Homeowner Told To Take Down Nativity From Lawn

[manu1959]

OK Avatar... correct me if I am wrong....

My understanding is that a contract cannot be enforced if it violates the constitution or specifically obliges one of the parties to break the Law. That is, if I signed a contract to waive my right to vote, or to free speech, or if I signed a contract to commit murder, the contract is null and void and not legally enforceable.

Regardless if the contract stated "no nativity sets" in plain English, a court challenge would quickly find in favor of the homeowner.

I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on USMB!

that is my understanding of california contract law can't speak for any other state

 

[Bonnie]

Austin has neighborhood associations which require no dues to belong to yet the associations are given tremendous weight with the city council. They can present recommendations to the city council if you belong to it or not. I found that you had better be present at the neighborhood association meetings or they will very likely misrepresent the preferences of the community to ensure the success of a select few who can manipulate the entire process. Ya gotta love a liberal citys' perception of individual rights.

Absolutely, the condo association where I used to live was taking kickbacks from a particular disposal company for the bid, and where my friend lives the association had a hostile takeover and ousted one of the members who held his seat for 10 years and was doing a great job....He was keeping maintenance fees down and still maintianing the grounds and snow removal very efficiently, now the place is getting run down because the good contracts were let go. It's ridiculous!!

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Austin has neighborhood associations which require no dues to belong to yet the associations are given tremendous weight with the city council. They can present recommendations to the city council if you belong to it or not. I found that you had better be present at the neighborhood association meetings or they will very likely misrepresent the preferences of the community to ensure the success of a select few who can manipulate the entire process. Ya gotta love a liberal citys' perception of individual rights.

Which is why we wind up with rulings like Kelo v. New London.

 

[MissileMan]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051129/LIFESTYLE04/511290380/1005/LIFESTYLE



You've got me on board as saying this is bullshit.

Ditto!

 

[MissileMan]

OK Avatar... correct me if I am wrong....

My understanding is that a contract cannot be enforced if it violates the constitution or specifically obliges one of the parties to break the Law. That is, if I signed a contract to waive my right to vote, or to free speech, or if I signed a contract to commit murder, the contract is null and void and not legally enforceable.

Regardless if the contract stated "no nativity sets" in plain English, a court challenge would quickly find in favor of the homeowner.

I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on USMB!

The contract didn't say "no nativity scenes". It said displays on the front lawn had to be approved by the neighborhood association. If the homeowner had followed the rules and obtained permission for the nativity scene prior to it being put up, when the neighbor bitched, the association could have said "Too Bad".

 

[The ClayTaurus]

The contract didn't say "no nativity scenes". It said displays on the front lawn had to be approved by the neighborhood association. If the homeowner had followed the rules and obtained permission for the nativity scene prior to it being put up, when the neighbor bitched, the association could have said "Too Bad".

This is the classic case of a rule that is rarely followed and rarely invoked, yet exists none-the-less and ends up being used inappropriately by someone with a grudge.

Another interesting fact, did you know that in Michigan it is illegal for a man and a woman to cohabitate outside of marriage? You can be fined 1000 bucks for it.

And, if you are divorced and living with your ex-spouse, you can be charged with a felony.

Both have "lude and lascivious" language in their description. Another example of a rule/law that is never enforced, but could be used to create a headache for someone if you were so inclined to push the issue.

 

[dmp]

The contract didn't say "no nativity scenes". It said displays on the front lawn had to be approved by the neighborhood association. If the homeowner had followed the rules and obtained permission for the nativity scene prior to it being put up, when the neighbor bitched, the association could have said "Too Bad".

Do you feel it's just coincidence the nativity was the only item complained about? Even in light of the complainer's comment: 'nobody should publically display their beliefs' etc?

 

[MissileMan]

Do you feel it's just coincidence the nativity was the only item complained about? Even in light of the complainer's comment: 'nobody should publically display their beliefs' etc?

That was the complainers sentiment, not the associations. My point was that with prior permission from the association, the motive of any complaint would have been moot.

 

[Bullypulpit]

It's bullshit, but that's what happens when you move into a neighborhood with a homeowners association.

 

[dmp]

That was the complainers sentiment, not the associations. My point was that with prior permission from the association, the motive of any complaint would have been moot.

Likewise, if the HOA had a pair, they could have told the Complainer to shove it.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

That was the complainers sentiment, not the associations. My point was that with prior permission from the association, the motive of any complaint would have been moot.

I think what he's trying to say is there was a way that this family could have gone about putting up this display that would have alleviated the potential for this happening. Was it reasonable to expect that something like this would happen? No, although it may begin to be. It's never a bad idea to make sure you have your bases covered, although it's sad that you would have to think about all your bases being covered for displaying a nativity scene on your private property...

It's also a shame that they keep the neigbor's identity a secret.

 

[GotZoom]

I think what he's trying to say is there was a way that this family could have gone about putting up this display that would have alleviated the potential for this happening. Was it reasonable to expect that something like this would happen? No, although it may begin to be. It's never a bad idea to make sure you have your bases covered, although it's sad that you would have to think about all your bases being covered for displaying a nativity scene on your private property...

It's also a shame that they keep the neigbor's identity a secret.

Again, if the HOA had cojones, they would back-date a letter and tell the complainer to go jump.

They have to keep the identity confidential - too much liablity if word got out and problems happened.

 

[Mr. P]

Likewise, if the HOA had a pair, they could have told the Complainer to shove it.

Nope, cuz then they wouldn't be doing the job they were obligated to do,
enforce the "rules".

 

[Bonnie]

ClayTaurus..This is the classic case of a rule that is rarely followed and rarely invoked, yet exists none-the-less and ends up being used inappropriately by someone with a grudge.

I think that sums it up well!!

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Again, if the HOA had cojones, they would back-date a letter and tell the complainer to go jump.

They have to keep the identity confidential - too much liablity if word got out and problems happened.

Backdating would definitely been the smart way for the HOA to go, and again it brings me back to wondering if the family had other problems that aren't being mentioned. But, then again, I've learned to never underestimate the lack of intelligence of any "association".

 

[Hobbit]

I get what Taurus is saying. There's a rule requiring tasteful landscaping without cluttered lawns to ensure that the neighborhood is "pretty." It prevents things like what the owners did to my house before we moved in (the front lawn was overgrown and took 18 months of slow work to clear out). The nativity scene doesn't really violate the rule, but one guy is stretching to rule to try to say that it does. If you want a larger parallel, it's like a court ruling that a nativity display at city hall violate's the first ammendment. The rule's been there for a long time and this has never violated it before, but some yahoo decided to stretch the rule to encompass his agenda.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

I get what Taurus is saying. There's a rule requiring tasteful landscaping without cluttered lawns to ensure that the neighborhood is "pretty." It prevents things like what the owners did to my house before we moved in (the front lawn was overgrown and took 18 months of slow work to clear out). The nativity scene doesn't really violate the rule, but one guy is stretching to rule to try to say that it does. If you want a larger parallel, it's like a court ruling that a nativity display at city hall violate's the first ammendment. The rule's been there for a long time and this has never violated it before, but some yahoo decided to stretch the rule to encompass his agenda.

Exactly. Now, if the nativity scene (or whatever display) was excessively tacky, ornate, flashy, or gaudy, I could understand the neighborhood looking for the house to reduce their display from being such a sight for sore eyes. But the pictures clearly show that this display is no worse visually than the people who have giant blow-up snow men or multiple mechanical chistmas light reindeer.

It shows you how dumb the complainer and the HOA are, if they had any sense to them they would have never mentioned the bit about how the complainer took offense to someone displaying their beliefs. It's all under the bridge now anyhow, the wrong has been righted.

 

[007]

Ahhhh the almighty neighborhood association!
I’ll never buy property anywhere that has one, and this is a good example of why.

Me neither. NOBODY is going to dictate to me what can and can't do with my own property that I paid for with my own sweat and toil.

I'm looking for a house now. I have five more months left on my apartment lease. I've already told my banker and realestate agent, "don't go near anywhere that has a neighborhood association".

 

[Bonnie]

Apparently Hannity is now taking up their cause as the fmaily was on his show last night.

 

[HorhayAtAMD]

You've got me on board as saying this is bullshit.

Ditto. It sounds like everyone in this case, even the ACLU, and even lefty Canadians! think this is bullshit.