HNN Poll: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst

[MikeK]

And Republicans think Obama is just like Bush? The hate is deep. They swear it's not about race, but race is the only thing that could account for hatred this deep.

I agree. I think racial hatred drives a significant percentage of right-wing political hostility.

And I think that you are both fucking idiots.

This is a discussion forum, not a haven for punks who like taking advantage of distance and anonymity to say things to people they wouldn't dare say face-to-face. So if you have an opinion why not present its substance for review.

Merely issuing insults serves no purpose other than revealing what you're really made of.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I agree. I think racial hatred drives a significant percentage of right-wing political hostility.

And I think that you are both fucking idiots.

This is a discussion forum, not a haven for punks who like taking advantage of distance and anonymity to say things to people they wouldn't dare say face-to-face. So if you have an opinion why not present its substance for review.

Merely issuing insults serves no purpose other than revealing what you're really made of.

I am not anonymous, anyone with half a brain can find my true name and probably my address and phone number. Of course anyone with half a brain wouldn't do that.

Now plain and simple, if you believe that the Republican party hates Obama because of his skin color then you are a fucking idiot. And if you want me to tell you that face to face I would be more than happy to. But then I don't have a clue who you are or where you are do I, Mr Anonymous.

 

[code1211]

What will not change about Bush

1. He blundered in his decision to invade Iraq on bogus intelligence
2. He sat like a deer in the headlights as the economy crashed
3. He openly engaged in torture
4. He ignored Katrina

In the minds of Kool-Aid drinkers and sheeple - yes your right.

On your "points".
1) Congress also voted to go to war, this "bogus" intelligence "fooled" also the Prime Minister of Great Britian, France and ultimately the U.N.
2) The economy crashed 3 months before his Presidency en) He did nothing no other President has not done, including Obama.
4) Your opinion on this shows your true ignorance and blind partisanship in who/what really failed in this human disaster.

1. Congress authorized Bush to go to war, the decision to pull the trigger was Bush's and Bush's alone. He was advised by UN security inspectors to hold off the invasion. He pulled the trigger before inspectors proved there were no WMDs

2. The economy crashed in August 2007. Bush denied it was crashing until 3 months before his presidency ended

3. He openly engaged in torture and held prisoners indefinitely with no charges and no rights to face their accusers

4. He did nothing as Americans struggled and begged for food and medical supplies. He had the helicopters to provide relief but allowed beaurocracy to hold them up while he declared "Brownie, your doing a heck of a job"

1. As I said...

2. Crashed in August 2007? What did it do in August 2008?

3. File charges on Prisoners of War? Are the people you are talking about the enemy combatatants or have you changed the subject? Again, he erred on the side of protecting the population.

4. The Federal Government is forbidden by law to invade a state without an invite from the State. That invitation was not forthcoming. When the Governor of LA did issue the invite, the Feds responded. The request for Federal Troops was made on August 31. On September 1, 30,000 federal Troops were sent.

Bush had declared a state of Emergency for Louisiana the day before the hurricane made landfall in the state authorizing federal aid to be sent.

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts.

KATRINA: RESPONSE TIMELINE

 

[code1211]

In the minds of Kool-Aid drinkers and sheeple - yes your right.

On your "points".
1) Congress also voted to go to war, this "bogus" intelligence "fooled" also the Prime Minister of Great Britian, France and ultimately the U.N.
2) The economy crashed 3 months before his Presidency en) He did nothing no other President has not done, including Obama.
4) Your opinion on this shows your true ignorance and blind partisanship in who/what really failed in this human disaster.

1. Congress authorized Bush to go to war, the decision to pull the trigger was Bush's and Bush's alone. He was advised by UN security inspectors to hold off the invasion. He pulled the trigger before inspectors proved there were no WMDs

2. The economy crashed in August 2007. Bush denied it was crashing until 3 months before his presidency ended

3. He openly engaged in torture and held prisoners indefinitely with no charges and no rights to face their accusers

4. He did nothing as Americans struggled and begged for food and medical supplies. He had the helicopters to provide relief but allowed beaurocracy to hold them up while he declared "Brownie, your doing a heck of a job"

And Republicans think Obama is just like Bush? The hate is deep. They swear it's not about race, but race is the only thing that could account for hatred this deep.

In what respects does he depart from Bush?

 

[rightwinger]

In the minds of Kool-Aid drinkers and sheeple - yes your right.

On your "points".
1) Congress also voted to go to war, this "bogus" intelligence "fooled" also the Prime Minister of Great Britian, France and ultimately the U.N.
2) The economy crashed 3 months before his Presidency en) He did nothing no other President has not done, including Obama.
4) Your opinion on this shows your true ignorance and blind partisanship in who/what really failed in this human disaster.

1. Congress authorized Bush to go to war, the decision to pull the trigger was Bush's and Bush's alone. He was advised by UN security inspectors to hold off the invasion. He pulled the trigger before inspectors proved there were no WMDs

2. The economy crashed in August 2007. Bush denied it was crashing until 3 months before his presidency ended

3. He openly engaged in torture and held prisoners indefinitely with no charges and no rights to face their accusers

4. He did nothing as Americans struggled and begged for food and medical supplies. He had the helicopters to provide relief but allowed beaurocracy to hold them up while he declared "Brownie, your doing a heck of a job"

1. As I said...

2. Crashed in August 2007? What did it do in August 2008?

3. File charges on Prisoners of War? Are the people you are talking about the enemy combatatants or have you changed the subject? Again, he erred on the side of protecting the population.

4. The Federal Government is forbidden by law to invade a state without an invite from the State. That invitation was not forthcoming. When the Governor of LA did issue the invite, the Feds responded. The request for Federal Troops was made on August 31. On September 1, 30,000 federal Troops were sent.

Bush had declared a state of Emergency for Louisiana the day before the hurricane made landfall in the state authorizing federal aid to be sent.

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts.

KATRINA: RESPONSE TIMELINE

2. It kept crashing. We had negative GDP for five quarters, the stock market dropped 7000 points. Bush denied there was a problem until Sept 2008

3. Bush denied them status as either criminals or prisoners of war. History does not look favorably on leaders who engage in torture

4. What kind of pussy withholds aid to Americans who are without food, water and critical medicines? A real leader would go in with desperately needed aid and let the state bitch about it. Do you really think Louisiana would have cried about their states rights if the federal government went in two days earlier?

 

[code1211]

And Republicans think Obama is just like Bush? The hate is deep. They swear it's not about race, but race is the only thing that could account for hatred this deep.

I agree. I think racial hatred drives a significant percentage of right-wing political hostility.

If unemployment was at 5%, if the deficit was not at a level 8 times the previous record, if the guy was not a partisan hack, if the rate of growth in the economy was 3 or 4 percent, if the toxic assets had been addressed, if he had not used lies, deciet and political tricks to pass the worst legislation in the history of the republic and if he actually was not a racist himself, I would support the guy.

By any measure, he is a divisive failure in the job. There is no need to be a racist see that.

The economy is in shambles, he is playing all parts of society against all other parts, he continuously makes decisions based on nothing but racist predispositions and he is putting the attainment of his personal priorities above all things including the Constitution.

I just hope we can hold on until the election in 2012.

 

[MikeK]

And Republicans think Obama is just like Bush? The hate is deep. They swear it's not about race, but race is the only thing that could account for hatred this deep.

I agree.

Racism can occur at the subliminal level, as in the rather common example of the White parent who truly believes he or she is not prejudiced but whose true feelings manifest when a teen-age son or daughter brings home a Black fiance(e). I personally believe that for every White American who is plainly aware of of his/her racist disposition toward Blacks there are dozens more who simply will not admit it even to themselves because of the pressures of political correctness but rationalize those subliminal feelings with some unrelated political objection to Obama's performance.

I further believe that racist objection to a Black President has driven a significant percentage of Whites to adhere to the right-wing political agenda.

 

[HenryBHough]

Actually that 61% of historians believe this way is a demonstration of the poor quality of the indoctrination they were given in their Liberal Arts courses. Had those been effective a success rate of 98% + should have been achieved.

Obviously our nation's colleges need to be taken into hand by "No Idiot Left Behind".

 

[SFC Ollie]

And Republicans think Obama is just like Bush? The hate is deep. They swear it's not about race, but race is the only thing that could account for hatred this deep.

I agree.

Racism can occur at the subliminal level, as in the rather common example of the White parent who truly believes he or she is not prejudiced but whose true feelings manifest when a teen-age son or daughter brings home a Black fiance(e). I personally believe that for every White American who is plainly aware of of his/her racist disposition toward Blacks there are dozens more who simply will not admit it even to themselves because of the pressures of political correctness but rationalize those subliminal feelings with some unrelated political objection to Obama's performance.

I further believe that racist objection to a Black President has driven a significant percentage of Whites to adhere to the right-wing political agenda.

And I believe that you are so wrong it's pathetic.

 

[code1211]

1. Congress authorized Bush to go to war, the decision to pull the trigger was Bush's and Bush's alone. He was advised by UN security inspectors to hold off the invasion. He pulled the trigger before inspectors proved there were no WMDs

2. The economy crashed in August 2007. Bush denied it was crashing until 3 months before his presidency ended

3. He openly engaged in torture and held prisoners indefinitely with no charges and no rights to face their accusers

4. He did nothing as Americans struggled and begged for food and medical supplies. He had the helicopters to provide relief but allowed beaurocracy to hold them up while he declared "Brownie, your doing a heck of a job"

1. As I said...

2. Crashed in August 2007? What did it do in August 2008?

3. File charges on Prisoners of War? Are the people you are talking about the enemy combatatants or have you changed the subject? Again, he erred on the side of protecting the population.

4. The Federal Government is forbidden by law to invade a state without an invite from the State. That invitation was not forthcoming. When the Governor of LA did issue the invite, the Feds responded. The request for Federal Troops was made on August 31. On September 1, 30,000 federal Troops were sent.

Bush had declared a state of Emergency for Louisiana the day before the hurricane made landfall in the state authorizing federal aid to be sent.

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts.

KATRINA: RESPONSE TIMELINE

2. It kept crashing. We had negative GDP for five quarters, the stock market dropped 7000 points. Bush denied there was a problem until Sept 2008

3. Bush denied them status as either criminals or prisoners of war. History does not look favorably on leaders who engage in torture

4. What kind of pussy withholds aid to Americans who are without food, water and critical medicines? A real leader would go in with desperately needed aid and let the state bitch about it. Do you really think Louisiana would have cried about their states rights if the federal government went in two days earlier?

2. Still, the numbers of August 2008 while a drop from the previous year were a set that, if the Big 0 could produce them today, would have him re-elected without opposition. The problem with using superlatives is that if they are not required when you use them, they have no meaning when they are required.

Economic Snapshot for August 2008

Economic Snapshot for July 2011

3. What is an enemy combatant?

4. If you had read the article, you would have seen that Bush Declared a state of Emergancy BEFORE KATRINA MADE LANDFALL. That automatically frees up the resources including food and aid of all types if the Governor allows it to be distributed. How does approvig the dispersal of aid before the need exists amount to withholding it?

You're saying that the president should break laws if he thinks he's right even though his actions are illegal? This would explain allot.

 

[rightwinger]

Actually that 61% of historians believe this way is a demonstration of the poor quality of the indoctrination they were given in their Liberal Arts courses. Had those been effective a success rate of 98% + should have been achieved.

Obviously our nation's colleges need to be taken into hand by "No Idiot Left Behind".

Damn...look at that

Republicans say the same thing about scientists who don't agree with their dogma

 

[rightwinger]

You're saying that the president should break laws if he thinks he's right even though his actions are illegal? This would explain allot.

If it involves saving the lives of Americans who have been affected by a natural disaster...Hell yea!

Do what needs to be done to save people clinging to their roofs and needing evacuation. Worry about the paperwork later

 

[code1211]

You're saying that the president should break laws if he thinks he's right even though his actions are illegal? This would explain allot.

If it involves saving the lives of Americans who have been affected by a natural disaster...Hell yea!

Do what needs to be done to save people clinging to their roofs and needing evacuation. Worry about the paperwork later

In this case, the paperwork is Federal Law. Can you imagine the howling from the Dems if W had done this?

The simple truth of Katrina is that it was an evolving catastrophe that turned into thousands of personal tradgedies. Many, many hurricanes had hit this coast before and many will do so again.

Nobody knew the magnitude of the problem that was developing and those closest to the problem, the New Orleans law enforcement and government, were far less responsive than they should have been. AWOL might be a good description here.

The LA State level response was equally wanting. The help that we expect our governments to provide was absent.

The Feds made available everything that was needed, but the state refused it either by commission or ommission. When the LA Governor finally asked for help, 30,000 troops were deployed within 24 hours. By any measure, moving that number of people with their equipment and supplies and the materials and provisions to feed and cloth a million other people is a pretty impressive response and cannot possibly be turned on like a light switch.

As with most Liberal attacks, simply pointing at the result which was a catastrophe, does not automatically afix blame to the targeted suspect. In this case, and in every case from the sinking of the Maine to Women's Soccer Team loss in the 2011 World Cup, Liberals blame W. It's a reflex by now. They cannot help themselves.

Oddly, they don't want to blame the Big 0 for anything.

One might suspect an agenda driven, prejudiced bias if one were a tad cynical.

 

[rightwinger]

You're saying that the president should break laws if he thinks he's right even though his actions are illegal? This would explain allot.

If it involves saving the lives of Americans who have been affected by a natural disaster...Hell yea!

Do what needs to be done to save people clinging to their roofs and needing evacuation. Worry about the paperwork later

In this case, the paperwork is Federal Law. Can you imagine the howling from the Dems if W had done this?

The simple truth of Katrina is that it was an evolving catastrophe that turned into thousands of personal tradgedies. Many, many hurricanes had hit this coast before and many will do so again.

Nobody knew the magnitude of the problem that was developing and those closest to the problem, the New Orleans law enforcement and government, were far less responsive than they should have been. AWOL might be a good description here.

The LA State level response was equally wanting. The help that we expect our governments to provide was absent.

The Feds made available everything that was needed, but the state refused it either by commission or ommission. When the LA Governor finally asked for help, 30,000 troops were deployed within 24 hours. By any measure, moving that number of people with their equipment and supplies and the materials and provisions to feed and cloth a million other people is a pretty impressive response and cannot possibly be turned on like a light switch.

As with most Liberal attacks, simply pointing at the result which was a catastrophe, does not automatically afix blame to the targeted suspect. In this case, and in every case from the sinking of the Maine to Women's Soccer Team loss in the 2011 World Cup, Liberals blame W. It's a reflex by now. They cannot help themselves.

Oddly, they don't want to blame the Big 0 for anything.

One might suspect an agenda driven, prejudiced bias if one were a tad cynical.

If US Army Helicopters came in to rescue Katrina victims, Democrats would have cheered, just like all Americans

In a crisis, nobody cares if the proper paperwork has been filled out. Bush should have told them he was coming in to help and Louisiana could have tried to stop it. You and everyone else knows they wouldn't

If Bush truly let "They didn't ask me" to be the reason he didn't help Katrina victims....he truly is the worst president in US History

 

[JakeStarkey]

UPDATE:::

It is ridiculously early for any historian to rate a President a mere 32 months after leaving office when a great many actions put in place by a President does not take full effect until years later, sometimes as long as 10 years later.

As any Presidential historian worth his/her weight in sand knows this to be true - it begs the question as to what motive they would have to make such a judgement so early.

Where have I heard this one before?

It is ridiculously early to rate Bush after 10 years but you can declare the Obama presidency a failure after 2

Bush is bad, really bad, and no amount of time is going to rectify the rankings. As his administration documents are declassified in the future, Bush will be fixed only above Buchanan.

 

[uscitizen]

Umm doesn't that 28% number match the number that say they are in the Tea Party?

 

[JakeStarkey]

About 1/4 of America is far right insanity.

 

[rightwinger]

UPDATE:::

It is ridiculously early for any historian to rate a President a mere 32 months after leaving office when a great many actions put in place by a President does not take full effect until years later, sometimes as long as 10 years later.

As any Presidential historian worth his/her weight in sand knows this to be true - it begs the question as to what motive they would have to make such a judgement so early.

Where have I heard this one before?

It is ridiculously early to rate Bush after 10 years but you can declare the Obama presidency a failure after 2

Bush is bad, really bad, and no amount of time is going to rectify the rankings. As his administration documents are declassified in the future, Bush will be fixed only above Buchanan.

I don't think that Buchanans decisions had the worldwide impact that the Bush blunders had. His ineptness in execution Afghanistan/Iraq combined with throwing the world into an economic recession had global implications

 

[JakeStarkey]

Buchanan's presidency nearly lost the South for the U.S., which would have made Bush's inanities never happen. We can still recover from Bush and the Far Right Extremist Fascism that has nearly destroyed this country.

 

[Nate]

Where have I heard this one before?

It is ridiculously early to rate Bush after 10 years but you can declare the Obama presidency a failure after 2

Bush is bad, really bad, and no amount of time is going to rectify the rankings. As his administration documents are declassified in the future, Bush will be fixed only above Buchanan.

I don't think that Buchanans decisions had the worldwide impact that the Bush blunders had. His ineptness in execution Afghanistan/Iraq combined with throwing the world into an economic recession had global implications

I can't believe this is still an argument! With all the corruption that has happened in that position since G. Washington you all still think Bush Jr.'s ignorance should rank that high!?! What about Grant's(who I've already mentioned) Whiskey ring scandal? Hardin's Teapot dome scandal? Nixon's watergate? Reagan's Iran-Contra?
I understand that most of you are present day thinkers but damn, learn a little history! Bush was a moron to the nth degree but his ignorance shouldn't justify him being the worst. As a matter of fact those who voted for him and Cheney(the devil) the 2nd time around should be the ones we criticize...