Homeland Terrorists

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Annie, Feb 1, 2004.

  1. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    These are the types of people that make me very uneasy. In some ways it seems they were targeting the same targets, yet every state faces threats from their ilk:

    http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/nation/7836911.htm

    Posted on Fri, Jan. 30, 2004



    Feds probe cyanide in Texas terror case

    By LISA FALKENBERG
    Associated Press

    NOONDAY, Texas - William Krar and Judith Bruey assembled a frightening arsenal in three rented storage units in this East Texas town, and federal authorities are trying to figure out why.

    A raid in April found nearly two pounds of a cyanide compound and other chemicals that could create enough poisonous gas to kill everyone inside a space as large as a big-chain bookstore or a small-town civic center.

    Authorities also discovered nearly half a million rounds of ammunition, more than 60 pipe bombs, machine guns, silencers and remote-controlled bombs disguised as briefcases, plus pamphlets on how to make chemical weapons, and anti-Semitic, anti-black and anti-government books.

    The findings have led to one of the most extensive domestic-terrorism investigations since the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing.

    Federal investigators believe conspirators may remain free, and one question lingers: What did the couple intend to do with the weapons?

    "There's no other reason for anyone to possess that type of device other than to kill people," said Brit Featherston, a federal prosecutor and the government's anti-terrorism coordinator in Texas' eastern district. "The arsenal found in those searches had the capability of terrorizing a lot of people."

    In November, Krar, 62, pleaded guilty to possessing a dangerous chemical weapon. He could go to prison, but the law does not specify a minimum or maximum. Bruey, 54, pleaded guilty to conspiracy to possess illegal weapons and could get up to five years in prison. The couple remain in jail. Sentencing is expected sometime in February.

    Krar and Bruey moved to a house in Tyler from New Hampshire about two years ago, though federal authorities do not know why.

    They soon rented space at Noonday Storage and for more than a year visited their units each morning, spending hours unloading U-hauls of military surplus items or picking through piles of bathing suits and beer coolers they said they resold at shops and markets.

    "We never had any problems out of them and never suspected anything out of them," said Teresa Staples, who owns the storage business in this community of 500 people about 100 miles southeast of Dallas.

    A mistake led the FBI to Krar two years ago.

    Krar mailed a package to a self-described militia member in New Jersey. The package included several phony documents - U.N. and Pentagon ID cards, a Social Security card, birth certificates from three states - and a note: "We would hate to have this fall into the wrong hands."

    But that was exactly what happened.

    The package was mistakenly delivered to a man in New York City, who notified authorities. It was traced back to Krar, and the intended recipient, Edward Feltus, 56, of Old Bridge, N.J., pleaded guilty to aiding and abetting the transportation of false identification documents. He could get up to 15 years in prison.

    Krar's attorney, Tonda Curry, acknowledges that Krar owned illegal weapons, but said there is no evidence he planned to use them.

    "It was not a situation where they were at arm's reach, ready to respond to some invasion. They were miles away stored," she said. "Nothing I've seen from the government or from him indicates that the United States as a country had any reason to be afraid of Bill Krar."

    But federal investigators believe Krar's past behavior indicates his potential for domestic terrorism.

    In 1985, Krar was arrested in New Hampshire for impersonating a law enforcement officer, according to the FBI. He stopped paying federal income taxes in 1989. His ties to New Hampshire's white supremacist and anti-government militia groups in the mid-1990s were investigated by federal agents.

    Firefighters battling a blaze at a New Hampshire storage building in June 2001 discovered thousands of rounds of ammunition and four guns. Some belonged to Krar.

    An employee at another New Hampshire storage company told investigators she feared Krar because he was "wicked anti-American," often ranting about government corruption and how he hated police officers and Americans in general because they were "money-hungry grubs," according to an FBI affidavit.

    Last January, a Tennessee state trooper stopped Krar for a traffic violation and found in his rental car two handguns, a grenade, handcuffs, a gas mask, 16 knives and 40 wine-like bottles filled with an unknown substance.

    Most curious were handwritten notes that listed "meeting places," including hospitals or Wal-Marts in Pennsylvania, Virginia, Tennessee, Mississippi and Louisiana. The notes also outlined a code for referring to the level of danger, from "Lots of light storms are predicted" to "Tornadoes are expected in our area - Things very hot. Lay low or change your travel plans."

    Krar told investigators the code was part a plan to help his girlfriend escape her ex-husband.

    Despite the warning signs, Krar was not fully investigated until the fake documents went to the wrong address. And even that red flag may have been ignored if not for the heightened attention after Sept. 11, Featherston said.

    Some contend the government is so focused on foreign terror threats that it overlooks domestic dangers.

    "I have no doubt whatsoever that had these men been affiliated with al-Qaida, we would have heard more," said Daniel Levitas, author of the book "The Terrorist Next Door: The Militia Movement and the Radical Right." "There is something of a blind spot within the Justice Department in Washington, D.C., when it comes to the violent potential of America's own homegrown version of al-Qaida."

    Featherston said hundreds of subpoenas were issued and the Texas case was investigated just as thoroughly as foreign cases.

    "There's international terrorism and domestic terrorism, but they're all terrorism," he said. "I don't care which one it is or what color their skin is. If their intention is to do harm to the citizens of this country, then all the resources necessary from the local level to the federal level will be put into the case."
     
  2. AtlantaWalter
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    AtlantaWalter Member

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  3. Moi
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    I agree- these people are scary.

    As for you, AW, I suppose they are no different from the founding fathers, except that we're now in the british position. I suppose british were too egotistical to be scared of the rebels thinking they were not a big threat.

    However, we know better. These people are a threat to a decent society. And, good or bad, I support the government of the united states and I still think there are many non-violent ways to effect change. I hope that the ludicrous fringe elements don't try violence...if they did, I'd be more than happy to leash the dogs of war of this country on them just like we did in Iraq to keep my government and country moving in the right direction.
     
  4. AtlantaWalter
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    I concur. I go to some of the militia type forums to get info on guns sometimes and some of those folks are scary. I believe that, for the most part, they are merely patriotic Americans who are a bit more vocal than most folks but, as in any large group of people, there are always a few that aren't wrapped tight enough.
    There is always the threat of another Tim McVeigh or DC sniper looming around the corner.
     
  5. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Atlanta Walker

    'Patriotic Americans', and discussing this kind of weaponry and information collecting? Sorry no way I can buy into that oxymoron.

    If you mean by 'patriots' you are referring to those who are concerned about losing their 2nd amendment rights; who think the government is spending/redistributing too much of their hard earned money; that they don't have enough voice in the legislature-state or federal; that the judges are making law; etc.

    Unlike the British, who refused to take the colonists complaints seriously, we do have representatives in Congress-VOTE for God's Sake; run for office or nominate someone you think will do better; actively work for organizations like NRA, if that's your thing; join the Libertarian Party, more and more they are not 'free drug' nuts, but rather strong on 2nd amendment rights, fiscal responsibility in government, and backing the military-vets and all.

    I'm not that concerned with guns, though I oppose most controls , especially conceal & carry laws. I still feel more comfortable in the GOP, though my Libertarian leanings are growing.

    What these types of terrorists are advocating is anarchy, which is every bit as unjustified and dangerous as the SDS in the 60's.
     
  6. AtlantaWalter
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    "What these types of terrorists are advocating is anarchy, which is every bit as unjustified and dangerous as the SDS in the 60's."

    I have no problem with the utmost control over the types you mentioned above; nobody, for any reason needs, needs to be in possession of weaponry/poisons that could potentially kill hundreds of people. Some people are like feral dogs and just need to be put down before they harm someone.

    I also have no problem with an honest militia group. If they want to put on their camoflauge and run around the woods, get together and practice their marksmanship skills, or pass along other skills they may have learned in the service, that is fine with me, as long as they do not violate any laws. Unfortunately, I think most of the militia groups we see portrayed on the news are fringe groups that might at best be classified as "suspect" and at worst as "criminal". I think the problem with most of them is that while their group may have the highest standards, outstanding morals, and the best intentions, eventually they let someone they shouldn't join and that person gets caught breaking the law. That one person gives the rest of the group a bad name forever.

    There are governmental abuses, like when the government sniper shot Randy Weaver's wife in the head while she stood in the doorway of their cabin at Ruby Ridge holding her baby. The fiasco at Waco,Texas is another one that should never have happened.

    The government does in fact improperly distribute hard earned tax dollars. I read an article last week where, when the court system in Brazil didn't care to take the advice of the U.S., we cut off the $17,000,000 we had been giving them to operate their court system. Why the hell should I have to work 6 days a week, 12 hour shifts to pay-off a judge in Brazil? Look at the millions in foreign aid we waste. Why do we give Israel $5,000,000,000 a year?

    Judges may not make the laws but they certainly, some of them, abuse their position. Awarding some moron $1,000,000 because she spilled hot coffee on her lap is ludicrous. The frivilous lawsuits that judges should throw out but don't are getting out of control. I read every week where some criminal, who should go to jail, gets a slap on the wrist and is allowed to go free to committ more crime.

    While I doubt you could find anyone, anywhere, more in favor of the 2nd Amendment than I am, I realize that times and people have changed. Where is says "the right of the people... shall not be infringed", I hardly think that everyone today should be allowed to own a gun and certainly not a machinegun. There are too many fools and morons out there who are too stupid to breathe if it weren't an automatic thing, so why should they be allowed to endanger my family with a gun.

    Also, I do vote M'lady; I also write my congressmen and have never been shy about letting them know how I feel about things. I, like you, am also finding leaning more towards the Libertarian point of view since I believe the two traditional parties are pulled too many different ways by the special interest groups to actually achieve anything any more.

    I am as against anyone who would destroy the American way of life as a person can be, especially those who would do so by violent means. I do enjoy the various forums though because, before the internet, I never would have quessed there was so many people out there wanting to share so much information, some bad, some good. I am just thankful that I live in a country that allows such. BTW, did you know that in today's Germany, it is a jailable offense to even say, much less put on the internet, that one believes that just maybe 6,000,000 jews weren't killed in the holocaust? Thank the powers that be we don't live in a country that limits freedom of speech like that. Damned good thing we saved them from those mean old Nazis that wanted to limit their freedom!!!
     
  7. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    Well it seems we agree on many issues. I too have been surprised overall, by the diversity of opionion and general thoughtfulness of most posters on these forums, yes even Psychoblues, bamthin, and (arrrggg) spillmind.

    There are a few that have been twisting 'freedoms' and 'liberties' into their version of hate. I have little tolerance for them. They have managed to reactivate some of my more liberal tendencies for the most part, but even have pushed me to wishing they were 'censored' since I would love to pretend that such idiots do not exist. Alas, they do.
     
  8. AtlantaWalter
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    I am just glad that we are able to converse and share opinions m'lady. I can appreciate you point of view. It does amaze me to find so many people that think the same as I do and yet the country is still getting more screwed up by the day. It's a shame my children and their children will never know the America I grew up in.
     
  9. Bullypulpit
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    Bullypulpit Senior Member

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    ...These domestic terrorists are rooted in ideologies born of fear and hatred. They have not, to my knowledge, provided any realistic solutions to the problems they are claiming to address beyond bullets and bombs. They will cheerfully murder anyone if they think it will advance their noble cause, be it racial purity, religious values, anti-abortion...etc.

    They are the ultimate end product of a deontological, deity based ethical system. The moral pay-off lies in some mythical, metaphysical after-life. And so long as they can justify their actions in the name of serving their favorite deity...They will carry out those actions up to and including murder. They are not the moral equivalents of America's Founding Fathers by any stretch of the imagination.
     
  10. AtlantaWalter
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    "They are the ultimate end product of a deontological, deity based ethical system. The moral pay-off lies in some mythical, metaphysical after-life."

    Are we talking about domestic terrorists or Saxon raiders????
     

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