Hobby Lobby and the Loss of America's Soul

[jtpr312]

[

And this my unAmerican little shit, is the number 1 reason we will never allow you leftsit scumbags to disarm us. We KNOW you don't give a crap about other people's rights, that's obvious. That is the mark of you Godless, leftist, scumbags, just like it was the mark of your heroes Mao and Stalin. And here's some FYI for you. A govt that would use force and threats of punishment to break it's own Constitution IS the very epitome of a Facist govt. Maybe you're ignorant of what the 1st Amendment says, so I'll educate you on the relevent portion here. 1st Amendment; Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Now when Congress passes a law forcing people to go against their faith by providing aborticants to others, that IS Congress making law prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Freaking traitorous scumbags all of you leftsits.

If they feel that strongly about it, they should shut down their business.

The minute they claimed they were entitled to a tax break from the government for providing health care to their employees, they were subject to whatever the government considered valid insurance coverage. Sorry.

Why? Why should they have to be punished becuase Congress and the scumbag in the white house spit on and ignored the Constitution. When your freedoms and rights are threathened you don't run and hide in a hole, you fight.

 

[jtpr312]

No it's not a stretch at all first off, and secondly, it's more than birth control, (which is against the practices of the papist faith), it is providing aborticants, which is against the entire Christian faith. If your faith is against aborticants and birth control and you are forced to participate in the distribution of them, that is prohibiting you from exercising your religion. My faith says life begins at the moment of conception, therefore to make me participate in the distribution of aborticants, goes against the practice of my faith. This is just one example of why I'm glad that as an employer, I will not hire anyone that isn't a conservative, bible believing Christian.

You think Christians aren't out there having abortions just like secular folks?

And that's relvent to this how?

 

[JoeB131]

That’s not at issue.

How exactly does the ACA compel the owners themselves of Hobby Lobby to use contraceptives? Typical of the Godless liberal, stuck on stupid. Let me help you out Dim. Number 1. It's not just a question of contreceptives at issue here, it is aborticants also. Number 2. It's not a question of us, meaing Christians and Catholics, who are the ones who have a big problem with the contreceptives, taking them or using them, it's the fact that we are being forced to pay for them and help distribute them. We beleive life starts at the moment of conception, therefore forcing us to provide and pay for aborticants is asking us to participate in murder according to our faith. ]..

Then your faith is kind of retarded, guy. There's not a single verse in you own bible that justifies it. In fact, women who got pregnant out of wedlock were stoned to death along with their fetuses, and the bible didn't consider the death of a fetus to be an offense more serious than a fine.

Requiring employers to provide comprehensive health insurance coverage as a form of compensation which may or may not include the administering of contraceptive therapies in no way directly effects the owners, who are free to use contraceptives or not. Again, get out of the stupid gear son. It is NOT just about contraceptives, which actually I think if you want them you should pony up the cash and freeaking buy them, it's about aborticants, which again, to a christian, is asking us to pay to end a life.

Not really. By your logic, if they take the wages you give them and pay for an abortion with them, are you paying for an abortion? Health care is a form of compensation, and the employer really doesn't have a say on the use of that compensation. Nor should it.

What an employer’s employee does with his compensation – regardless its form – is the employee’s business and the employee’s business alone. NOT IF THE EMPLOYER IS PAYING THE FREAKING BILL. What part of that do you leftist a-holes find so hard to comprehend? Furthermore, why is that you leftists think other people should be forced to pay your freaking way in life? God you freaking people are worthless parasites.

..[/QUOTE]

The employer is not "paying the freaking bill". They are paying for services rendered. This is the point you don't get. If you want to insist on making health care a form of compensation instead of a government service, then you really don't have any say on how they use that compensation.

 

[Shogun]

fuck hobby lobby and the dogma junkie assholes who think that their opinions on faith is more relevant to the health of a woman than the medical choices offered by her doctor.

seriously, this albatross issue is exactly why the Todd Akin crowd of the right wing is killing the republican party.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Forcing someone to purchase insurance that covers abortion pills is in fact forcing someone to go against thier faith.....But Progressive democrats being the fascists they are don't understand that....

We understand. We just don't care. NOBODY'S religion should matter more than anyone else's.

And FYI, that's not a fascist tenet, a government that's blind with respect to religion is of the Liberal Faith.

And this my unAmerican little shit, is the number 1 reason we will never allow you leftsit scumbags to disarm us. We KNOW you don't give a crap about other people's rights, that's obvious. That is the mark of you Godless, leftist, scumbags, just like it was the mark of your heroes Mao and Stalin. And here's some FYI for you. A govt that would use force and threats of punishment to break it's own Constitution IS the very epitome of a Facist govt. Maybe you're ignorant of what the 1st Amendment says, so I'll educate you on the relevent portion here. 1st Amendment; Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Now when Congress passes a law forcing people to go against their faith by providing aborticants to others, that IS Congress making law prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Freaking traitorous scumbags all of you leftsits.

Exercise away... nobody is trying to force birth control on anyone who doesn't want it for themselves and their family.

Should a good Muslim employer be able to withhold pay from an employee when they know that the money will be spent on porn and alcohol?


When health care coverage is no longer tied to employment, this argument is moot - until then, because of the treatment of health care insurance dollars in the tax code, that coverage is considered part of a compensation package and minimum federal standards should be met, religious differences be damned.

We live in a secular country that is governed by Civil Law, Religious Law be damned. This is the whole point of Congress being specifically prohibited from establishing a state religion.

If you don't like the law, write your CongressMonkey. See you in 2014.

Déjà Vu!​

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

[

And this my unAmerican little shit, is the number 1 reason we will never allow you leftsit scumbags to disarm us. We KNOW you don't give a crap about other people's rights, that's obvious. That is the mark of you Godless, leftist, scumbags, just like it was the mark of your heroes Mao and Stalin. And here's some FYI for you. A govt that would use force and threats of punishment to break it's own Constitution IS the very epitome of a Facist govt. Maybe you're ignorant of what the 1st Amendment says, so I'll educate you on the relevent portion here. 1st Amendment; Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Now when Congress passes a law forcing people to go against their faith by providing aborticants to others, that IS Congress making law prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Freaking traitorous scumbags all of you leftsits.

If they feel that strongly about it, they should shut down their business.

The minute they claimed they were entitled to a tax break from the government for providing health care to their employees, they were subject to whatever the government considered valid insurance coverage. Sorry.

Why? Why should they have to be punished becuase Congress and the scumbag in the white house spit on and ignored the Constitution. When your freedoms and rights are threathened you don't run and hide in a hole, you fight.

No one has ‘spit on’ nor ignored the Constitution; no one’s freedoms and rights are being ‘threatened,’ that’s a subjective perception predicated on partisan animus toward the president. The Supreme Court has reviewed the ACA and ruled it Constitutional; and other Constitutional case law supports the authority of Congress to regulate compensation of working Americans, to ensue that compensation is applied fairly and in accordance with the law.

The Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment applies to individuals and their actual acts of worship, and in the case of Hobby Lobby, no owner of the business or the business itself as a corporate ‘person’ is being compelled to use contraception – hence there is no religious tenet being violated.

The government often compels Americans to pay for things they consider contrary to their religious beliefs; there are religions that oppose war, for example, yet members of those faiths are nonetheless compelled to pay taxes where part of those taxes are used to procure weapons of war that may indeed kill people. Although the government may not compel an individual himself to engage in war in violation of his religious beliefs (United States v. Seeger (1965)), he still may not refuse to pay his taxes because he fears part of that revenue might contribute to the killing of a person during a time of war.

So too Hobby Lobby may not refuse to contribute to employees’ health insurance premiums as a form of compensation because an employee might use that health insurance coverage for contraceptive therapy.

 

[jtpr312]

That’s not at issue.

How exactly does the ACA compel the owners themselves of Hobby Lobby to use contraceptives? Typical of the Godless liberal, stuck on stupid. Let me help you out Dim. Number 1. It's not just a question of contreceptives at issue here, it is aborticants also. Number 2. It's not a question of us, meaing Christians and Catholics, who are the ones who have a big problem with the contreceptives, taking them or using them, it's the fact that we are being forced to pay for them and help distribute them. We beleive life starts at the moment of conception, therefore forcing us to provide and pay for aborticants is asking us to participate in murder according to our faith. ]..

Then your faith is kind of retarded, guy. There's not a single verse in you own bible that justifies it. In fact, women who got pregnant out of wedlock were stoned to death along with their fetuses, and [COLOR="Red"]the bible didn't consider the death of a fetus to be an offense more serious than a fine[/COLOR]. Wrong slick. best you go back and read Exodus 21:22-25 a bit closer dumbass. The penalty for causeing the death of the unborn child is.............you guessed, death. The fine is if the pregnant woman, while caught in the middle of a confrontation between two men, miscarries but their is NO HARM to the child. If there IS harm to the child, the penalty was much more severe- But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Requiring employers to provide comprehensive health insurance coverage as a form of compensation which may or may not include the administering of contraceptive therapies in no way directly effects the owners, who are free to use contraceptives or not. Again, get out of the stupid gear son. It is NOT just about contraceptives, which actually I think if you want them you should pony up the cash and freeaking buy them, it's about aborticants, which again, to a christian, is asking us to pay to end a life.

Not really. By your logic, if they take the wages you give them and pay for an abortion with them, are you paying for an abortion? Health care is a form of compensation, and the employer really doesn't have a say on the use of that compensation. Nor should it. Your ignorance shows again. What you pay an employee is theirs s to do with as they please. It no longer belongs to the employer because the employee traded services for money. And if it's forced upon the empolyer by the govt, it is no longer purely compensation.

What an employer’s employee does with his compensation – regardless its form – is the employee’s business and the employee’s business alone. NOT IF THE EMPLOYER IS PAYING THE FREAKING BILL. What part of that do you leftist a-holes find so hard to comprehend? Furthermore, why is that you leftists think other people should be forced to pay your freaking way in life? God you freaking people are worthless parasites.

..

The employer is not "paying the freaking bill". They are paying for services rendered. This is the point you don't get. If you want to insist on making health care a form of compensation instead of a government service, then you really don't have any say on how they use that compensation. The Govt is forcing it upon the employer, therefore it is no longer striclty "compensation" as the employer decides what to offer in form of compensation for services rendered. Once the govt mandates what you MUST give in form of compensation, it is out of the employers hands on what they can and cannot offer. [/QUOTE].

 

[nitroz]

How dare someone stand up against their employers forced religious beliefs.

 

[JoeB131]

Wrong slick. best you go back and read Exodus 21:22-25 a bit closer dumbass. The penalty for causeing the death of the unborn child is.............you guessed, death. The fine is if the pregnant woman, while caught in the middle of a confrontation between two men, miscarries but their is NO HARM to the child. If there IS harm to the child, the penalty was much more severe- But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.[/COLOR]

Uh, no, the penalty was a fine. You really think that babies in the Bronze Age survived premature birth? Hell, the infant mortality rate was north of 50%, which is why Censuses didn't count babies unless they were one month old. ( -- Leviticus 27:6 , Numbers 3:15-16). The reality was that harm was defined as the mother dying, not the fetus, and that's how most translations call it.

Your ignorance shows again. What you pay an employee is theirs s to do with as they please. It no longer belongs to the employer because the employee traded services for money. And if it's forced upon the empolyer by the govt, it is no longer purely compensation.

Exactly. Once an employer gives you insurance, it belongs to the employee and the employer has no say. Thanks for pointing that out. Oh, and the government can insist on minimum wage and overtime, so the DO have a say in compensation. So argument fail again. Man, ain't looking good for Hobby Lobby at all.

The Govt is forcing it upon the employer, therefore it is no longer striclty "compensation" as the employer decides what to offer in form of compensation for services rendered. Once the govt mandates what you MUST give in form of compensation, it is out of the employers hands on what they can and cannot offer[/

Exactly. The government determines what is fair compensation. It's been doing that since it established child labor laws, minimum wage laws, pension governance, etc. Hobby Lobby doesn't have a leg to stand on here...