Homosexuality as a Density-Dependent Social Response?

[JBeukema]

Your thoughts on an examination of homosexuality as, in whole or in part, a density-dependent negative feedback mechanism in humans, not unlike its function as such in other animal species?

 

[Steerpike]

I don't see any real evidence of it.

 

[rdean]

A guy being close to me makes me want to.....

Are you sure? Because I must be the exception to the rule.

 

[JBeukema]

Are either of you actually familiar with the relevant ethological studies?

 

[Steerpike]

i'm familiar with density-dependent feedback mechanisms and how they work. Do you have anything to support your proposition regarding homosexuality in humans?

 

[JBeukema]

You have any evidence that humans are magically exempt from that which applies to other primates?

 

[Steerpike]

You have any evidence that humans are magically exempt from that which applies to other primates?

I see...you state a proposition, and now you want me to provide negative evidence against it (and worse yet, apparently it has to be magical in nature). I thought you actually had something to discuss here, but apparently you just threw that subject line out there without anything of substance to say about it.

Next.

 

[Big Black Dog]

This thread is very, very queer...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You have any evidence that humans are magically exempt from that which applies to other primates?

I see...you state a proposition, and now you want me to provide negative evidence against it (and worse yet, apparently it has to be magical in nature). I thought you actually had something to discuss here, but apparently you just threw that subject line out there without anything of substance to say about it.

Next.

He seems to be doing that lately, I think all the studying has blown out his las brain cell.

 

[rdean]

This thread is very, very queer...

And I thought it was quite "gay".

 

[konradv]

Your thoughts on an examination of homosexuality as, in whole or in part, a density-dependent negative feedback mechanism in humans, not unlike its function as such in other animal species?

Got cite to something we can read? I googled the title of this thread and got one hit. This thread!!!

 

[Steerpike]

Your thoughts on an examination of homosexuality as, in whole or in part, a density-dependent negative feedback mechanism in humans, not unlike its function as such in other animal species?

Got cite to something we can read? I googled the title of this thread and got one hit. This thread!!!

A density-dependent factor is one that becomes more significant as the size of a population of biological organisms increases. Negative feedback in terms of population size would serve to reduce population size.

The question here is essentially whether homosexuality is a biological factor that becomes more prevalent as population size increases in order to keep size in check. And more specifically, whether it functions that way in human society.

 

[Ravi]

Your thoughts on an examination of homosexuality as, in whole or in part, a density-dependent negative feedback mechanism in humans, not unlike its function as such in other animal species?

Doubtful...you could "justify" anything with that conclusion, including murder.

Some people just prefer sex in a certain way.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Your thoughts on an examination of homosexuality as, in whole or in part, a density-dependent negative feedback mechanism in humans, not unlike its function as such in other animal species?

note: there have been gay people in populations with an overabundance of men/women. think about a population with an oversupply of women having gay men? is this nature's way of enforcing lesbianism?

Considering most everyone but you knows the familiar stories about 'gay' medicine men in tribes that had the run of vast areas of land with plenty of resources, I'd say the thoughts most people have upon reading your OP follow this line of thinking:

Is JBeuke a complete moron and if so is this nature's way of thinning the herd?

 

[Steerpike]

Your thoughts on an examination of homosexuality as, in whole or in part, a density-dependent negative feedback mechanism in humans, not unlike its function as such in other animal species?

Doubtful...you could "justify" anything with that conclusion, including murder.

Some people just prefer sex in a certain way.

There are ways to investigate it, however. It occurs in other animals, so there's no reason to discount it off-hand. It may be that in certain situations, the same would occur in humans. But like I said in my original post, I don't see any evidence of it occurring in humans.

 

[Steerpike]

Considering most everyone but you knows the familiar stories about 'gay' medicine men in tribes that had the run of vast areas of land with plenty of resources, I'd say the thoughts most people have upon reading your OP follow this line of thinking:

I'm not an expert on the stats in this area, but I think you could have a baseline homosexual population at all times, and then and increase due to density-dependent factors. When I say I think you could have it, I mean it's theoretically possible.

Problem is, I don't see evidence to support it. And the countries that tend to have the highest homosexual populations, percentage-wise, are not those countries where resources are the scarcest or where density-dependent factors would be expected to come into play.

So it doesn't look like it happens in human, or if it does modern, technological humans have a society that doesn't provide the proper conditions for something like this to function.

 

[Ravi]

Your thoughts on an examination of homosexuality as, in whole or in part, a density-dependent negative feedback mechanism in humans, not unlike its function as such in other animal species?

Doubtful...you could "justify" anything with that conclusion, including murder.

Some people just prefer sex in a certain way.

There are ways to investigate it, however. It occurs in other animals, so there's no reason to discount it off-hand. It may be that in certain situations, the same would occur in humans. But like I said in my original post, I don't see any evidence of it occurring in humans.

How do you know why it happens in other animals?

 

[Steerpike]

Doubtful...you could "justify" anything with that conclusion, including murder.

Some people just prefer sex in a certain way.

There are ways to investigate it, however. It occurs in other animals, so there's no reason to discount it off-hand. It may be that in certain situations, the same would occur in humans. But like I said in my original post, I don't see any evidence of it occurring in humans.

How do you know why it happens in other animals?

With other animals, biologists have a lot of leeway in how they study a population, even to the point of studying under controlled conditions. So you can get a pretty good picture density-dependent behaviors in populations. There is a fair-amount out there on density-dependent sexual behaviors, and even physical changes, in animals.

With homosexuality, it's probably a bit more speculative, even in animal populations. Some biologists have put forward the theory that some animals adopt the behavior due to population stressors, but I don't know you can say it has been "proven." If the behavior correlates to population density or other stressors in a reproducible or predictable way, I'd say you've got a pretty good case.

I don't know the full state of the science on it at this point.

But even if we assume it is true in these other animals, it doesn't change the fact that there doesn't appear to be evidence of it in humans.

And even if it were true in humans, what difference would it make?

 

[Ravi]

There are ways to investigate it, however. It occurs in other animals, so there's no reason to discount it off-hand. It may be that in certain situations, the same would occur in humans. But like I said in my original post, I don't see any evidence of it occurring in humans.

How do you know why it happens in other animals?

With other animals, biologists have a lot of leeway in how they study a population, even to the point of studying under controlled conditions. So you can get a pretty good picture density-dependent behaviors in populations. There is a fair-amount out there on density-dependent sexual behaviors, and even physical changes, in animals.

With homosexuality, it's probably a bit more speculative, even in animal populations. Some biologists have put forward the theory that some animals adopt the behavior due to population stressors, but I don't know you can say it has been "proven." If the behavior correlates to population density or other stressors in a reproducible or predictable way, I'd say you've got a pretty good case.

I don't know the full state of the science on it at this point.

But even if we assume it is true in these other animals, it doesn't change the fact that there doesn't appear to be evidence of it in humans.

And even if it were true in humans, what difference would it make?

None whatsoever.

I think in the animal density study one would have to remove the homosexual animals and place them with the opposite sex exclusively to find out if there is any merit to the study.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Considering most everyone but you knows the familiar stories about 'gay' medicine men in tribes that had the run of vast areas of land with plenty of resources, I'd say the thoughts most people have upon reading your OP follow this line of thinking:

I'm not an expert on the stats in this area, but I think you could have a baseline homosexual population at all times, and then and increase due to density-dependent factors. When I say I think you could have it, I mean it's theoretically possible.

Problem is, I don't see evidence to support it. And the countries that tend to have the highest homosexual populations, percentage-wise, are not those countries where resources are the scarcest or where density-dependent factors would be expected to come into play.

So it doesn't look like it happens in human, or if it does modern, technological humans have a society that doesn't provide the proper conditions for something like this to function.

theoretically possible?

most everything is theoretically possible in some way or another. not all possible theories are created equal.