Home improvement horror stories?

[Gunny]

I think it depends on the contractor. A guy came here, from a big company and he did have stuff on his truck but I'm sure the landlady was billed for the extras.

A smaller independant might not have that stuff readily available and probably worked it into the price if he did. No?

It depends on the job being done. A serivice truck might have all sorts of odds and ends on it because they never know what exactly they might need.

A construction truck is going to have a basic amount of fittings, conduit, wire, conduit benders, shovels, etc to get the basic job done. Normal practice is once a contract is signed, the subcontractor gets a "draw" (a percentage of what they are being paid) and purchases material for that specific job according to that job's plans.

There is however always odds and ends of material in the truck. But not 15-20 receptacles and switches. That goes beyond "odds -n- ends."

Taking it a step further, EVEN IF I had 15-20 receptacles and switches and their covers on my truck, I'm not giving them away. They were paid for at one time and to just give them away goes into the monetary LOSS column.

And yes, the size of the company matters as far as overhead is concerned. Smaller companies naturally have to play it closer to the cuff. An individual electrician even closer. The odds are, that larger company can use whatever over-ordered material they have on another job becuase they are turning them over at a fast pace; whereas, your individual is usually doing what we call "side work" (moonlighting) only when he can, and turnover is much, much slower.

Size also comes into play where the shop is concerned. A larger shop is gong to have a much larger, on-hand inventory than a smaller shop or some individual working out of his garage.

 

[nt250]

It depends on the job being done. A serivice truck might have all sorts of odds and ends on it because they never know what exactly they might need.

A construction truck is going to have a basic amount of fittings, conduit, wire, conduit benders, shovels, etc to get the basic job done. Normal practice is once a contract is signed, the subcontractor gets a "draw" (a percentage of what they are being paid) and purchases material for that specific job according to that job's plans.

There is however always odds and ends of material in the truck. But not 15-20 receptacles and switches. That goes beyond "odds -n- ends."

Taking it a step further, EVEN IF I had 15-20 receptacles and switches and their covers on my truck, I'm not giving them away. They were paid for at one time and to just give them away goes into the monetary LOSS column.

And yes, the size of the company matters as far as overhead is concerned. Smaller companies naturally have to play it closer to the cuff. An individual electrician even closer. The odds are, that larger company can use whatever over-ordered material they have on another job becuase they are turning them over at a fast pace; whereas, your individual is usually doing what we call "side work" (moonlighting) only when he can, and turnover is much, much slower.

Size also comes into play where the shop is concerned. A larger shop is gong to have a much larger, on-hand inventory than a smaller shop or some individual working out of his garage.

That should be included in the price of the job. I had one existing GFI outlet and one double light switch that worked the light and the fan. I had a second outlet added because I added a double sink vanity and I wanted an outlet for each sink. He put a brand new beige outlet in for the new outlet, but he put back the other two old ones. I don't blame the electrician that much, aside from the fact that I wished he had bothered to ask me. I was home. I talked to him about my two other problems which I paid him $50 dollars to fix. He never asked me. If he had, I would have paid him extra to do it. Instead I ended up paying Mr. Electric $110 to come out and do it after I tried to and botched it.

My bathroom job started out really well, but by the time it was almost done my contractor was so desperate to get paid that he did a lot of stupid things.

And I'm sorry, but if an electrician doesn't include the cost of outlets and switches in his bid, then that is just mind boggling.

 

[Gunny]

That should be included in the price of the job. I had one existing GFI outlet and one double light switch that worked the light and the fan. I had a second outlet added because I added a double sink vanity and I wanted an outlet for each sink. He put a brand new beige outlet in for the new outlet, but he put back the other two old ones. I don't blame the electrician that much, aside from the fact that I wished he had bothered to ask me. I was home. I talked to him about my two other problems which I paid him $50 dollars to fix. He never asked me. If he had, I would have paid him extra to do it. Instead I ended up paying Mr. Electric $110 to come out and do it after I tried to and botched it.

My bathroom job started out really well, but by the time it was almost done my contractor was so desperate to get paid that he did a lot of stupid things.

And I'm sorry, but if an electrician doesn't include the cost of outlets and switches in his bid, then that is just mind boggling.

It is only mind-boggling from your perspective of what you want. As I said stated before, many customers re-use existing devices to save on cost.

Again, you are seeing what you want, and not hearing what I am saying. The contractor puts the work up for bid. The work is decided by the contractor and YOU, not the subcontractor. IF the contractor includes replacing devices in the work, the electrician then includes the cost of material and man hours in his bid.

If, on the other hand, the work specifies re-using existing devices, that is what the electrical contractor bids on and that's what he does.

YOU should know what the contract specified since you presented the work to the contractor, right?

I probably would have asked. However, we are VERY big on doing EXACTLY what the plans state. Nothing more and nothing less, and the contractor has to sign off on all changes. If you had told me you wanted new devices and the plans said otherwise, I would STILL take it to the contractor. He's the one paying me.

Normally though, if you offer to buy the devices and I have to install them anyway, it isn't an issue with anyone.

 

[nt250]

It is only mind-boggling from your perspective of what you want. As I said stated before, many customers re-use existing devices to save on cost.

Again, you are seeing what you want, and not hearing what I am saying. The contractor puts the work up for bid. The work is decided by the contractor and YOU, not the subcontractor. IF the contractor includes replacing devices in the work, the electrician then includes the cost of material and man hours in his bid.

If, on the other hand, the work specifies re-using existing devices, that is what the electrical contractor bids on and that's what he does.

YOU should know what the contract specified since you presented the work to the contractor, right?

I probably would have asked. However, we are VERY big on doing EXACTLY what the plans state. Nothing more and nothing less, and the contractor has to sign off on all changes. If you had told me you wanted new devices and the plans said otherwise, I would STILL take it to the contractor. He's the one paying me.

Normally though, if you offer to buy the devices and I have to install them anyway, it isn't an issue with anyone.

Well, I don't think you are listening to me. We're not talking about fixtures here. We're talking about basic recepticles that are part of the job. You wouldn't wire up an outlet and not put the outlet in. And we're also not talking about big bucks, either. I bought the new outlets and switches at Wal*Mart for under $10.

I had a whole addition done so I know the difference between basics and extras when it comes to saving money. My deal with that contractor was that I would supply all the fixtures. The faucets, all the ceiling lights with the exception of the recessed lights in the kitchen, which were part of the rough electrical run in.

On that job, one thing I didn't buy was the tub drain and plug for the new bathroom. Lenny told me exactly what to buy except for that. I went out and bought really a nice brass faucet and shower valve. What did the plumber do? He put in a chrome drain and plug, and the plug is just a filler plate. I have no way to stop up the drain in my master bathroom. I was home that day, too, and they never asked me that either.

I understand what you're saying about the sub-contractor being paid by the contractor, but it wouldn't kill you to ask the customer what they want. Especially if the contractor is a weasel.

 

[CockySOB]

I understand what you're saying about the sub-contractor being paid by the contractor, but it wouldn't kill you to ask the customer what they want. Especially if the contractor is a weasel.

That would be the job of the customer and contractor when arranging the contract job. The subcontractors are obligated to abide by the contract they have with the general contractor and not the customer; and, it is the general contractor's duty to ensure that any subcontractors meet the required specifications of the customer-contractor contract.

Frankly, if the details weren't spelled out in the contract between customer and contractor, then they are left to the contractor's discretion.

BTW, if the contractor violated the terms of your contract, then take the contractor to civil court for failure to perform. If the subcontractors fail to perform to the contractor's specification, then you still take the contractor to court and let him deal with the subcontractors on his own. That the way it works.

 

[Gunny]

Well, I don't think you are listening to me. We're not talking about fixtures here. We're talking about basic recepticles that are part of the job. You wouldn't wire up an outlet and not put the outlet in. And we're also not talking about big bucks, either. I bought the new outlets and switches at Wal*Mart for under $10.

I am listening to you, and you are incorrect. Receptacles are NOT "part of the job." NOTHING is "part of the job" or "included" free. It ALL costs money. Your house, your work -- YOUR money, not mine. How little you think the cost is is irrelevant. I'm not going to pay to work for you.

I had a whole addition done so I know the difference between basics and extras when it comes to saving money. My deal with that contractor was that I would supply all the fixtures. The faucets, all the ceiling lights with the exception of the recessed lights in the kitchen, which were part of the rough electrical run in.

I don't see what this part of your "deal" with the contractor has to do with your argument. I don't see mention made of electrical devices; which, are separate items not included in any of what you mentioned.

On that job, one thing I didn't buy was the tub drain and plug for the new bathroom. Lenny told me exactly what to buy except for that. I went out and bought really a nice brass faucet and shower valve. What did the plumber do? He put in a chrome drain and plug, and the plug is just a filler plate. I have no way to stop up the drain in my master bathroom. I was home that day, too, and they never asked me that either.

I understand what you're saying about the sub-contractor being paid by the contractor, but it wouldn't kill you to ask the customer what they want. Especially if the contractor is a weasel.

I never said it would kill me to ask the owner anything, and in fact, I usually DO talk to them if they around. Some, I can't get out of my toolpouch. I REALLY love the ones who know my job better than I do.

But they STILL don't get anything free. If they want something not in the contract, I cahrge them for it. That's just the way business is done.

 

[Gunny]

That would be the job of the customer and contractor when arranging the contract job. The subcontractors are obligated to abide by the contract they have with the general contractor and not the customer; and, it is the general contractor's duty to ensure that any subcontractors meet the required specifications of the customer-contractor contract.

Frankly, if the details weren't spelled out in the contract between customer and contractor, then they are left to the contractor's discretion.

BTW, if the contractor violated the terms of your contract, then take the contractor to civil court for failure to perform. If the subcontractors fail to perform to the contractor's specification, then you still take the contractor to court and let him deal with the subcontractors on his own. That the way it works.

Adhering strictly to the contract, a binding, legal agreement, protects both the customer and the contractor/subcontractor. It keeps me from doing exactly what it appears her contractor did to her .... promised one thing and delivered another.

However, a contract can't do anything for assuming something is included. Never assume. And if the work isn't done, check the contract first, and if it isn't in there, no one is obligated to do it. If the work isn't done and it IS in the contract, then your suggestion is the next step ..... take them to court. They'll either have to do the work or give back the money for it.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

The other part of the problem is, imagine that you're a contractor who assumes that the customer is willing to pay only $20 more for a set of recepticles, but then you get some penny-pinching skinflint who is shocked at the extra cost that he didn't authorize. You've got to spend a good bit of time removing all those new outlets and putting the old ones back in, and now you're talking serious money. People are dumb like that but I'm sure it happens.

edit: check out the pimpin' new shower. Thank God, no more tile to cut.

 

[CockySOB]

Nice tile shower BVB!

 

[KarlMarx]

Well holy crap Gunny, I'm a lisenced electrician in the state of Wisconsin...

I've done construction and home building and home maintenance for years, so I don't have any horror stories either. If I needed something done in one of my homes, I did it myself. Saved major cash, and I knew it was done right.

God Bless ya, Pale. Me, I'm the exact opposite. If I want it done right, I have to hire someone. I usually stick with people that have been around a long time and may be more expensive, but are reputable. I shell out a lot of cash, but it gets done right and the job doesn't take years to complete.

I'm good with electrical stuff (I have a degree in Electrical Engineering, so I like to think that's why, but it probably has NOTHING to do with it!).

Plumbing? Ha! I spent a week trying to find a replacement stem after I managed to cross thread one on a faucet. And all the faucet needed was a new rubber washer! When it comes to plumbing, I'm the worst. But, I have to say this, don't believe the rumors that the flooding in the Binghamton area this past summer had anything to do with the fact that I was trying to replace a faucet!

I once did tile a bathroom. The problem was all the plumbing underneath was bad, so now it's all falling apart. The good part is that it's now my ex-wife's problem! I guess God works in mysterious ways. See? I don't know what I'm doing.

 

[nt250]

God Bless ya, Pale. Me, I'm the exact opposite. If I want it done right, I have to hire someone. I usually stick with people that have been around a long time and may be more expensive, but are reputable. I shell out a lot of cash, but it gets done right and the job doesn't take years to complete.


I once did tile a bathroom. The problem was all the plumbing underneath was bad, so now it's all falling apart. The good part is that it's now my ex-wife's problem! I guess God works in mysterious ways. See? I don't know what I'm doing.

The problem with doing it right, that is getting recommendations from friends and family about contractors, is that you can wait forever for those people. They don't need the work, so even if they do dain to call you back, you can wait two years for those contractors to get to your job. I moved into this house in March of 2004 and by the time I got my finances straightened out to the point where I knew what I could spend, it was way too late in the season to get the best people. Most have answering machines and nobody called me back. One guy told me maybe he could fit me in the next summer. Only one guy came out and gave me an estimate and he acted like he didn't want the job.

I have a co-worker going through the same thing now. She wants to remodel her kitchen and Ikea referred her to a contractor who has glowing reviews all over the place. He has the best reputation in the city. But she hasn't even hired him yet and she can't get him to return her phone calls.

I was pretty lucky. My first contractor didn't screw me over too badly. Aside from the tile floor, the rest of it came out great. Better than I could have hoped for. Everytime I walk in my kitchen I just love it. What a huge difference it's made in the quality of our lives. It was definately worth it. Tough to live through, but it was worth it in the end.

It's all like a distant dream now.