Hoarders and private property rights

[kwc57]

Here is an interesting thread from yesterday where we discussed property rights vs home owner associations.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...e-in-a-hoa-home-owners-assoc-development.html

 

[kwc57]

Renters for the most part don't give a shit about what they are renting.

That's quite a broad statement.

Any renter that cares about their security deposit, cares about what they're renting if they'd ever like to see it again.

I've known quite a few landlords in my day, and in general, renters don't give a shit. Yes, you get some great renters, but the majority could care less. Pride of ownership counts a lot. That is why my son had to buy hois own car just like his mother and I did when we were his age. I've watched too many kids get handed car keys to a free car and tear them up.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I'm so ashamed.

I'm a hoarder.

I have piles and piles of papers I'm neck deep in, it's sick -- and it's only since I've been posting at USMB.

See, every time Jake Starkey posts that he's a Centrist Republican, or every time Rdean posts about Republicans, well, it cracks me the fuck up and I have to print it out and read it again so I laugh myself to sleep.

The Fire Department came in to clean up and things were going fine until they started reading some of the stuff Rdean and Starkey wrote and we spent the next 3 hours laughing ourselves silly.

LMAO!

Of course I don't seem centrist to you because you far right fauxcons so far over the horizons that only your beady eyes are showing keep saying you are "mainstream". Now that is funny.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I'm so ashamed.

I'm a hoarder.

I have piles and piles of papers I'm neck deep in, it's sick -- and it's only since I've been posting at USMB.

See, every time Jake Starkey posts that he's a Centrist Republican, or every time Rdean posts about Republicans, well, it cracks me the fuck up and I have to print it out and read it again so I laugh myself to sleep.

The Fire Department came in to clean up and things were going fine until they started reading some of the stuff Rdean and Starkey wrote and we spent the next 3 hours laughing ourselves silly.

LMAO!

Of course I don't seem centrist to you because you far right fauxcons so far over the horizons that only your beady eyes are showing keep saying you are "mainstream". Now that is funny.

You're about as mainstream as Mao, and you've added to my hoard pile

 

[Middleman]

I am a landlord. One small house, across town, is occupied by the former girlfriend of the fellow who bought it on a owner-financed sales contract 3 or so years ago. He was unable to keep up with the payments, I took the property back, and she stayed on as a renter.They were slobs, with lots of crap in the yard, to the point that when I went to re-insure the house, I had to pay a much higher rate.

Finally, the town where I live sent me, the property owner, a certified letter, with photos and legal terminology, telling me to clean it up ASAP. I, in turn, lowered the boom on my tenant and she got it cleaned up, plus I insisted that she be the one to call and deal with city-hall, or else.

My point being, the landlord is ultimately responsible for his property.

 

[Nosmo King]

I'm a building inspector. Ride with me just one week and you won't have to waste time on television shows about sloppy houses. Ride with me just one week and you'll never eat at a buffet ever EVER again after seeing what some of these idiots consider hygienic.

I've seen so much crap piled up in a bedroom, I could not see a bed. I've found septic tanks without a lid but ringed with grass and weeds two feet high. I've seen idiots replace a boiler with a forced air oil burning furnace. They put a 650 gallon fuel tank in the basement without provisions to either put fuel into the tank or vent fumes out. And, since there was no duct work in the hot water heated house before, they decided to cut two holes in the dining room floor to allow the oil furnace to heat that room. No provisions to heat any other room, including the second floor, just the dining room.

Yes dear reader, idiots who may have seen a house or even lived in one once should never be permitted to work on a house.

 

[kwc57]

I'm so ashamed.

I'm a hoarder.

I have piles and piles of papers I'm neck deep in, it's sick -- and it's only since I've been posting at USMB.

See, every time Jake Starkey posts that he's a Centrist Republican, or every time Rdean posts about Republicans, well, it cracks me the fuck up and I have to print it out and read it again so I laugh myself to sleep.

The Fire Department came in to clean up and things were going fine until they started reading some of the stuff Rdean and Starkey wrote and we spent the next 3 hours laughing ourselves silly.

Way to troll a health and lifestyle thread about hoarding and turn it into a political flame Francis. Moran!

 

[MaggieMae]

That is awesome, MaggieMae. That she has personal property in play after destroying the quality of life of others has to smart for her. Good deal.

The landlord/tenent laws in the State of Vermont heavily favor the tenant. The Association only acts as agent for the owner of the unit. If all he wants to do is send her bills for the damage and hope for the best, our hands are tied.

 

[MaggieMae]

Do they have any when their hoarding affects neighbors?

I live in a condominium community with 3 townhouses attached to each structure. We discovered early last spring, following sewage backup so bad that it was bubbling up from the outside connection and causing godawful smells, that one of the new tenents (non-owner) had been flushing her garbage DOWN HER TOILET.

This is not a stupid person; she has a great job and is gone much of the time. She's always dressed to the nines, drives a nice shiny Subaru, and is pleasant--whenever anyone actually sees her. But after that experience, I just shrugged it off as a person who is nice and shiny on the outside and a pig on the inside. C'est la vie. To each her own.

But there's more: The other two residents in the building (myself and another) also had a terrible time with gnats (fruit flies) all summer long. They were so bad that I began giving them their own little dish of fermented tomato juice, where they would all party down, and then I could zap them all at once. But within a day, there was a whole new family of fruit flies that had moved in. LOTS of them.

Come to find out this WOMAN, rather than flushing her potato peelings down the toilet, and everything else that would fit in there, was just leaving it out in plastic bags strewn all over her kitchen. (No wonder no one ever ran into her at the dumpster!)

Well she moved out a few days ago, and last week we discovered why: She had no more room in her unit. Yup. She is one of those classic hoarders we've been seeing a LOT of on several TV programs lately. Unfuckingbelievable. I won't even go into how bad it was; just use your imagination.

Anyway, because of the filthy lifestyle that she chose, the unit now has mold up and down the kitchen walls, and holes in the walls have been created because of the heaviness of the wet trash bags leaning up against the walls and floor. The whole place has to be professionally fumigated to get rid of silverfish, roaches, etc., and of course the fruit flies swarming everywhere in there. So the Association has decided we're going after her for damages, and she has been notified so far only by registered mail. She is now claiming, in phone calls to me, that what she did in the confines of her own private living space is protected by her right to privacy which trumps any lease agreement she signed.

Since the Association will choose not to spend the money for a lawyer, it looks like we'll just have to pony up. While I usually weigh in with compassion for people like this woman (whom we're all told has a "mental illness"), this time I'm just pissed off beyond belief. We're going to have to raise association dues to cover the repairs (and any future repairs should we unwittingly rent to another one), plus it looks like I'll have to spend a couple of days in a hotel, which I'm NOT looking forward to.

Thanks for reading my rant. It's better to vent in writing than to go knocking on this person's door to her "new" place and smacking her around.

Why will the association not pony up for a lawyer....Are funds not set aside for possible litigation purposes?...If not, then I would sell that place forthwit, if you can. Obviously the association is useless if they won't provide for a lawyer.

Ya' got to read EVERYTHING before entering into an association contract...The first red flag would be no litigation funds set aside.

The association fees collected go into a general fund which is a basic contingency fund for anything that might arise--storm damage, attorneys fees, etc. The only portions set aside are for fixed expenses for the common areas and for taxes on the land itself, since we only own the buildings. Sometimes there's a special assessment for emergencies, such as a few years ago when we got approval from all owners (the association members) to contract with a new propane dealer. That entailed a summer-long dig all over the property to dig up the existing tanks and replace them (and repipe all the units) by a new provider. The old dealer had been ripping us off big time, so in the long run it will be a huge cost savings on monthly fuel bills for everyone. But there wasn't enough money in the general fund to pay the excavation costs, so everyone had to put up an extra one-time $400.

 

[MaggieMae]

Maggie,

Given your truly awful experience having to pay for someone else's irresponsible behavior, perhaps you'll now have more sympathy for the Tea Party Movement who feel the same way about how their taxes are abused by our government.

I'm all for getting the "bugs" out of the tax system. Never said I wasn't.

 

[MaggieMae]

I'm so ashamed.

I'm a hoarder.

I have piles and piles of papers I'm neck deep in, it's sick -- and it's only since I've been posting at USMB.

See, every time Jake Starkey posts that he's a Centrist Republican, or every time Rdean posts about Republicans, well, it cracks me the fuck up and I have to print it out and read it again so I laugh myself to sleep.

The Fire Department came in to clean up and things were going fine until they started reading some of the stuff Rdean and Starkey wrote and we spent the next 3 hours laughing ourselves silly.

Cleaning out homes about to be condemned must be one of those awful requirements of fire fighters, so I'm sure if you offered them beer, they were more than happy to get wasted rather than dealing with your trash. And you thought it was your engaging personality...

 

[MaggieMae]

Here is an interesting thread from yesterday where we discussed property rights vs home owner associations.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...e-in-a-hoa-home-owners-assoc-development.html

Thanks for referring me. I had some fun with that, and I see you did too!

 

[MikeK]

[...]She is now claiming, in phone calls to me, that what she did in the confines of her own private living space is protected by her right to privacy which trumps any lease agreement she signed.

Since the Association will choose not to spend the money for a lawyer, it looks like we'll just have to pony up. [...]

Look that lease agreement over carefully.

The standard lease agreement contains language specifically forbidding any activity which damages or depreciates the property or causes an unsanitary or hazardous condition. One's right to privacy does not supersede such specifications.

Small Claims Court is not an expensive process and usually does not require representation.

 

[antagon]

the banks hardly bother anymore, but in 2006-07 we would clear out/board up 2-3 repo's a week. the hoarder's syndrome affected lots of these folks on the path to foreclosure. lots of people deliberately trashed the places, but there's no way sane people would have all of that shit in their house. i mean catch-all junk rooms with knee-deep books, papers, toys and mattresses, feral cats, rodents, decomposing half-eaten pizzas, you name it. refrigerator, tube-television and computer tower hoarding is a simplex in itself.

running a handyman firm entirely changes the presumption that the insides of people's homes are as normal as the inhabitants seem at first glance.

property rights just need to be argued out in a claims or civil court. there is nothing definitive about that shit in my experience. the cost of pursuing the issue is greater than the returns. the defendant is always broke, even if they're not. i have had shit experiences with ass tenants of mine. even though things worked out fine in court, renters are broke-asses and cant/dont come through w/ damages owed. who cares if they go to jail when all you want is cash?