Homeschooling? Thinking of? Indispensable

[Annie]

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/HSBCompanyBlog/66240/

 

[William Joyce]

I fully endorse homeschooling as a big rusty wrench flung into the gear-heart of the NWO.

Now how about we start up HOME COLLEGING? It would be cheaper and you could nix the left-wing propaganda, which is to say, 90 percent of the current material.

I guess the problem would be that nobody over 18 wants to live at home.

OK, let me work on this idea.

 

[Nienna]

I think homeschooling is a wonderful thing. To those opposed to it because it takes children out of a "diverse environment," I say :tng: !

In Ohio law, the parent has the right to decide on an appropriate education for his/her children. I don't think the government has any business deciding what morals & values your children need to embrace. That is a parent's right.

 

[liberalogic]

It's funny that when it comes to parents and children, then the government has no right to impose moral values. But when the hot social issues of today arise, then the government has the right to be "moral." That seems to be a bit contradictory.

Whatever the case, though, you have the right to decide whether you should homeschool or send your child to "traditional school." While I have strong opinions about the lack of education going on in schools today, I still feel that the child needs not just the academic training, but social training. Intelligence is not the only ingredient to success. How do you expect your kids to interact in business, sales, or any other type of job if they have little exposure, on their own, to peers?

 

[5stringJeff]

It's funny that when it comes to parents and children, then the government has no right to impose moral values. But when the hot social issues of today arise, then the government has the right to be "moral." That seems to be a bit contradictory.

Whatever the case, though, you have the right to decide whether you should homeschool or send your child to "traditional school." While I have strong opinions about the lack of education going on in schools today, I still feel that the child needs not just the academic training, but social training. Intelligence is not the only ingredient to success. How do you expect your kids to interact in business, sales, or any other type of job if they have little exposure, on their own, to peers?

Much homeschooling happens in co-ops, where there is social interaction with peers, though on a smaller scale.

 

[Nienna]

Much homeschooling happens in co-ops, where there is social interaction with peers, though on a smaller scale.

Exactly. While some kids are sequestered from society, many homeschoolers take advantage of the lack of time constraints to actually explore the world around them in a very hands-on way. They are free to visit many environments, many different people groups. The home-schoolers group in my area (Home School Cool Kids) is actually as big a group of peers as you would find in a parochial classroom. They volunteer at a local nursing home, as well as visit a special education center. This group of kids is made up of gifted children to very slow-learners, so there is a range of intellectual levels. They have visited museums as well as toured local businesses. I think it is a common misconception that homeschooled kids aren't as well socialized as regular school kids. Some studies have shown them to be better socialized in terms of manners.

And Shyers, from the secular perspective of his research, looked at how homeschooled children treat other children. Shyers found no significant difference between his two groups in scores on the Children's Assertive Behavior Scale. But direct observation by trained observers, using a "blind" procedure, found that home-schooled children had significantly fewer problem behaviors, as measured by the Child Observation Checklist's Direct Observation Form, than traditionally schooled children when playing in mixed groups of children from both kinds of schooling backgrounds. This observational study was reported in some detail in the 1992 Associated Press article. Shyers concluded that the hypothesis that contact with adults, rather than contact with other children, is most important in developing social skills in children is supported by these data.

The same year that Shyers completed his doctoral degree thesis research on homeschooling socialization, Thomas Smedley completed master's degree research at Radford University in Virginia, with a similar experimental design. Smedley compared twenty home-schooled children to thirteen public school children, matching the children as best he could by relevant demographic characteristics. His study used the Vineland Adaptive Behavior Scales, which evaluate communication skills, socialization, and daily living skills. Smedley found that the home-schooled children were more mature according to the scoring rubrics of the Vineland scales, scoring in the 84th percentile, while the public school children scored in the 27th percentile. Thus the Shyers finding supports a nearly simultaneous finding by a different researcher, who used a different social science evaluation procedure on a different sample population. Such a replicated finding is unusual in social science.

http://learninfreedom.org/socialization.html

 

[Annie]

It's funny that when it comes to parents and children, then the government has no right to impose moral values. But when the hot social issues of today arise, then the government has the right to be "moral." That seems to be a bit contradictory.

Whatever the case, though, you have the right to decide whether you should homeschool or send your child to "traditional school." While I have strong opinions about the lack of education going on in schools today, I still feel that the child needs not just the academic training, but social training. Intelligence is not the only ingredient to success. How do you expect your kids to interact in business, sales, or any other type of job if they have little exposure, on their own, to peers?

I wonder of you age? Schools have much to be said for them in 'toughening up' kids, little to do with actual socialization. That comes from home. If you check out homeschooling communities, boards, and chats, not to mention actual organizations, you will find lots of opportunities to socialize.

 

[Abbey Normal]

I wonder of you age? Schools have much to be said for them in 'toughening up' kids, little to do with actual socialization. That comes from home. If you check out homeschooling communities, boards, and chats, not to mention actual organizations, you will find lots of opportunities to socialize.

I would tend to agree. Besides a 1/2 hour lunch, my daughter, who is in public high school, tells me that she has almost zero time to socialize. They are intentionally rushed from class to class to avoid problems in the halls and stairways, It's in the extra-curricular activities where she gets to know people.

 

[Annie]

I would tend to agree. Besides a 1/2 hour lunch, my daughter, who is in public high school, tells me that she has almost zero time to socialize. They are intentionally rushed from class to class to avoid problems in the halls and stairways, It's in the extra-curricular activities where she gets to know people.

If the teacher is "in control" very little socialization in class, other than perhaps 'group dynamics'. Schools for the most part, from upper elementary on keep lunch/recess at the minimum, as this is where most conflicts occur.

 

[Hobbit]

You also have to understand that most homeschoolers go and interact with adults, rather than children. This interaction teaches the kids to talk to people in polite, formal tones so they don't show up to their first job interview with their pants buckled around their knees and calling the boss-to-be "homey."

 

[Annie]

You also have to understand that most homeschoolers go and interact with adults, rather than children. This interaction teaches the kids to talk to people in polite, formal tones so they don't show up to their first job interview with their pants buckled around their knees and calling the boss-to-be "homey."

Hmmm, I'm in contact/advising with 28 homeschooled students. All, I mean all 28 have ample interaction with age peers, in sports, arts, and extra curricular classes. In at least 1/2 of them, it includes attending classes in foreign languages/music/arts that parents felt were 'beyond' them.

 

[Hobbit]

Hmmm, I'm in contact/advising with 28 homeschooled students. All, I mean all 28 have ample interaction with age peers, in sports, arts, and extra curricular classes. In at least 1/2 of them, it includes attending classes in foreign languages/music/arts that parents felt were 'beyond' them.

Let me restate. Most homeschoolers have significant contact with adults, rather than exclusively other children.

 

[liberalogic]

I wonder of you age? Schools have much to be said for them in 'toughening up' kids, little to do with actual socialization. That comes from home. If you check out homeschooling communities, boards, and chats, not to mention actual organizations, you will find lots of opportunities to socialize.

When I say socialization, I mean friendships, acquaintances, as well as just working with people consistently every day...while diverse activities (like you mention the volunteer work (which really sounds great and is a good experience)), there is something about that consistent daily grind and consistent interaction that really teaches you to socialize in the context I define it...Yes, it can be challenging, it can be painful, but at the same time it can be rewarding-- all three of those attributes are important to maturity. And don't we want the students to be stable-- meaning won't we want them to have stable careers? Bouncing around from activity to activity is great in many ways, but lacks that essential stability as well. Also, do you see "toughening up" in school (and I hope we're not talking physically here) as a bad thing?

Sorry to throw so many questions in there, I just think this is such a constructive discussion.

As for my age, I'll let you take a stab at it.

 

[Nienna]

When I say socialization, I mean friendships, acquaintances, as well as just working with people consistently every day...while diverse activities (like you mention the volunteer work (which really sounds great and is a good experience)), there is something about that consistent daily grind and consistent interaction that really teaches you to socialize in the context I define it...Yes, it can be challenging, it can be painful, but at the same time it can be rewarding-- all three of those attributes are important to maturity. And don't we want the students to be stable-- meaning won't we want them to have stable careers? Bouncing around from activity to activity is great in many ways, but lacks that essential stability as well. Also, do you see "toughening up" in school (and I hope we're not talking physically here) as a bad thing?

Homeschoolers still have the opportunity to develop teamwork in activities like sports or extracurriculars. Many homeschoolers attend classes, like Kathianne mentioned, so they still have the experience of a traditional learning environment. Yes, you don't necessarily experience the cliques, etc. that kids experience in a school room. But I don't know that that is a bad thing. As for "toughening up," the process that I, personally, survived in high school was more traumatic than helpful. People don't act that bad in the real world, at least in my experience. Other people may certainly have had different experiences.

 

[dmp]

I've got a brother who homeschools his kids - seperate from the guy's other issues, his kids really need to get the hell out of the house. Very stunded social development.

 

[Annie]

Homeschoolers still have the opportunity to develop teamwork in activities like sports or extracurriculars. Many homeschoolers attend classes, like Kathianne mentioned, so they still have the experience of a traditional learning environment. Yes, you don't necessarily experience the cliques, etc. that kids experience in a school room. But I don't know that that is a bad thing. As for "toughening up," the process that I, personally, survived in high school was more traumatic than helpful. People don't act that bad in the real world, at least in my experience. Other people may certainly have had different experiences.

This is for both you and liberalogic. Kids are often cruel, for those on the receiving end, moreso than many can handle. For parents it's hard to tell what is 'normal' problems in getting along, what is actual bullying. Even well liked kids can be truly hurt in schools. It's so important for parents and teachers to listen to what the kids are saying.

It's also hard for teachers to tell which kids are just tattlers and which are being truly tortured. Kids that go through the latter are at serious risk of violence to themselves or others.

Friendships are important, but schools can break them down. There is nothing about homeschooling, with reasonable parents, that would prevent friendships forming and being maintained.

I'm not saying that schools are all bad, nor all homeschooling is great. Just that socialization is NOT necessarily what schools do best.

 

[Nienna]

I'm not saying that schools are all bad, nor all homeschooling is great. Just that socialization is NOT necessarily what schools do best.

 

[dmp]

Kids are often cruel, for those on the receiving end, moreso than many can handle. For parents it's hard to tell what is 'normal' problems in getting along, what is actual bullying. Even well liked kids can be truly hurt in schools. It's so important for parents and teachers to listen to what the kids are saying.

I Feel we often do our kids a dis-service by protecting them from adversity. My brother's kids went to a school where running on the playground was against the rules because some kid ran and tripped and (OH MY!!) 'hurt himself'. Big whoop-de-shit.

Yeah, I know - the rule was probably put in place because the klutz's folks threatened a lawsuit.

Still, Let our kids be teased. It's a good way to balance out all the 'Nobody loses, everyone is a winner' over-board self-esteem we cram down their throats.

 

[dmp]

p.s. - I'm reminded of my brother-in-law's daughter who was sent home with an assignment to list everything about themselves they were proud of. She was a bit troubled because she's been raised to be humble. Her only answer to the question was: "When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom." - if I recall correctly. I was VERY proud of her - her dad and mom were, too!

 

[Hobbit]

I Feel we often do our kids a dis-service by protecting them from adversity. My brother's kids went to a school where running on the playground was against the rules because some kid ran and tripped and (OH MY!!) 'hurt himself'. Big whoop-de-shit.

Yeah, I know - the rule was probably put in place because the klutz's folks threatened a lawsuit.

Still, Let our kids be teased. It's a good way to balance out all the 'Nobody loses, everyone is a winner' over-board self-esteem we cram down their throats.

There's a difference between self-esteem bullcrap and stopping the bullying. Let me cover what I mean.

In the ideal school system in my head, kids who are not as talented will fall behind those who are. Those who fail to work will fail their classes. Forget their self-esteem. Better they learn the lesson of failure now instead of wondering why their mean old bosses keep firing them just because they don't actually work.

Bullying, on the other hand, should never occur, anywhere, anytime. I was on the recieving end of a buttload of bullying throughout school. It had made me a little tougher than most, and a better fighter, but if I had my 'druthers, I'd have gone without. Public school was one of the most miserable places I'd ever been. When I went to private school, I could actually get teachers to intervene on my behalf, and the other kids were better behaved, in general. At public school, it didn't happen unless a teacher saw it happen. They were so eager to avoid attention that they'd let some of their students live in constant fear of being beaten up. It was only when I fought back that anybody got in trouble, and I was among them. According to the school administration, I was a troublemaker because I supposedly had a short temper and would get into fights at the drop of a hat. What was actually occuring was that the administration wouldn't do anything about the bullies, so I did. In fact, the administration was so incompetant that when I fought one particular guy, he wouldn't get in trouble, because, according to the handbook, if he got in any more recorded trouble, he'd be expelled. I just wondered why they had expulsion in the handbook if they never used it.

As administrations are less and less willing to intervene on behalf of their students, bullies get crueler and crueler, until some otherwise good kids feel so much despair that they show up with a gun one day and kill a dozen people including themselves. As for me, the administration was almost right. Yes, I am a fighter, but it's a self made prophecy as they made me that way. When I think somebody is threatening me physically, I'll get physical, and in a way that's really effective. To this day, though, I have anger issues, especially when it concerns things I don't really have any control over. I've even tried therapy, but nothing seems to work. No, bullying does nobody any good, and schools need to crack down on it. I, personally, have done my part by sticking up for the bullied whenever I see them, but I don't work at a school, so my effect is minimal at best.