hope

[catatomic]

With all this fear that the United States is wasted, fear usually motivates people to want to work. However, when fear gets in the way of thinking there's any way out at all, many simply stop caring. So I thought I'd write a thread for people who want to talk about hope, not fear. Hope is more urgent than fear, I think.

Now we could be finding new stars, stopping comets, or at least colonizing mars, these as protection, and when we think of how easy it would be to join together in an act of love to accomplish these things, it really doesn't make survival seem that at odds with reality.

So, starting with what's urgent, the fiscal mess.

We can kick the can down the road by making worse and worse goals, leading to the worser of martial law.

We can man up and recover as a country to help the world as well.

Or we can just kick the bucket the first time we get a chance, leading to a better of martial law.

In martial law, we could have all our energy tapped ourselves, a gun for every citizen, and the ability to weather a storm for awhile, but if it's about debt martial law would be the end of it.

But for those who fear safety nets, there is a lot further along we can go before we simply die off the earth.

We seem to always be in paradise no matter what happens, but that doesn't make it impossible to bleed out some of our lives responsibly to get back after kicking the can some more. We can also disguise ourselves so no one need be alienated for doing what they consider responsibility, and that won't upset our sensibilities.

Then, as in all wars, offense will trump defense, and everyone well be sold self-protection. We can have minimal maneuvering room and try to advance everyone's dreams Necessity and cramped-ness will lead to invention.

Finally, when science dies out long after good and evil, we can have different family systems, like cloning, cryogenics, and resurrection, and nature will allow for the strongest to stake their claim among the weakness.

But look, All of this appears descent, and it is all available to move back up from.

As Obama said, "Our way is harder but it leads to a better place. We have further to go, but we're going together." Of course it would be better to go up not down.

I would like to see positive posts about the world getting better. Just the other day on the newshour they made robots for autism and elderly that took 3/4 of physician's time out from caring for a patient.

 

[Wiseacre]

Some remarks about the fiscal mess and the future: Times change and sometimes so do people. When faced with hard times and tough choices, people can eventually change their ways and work themselves out of big trouble. It may take a really bad depression, maybe more than one, before people accept that individually and collectively they have to pay their bills instead of leaving them for future generations to deal with. That's sad, but perhaps necessary to get most people on board with being responsible for themselves. Right now we're split fairly evenly over what should be done and how to do it. Doesn't look like we're going to be ready anytime soon to work together, the differences are too great. But at some point we'll begin to expect more out of ourselves and our politicians, and that's when we'll really get going again.

 

[catatomic]

You guys are right man, always talking about who has political leverage and not about solving the problems. Is there a way through it?

 

[Tech_Esq]

Chief, I think we expect plenty out of our politicians, but we get damned little and have no recourse except the ballot box and it offers precious little relief.

Not that I'm a big prognosticator, but we'll find no relief head the direction we're about to go for the next for years. We could find ourselves worse off in another two. Right now there is a bit of a stalemate which is about the most we can hope for when the alternative is systematic deconstruction of the institutions of this country.

We are definitely at a decision point. The sooner we make it, the sooner we can all get on with our lives and make the decisions consequent, that we need to make. We are choosing whether we would like to live in a European style social democracy or an American Constitutional Republic. We can't have both (which is the lie we've been living for nearly 80 years), we have to pick. If we don't pick the latter, I'm out of here. I don't know about the rest of you.

 

[1Templar]

Springs a new.

 

[Mr. H.]

We should all bob for hope, like apples floating in a bucket hurt.

 

[catatomic]

Humanity is uniquely given the ability to plan, which is our greatest strength and greatest weakness. Strength because we are not in a routine we didn't pick, and weakness because we always have limited information to decide things. I predict we will have a very sore battle over the deficit and human life in 2014.

I don't ask anyone to post in this thread if you don't want to, but I encourage everyone to try to think of ideas as much as you can, because all we've got might just be enough to save us.

 

[jasonnfree]

I think both sides - right and left would agree that getting money out of politics could be a necessary and realistic start instead of each of us trying to convince the other side who's better.

 

[catatomic]

I think both sides - right and left would agree that getting money out of politics could be a necessary and realistic start instead of each of us trying to convince the other side who's better.

Yes, yes! That's brilliant jasonnfree! I thought that was far away but it could be now!

We could take criminal prosecution, economic fairness, and promoting better value systems as our three pillars for government. We could collect only enough taxes for the debt interest (200 billion) and those programs, easily.

Criminal prosecution is cheap with policemen, and a concentrated effort could help them. Economic fairness takes care of all the people whining or complaining over being rich or being poor, and motivates people to want to try harder, knowing they will be rewarded for their work. Many people would feel fulfilled if they could help their fellow man act towards the good of society, with as much intellectual freedom as needed, and it is such virgin soil even today.
Brilliant! And thanks to all the rest of you.

 

[Grandma]

There are several organizations dedicated to getting the money out of politics.

Here's one:

Get Money Out of Politics | United Republic | Democracy Is Not For Sale

 

[catatomic]

From Reuters:

State Of The Union 2013: From One Night Stand to Committed Relationship | Reuters

 

[catatomic]

I think both sides - right and left would agree that getting money out of politics could be a necessary and realistic start instead of each of us trying to convince the other side who's better.

I told you that was brilliant, and no I hadn't thought of that. The POTUS spent about 3/4 of his state of the Union address on 'keeping money out of politics!'

 

[catatomic]

The stock market is rising, which means investors are confident the future is better than the past.

 

[jwoodie]

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

 

[PaulS1950]

There is a difference between hope and blindness.
If hope is to mean anything then you have to act to make it happen.
Hoping it will be OK and doing nothing is a futile exercise in self-deception.

 

[catatomic]

It also depends what you hope for. If everyone hopes to continue living lavish livestyles without caring for each other, the government will bend down and sign it.

(Remember I said, "We seem to always be in paradise no matter what happens, but that doesn't make it impossible to bleed out some of our lives responsibly to get back after kicking the can some more. We can also disguise ourselves so no one need be alienated for doing what they consider responsibility, and that won't upset our sensibilities.")

 

[oldernwiser]

It also depends what you hope for. If everyone hopes to continue living lavish livestyles without caring for each other, the government will bend down and sign it.

(Remember I said, "We seem to always be in paradise no matter what happens, but that doesn't make it impossible to bleed out some of our lives responsibly to get back after kicking the can some more. We can also disguise ourselves so no one need be alienated for doing what they consider responsibility, and that won't upset our sensibilities.")

Our current economic model has a particularly nasty flaw in it. When the government asks the Fed Bank to print a dollar, it's a loan from that bank. That means there's a debt incurred by all of us for every dollar we trade for our labor. If we all gave every penny back to the Fed right now, we would still owe the bank money that no longer existed. How does this make sense?

I've been doing a lot of research into resource-based economics as a replacement for the cash based system we use now. I'm only 40% sold on it so far, but it does look like it could possibly be the way that we can have our cake and eat it too. Based on that model, communities trade resources such as raw materials and technology to produce exactly what they need as they need it. Efficiency isn't profit motivated, instead, it's motivated by the personal needs of the community which is far more powerful overall.

We have the resources on this planet to feed, clothe, and shelter every inhabitant tomorrow if we wanted to. It seems to me that this becomes even easier when we remove the question "What's in it for me" and substitute that with "How does this make my community better".

I don't believe that we can continue along the path that we're on right now for much longer. The very society that we modeled our own from was choked out of prominence bythe very same forces we're seeing today. It would be totally unrealistic (and likely insanity) to assume that ours will fare any better. So, now would be a good time to start thinking, at least, about where we could change to a system which can sustain itself for a longer period of time.

If anyone is interested, there are some interesting sites with MUCH more info:

The Zeitgeist Movement Global
The Venus Project

 

[PaulS1950]

To make a different base for the economy you have to change the people - fundamentally - to use only what they need and leave what they want (don't need) on the table for others. The attitude people (as a whole in general terms) have today will not work in a system that requires work in exchange for goods and services. Most are too used to thinking that they are owed much more than they need and that working for it is unnecessary.

 

[oldernwiser]

To make a different base for the economy you have to change the people - fundamentally - to use only what they need and leave what they want (don't need) on the table for others. The attitude people (as a whole in general terms) have today will not work in a system that requires work in exchange for goods and services. Most are too used to thinking that they are owed much more than they need and that working for it is unnecessary.

I have a fundamental problem with this statement. It seems to be a twist to the common lament that some aren't being paid nearly as much as they feel they're worth. And maybe they aren't, given that median income levels have been in decline.

I do agree with you that making a change, people have to change their way of thinking. That's the biggest hurdle. But, the system we have now is exactly what you described - a trade of labor for goods and services. What needs to change is the medium of that exchange.

 

[catatomic]

Thanks, that is so cool of you two. Likes for you.

I heard in an article today that old people last longer when they are pessimistic, so let's try to cheer up our grandma as much as we can.