Hitler and the right

[dilloduck]

Doubt that Hitler had the support of the conservative right wing?

1. "Hitler found his greatest support in traditionally conservative small towns. He campaigned with attacks on Marxism, making it clear that by Marxism he meant the Social Democrats. Hitler appealed to morality, attacking free love and what he inferred was the immorality of Berlin and some other major cities. He promised to stamp out big city corruption. He called for a spiritual revolution, for a "positive Christianity" and a spirit of national pride. Hitler repeatedly called for national renewal. He and his National Socialists benefited from the recent upheaval in the Soviet Union and the rise in fear and disgust for Bolshevism. His party's posters read:

If you want your country to go Bolshevik, vote Communist. If you want to remain free Germans, vote for the National Socialists."

Hitler and Germany: 1928 to 1935

2. Neville Chamberlain, appeaser in chief, after the Sudetenland was handed over to Hitler, "But the Conservative leader has always expressed his desire to find a peaceful solution to the Fuehrer's wish to create a new - and enlarged - German homeland in Europe."

BBC ON THIS DAY | 30 | 1938: 'Peace for our time' - Chamberlain

3. The French right admired Hitler, "When Socialists and Communists formed a Popular front Government in 1936 there were many French conservatives who boldly announced that Hitler was preferrable to the leadership of the French socialist Leon Blum."

Road to War

4. "right-to-work" anti-labor conservatives were also pro-Hitler. "There were a mulitude of other racists jumping on the Fascist bandwagon. Joseph P. Kamp printed over two million copies of his anti-labor pamphlet, "Join the C.I.O. and Help Build a Soviet America" which he advertised with the Ku Klux Klan. Millionaire John Kirby in Houston began publishing the anti-black, anti-labor Christian American in support of "right to work" legislation"

Support for Hitler (or Fascism) in the United States | Radical Reference

5. Foreshadowing Republican views on the Clinton being concerned about bin laden as a distraction from Lewinsky, "The former president, Herbert Hoover, had become the Republican Party's chief spokesman in foreign affairs, and when Germany seized Moravia and Bohemia, Hoover declared that no clear and present danger existed and that Britain, France and others in Europe would be able to defend themselves should there be war. Hoover spoke of Roosevelt's "dangerous adventures" and argued that Roosevelt was trying to divert people's attention from his failure to end the depression"

The United States, War Preparation, China, and Jewish Immigration: 1938-39

Goebbels ? Is that you using Ravi as a sock again ?

 

[conservationism]

I always assumed that liberalism = forced equality, conservatism = social Darwinism, and it's just degrees of difference between the different types.

 

[Ravi]

Hitler was so far right he sounded like Obama.

11. The abolition of incomes unearned by work.

13. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).
14. We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises.
15. We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age.
16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, the immediate communalizing of big department stores, and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small traders in the placing of State and municiple orders.



25. To put the whole of this programme into effect, we demand the creation of a strong central state power for the Reich; the unconditional authority of the political central Parliament over the entire Reich and its organizations; and the formation of Corporations based on estate and occupation for the purpose of carrying out the general legislation passed by the Reich in the various German states.

Programme of the NSDAP, 24 February 1920

You have quoted the 25 points of the Nationalist Socilaist party in 1920. A lot happened from 1920 to 1933 when the nazis came to power. Namely, the Nazis pretty much dropped the socialist part of their ideology. Hitler learned that in order to come to power by legal means he needed to court the powers that be - the military and big business. Hitler did so by promising rearmament and the destruction of organized labor, both of which he quickly did after assuming power.

Ever wonder what happened to Gregory and Otto Strasser, two leaders of the Nazi movement who leaned towards socilalism. They were booted from the party. What about those millions of stormtroopers who helped Hitler obtain absolute power? The brownshirts were dismantled because they advocated a continuous revolution and Hitler wanted to preserve the existing power structures of the military and business to begin his road to comquest.

The Nazis never won a majority in an election. Hitler was appointed chancelor of a conservative coalition government. The social democrats and the communists were left out of this coalition.The conservatives had nothing but contempt for the democratic ideals of the Weimar Republic. They also feared the communism of the left.

Despite their name, the Nazis had little to do with sociialism. They were a party of the far right. There is no comparison to Obama and Nazi Germany in ideology or principle.

All very true. I wouldn't claim that Hitler was a conservative in the true sense of the word but he certainly drew the support of a lot of conservatives.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Hitler was so far right he sounded like Obama.


Programme of the NSDAP, 24 February 1920

You have quoted the 25 points of the Nationalist Socilaist party in 1920. A lot happened from 1920 to 1933 when the nazis came to power. Namely, the Nazis pretty much dropped the socialist part of their ideology. Hitler learned that in order to come to power by legal means he needed to court the powers that be - the military and big business. Hitler did so by promising rearmament and the destruction of organized labor, both of which he quickly did after assuming power.

Ever wonder what happened to Gregory and Otto Strasser, two leaders of the Nazi movement who leaned towards socilalism. They were booted from the party. What about those millions of stormtroopers who helped Hitler obtain absolute power? The brownshirts were dismantled because they advocated a continuous revolution and Hitler wanted to preserve the existing power structures of the military and business to begin his road to comquest.

The Nazis never won a majority in an election. Hitler was appointed chancelor of a conservative coalition government. The social democrats and the communists were left out of this coalition.The conservatives had nothing but contempt for the democratic ideals of the Weimar Republic. They also feared the communism of the left.

Despite their name, the Nazis had little to do with sociialism. They were a party of the far right. There is no comparison to Obama and Nazi Germany in ideology or principle.

All very true. I wouldn't claim that Hitler was a conservative in the true sense of the word but he certainly drew the support of a lot of conservatives.

He also drew the support of a lot of progressives, including George Bernard Shaw.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQvsf2MUKRQ]George Bernard Shaw Defends Hitler, Mass Murder - YouTube[/ame]

Go ahead, try to tell me that Shaw, a noted socialist and member of the Fabian Society, was a conservative.

 

[Ravi]

You're finding individuals. I am showing you entire groups of the far right that supported Hitler.

 

[editec]

Thinking that the our modern left v right debate has anything to do with Hitler is just plain silly.

Claiming that Hitlerism is either a good example socialism OR capitalism gone wrong misses the point entirely.

Of course thinking that our major US political parties are either socialists or facsicsts is equally the stuff of clueless partisans, too, isn't it?

 

[JakeStarkey]

because he's an asshat

Says neg asshat himself

Here, educate yourselves. Liberalism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy) Under 2.1 we read,

Although classical liberals agree on the fundamental importance of private property to a free society, the classical liberal tradition itself refracts into a spectrum of views, from near-anarchist to those that attribute a significant role to the state in economic and social policy (on this spectrum, see Mack and Gaus, 2004). Towards the most extreme ‘libertarian’ end of the classical liberal spectrum are views of justified states as legitimate monopolies that may with justice charge for their necessary rights-protection services: taxation is legitimate so long as it is necessary to protect liberty and property rights. As we go further ‘leftward’ we encounter classical liberal views that allow taxation for (other) public goods and social infrastructure and, moving yet further ‘left’, some classical liberal views allow for a modest social minimum.(e.g., Hayek, 1976: 87). Most nineteenth century classical liberal economists endorsed a variety of state policies, encompassing not only the criminal law and enforcement of contracts, but the licensing of professionals, health, safety and fire regulations, banking regulations, commercial infrastructure (roads, harbors and canals) and often encouraged unionization (Gaus, 1983b). Although today classical liberalism is often associated with extreme forms of libertarianism, the classical liberal tradition was centrally concerned with bettering the lot of the working class. The aim, as Bentham put it, was to make the poor richer, not the rich poorer (Bentham, 1952 [1795]: vol. 1, 226n). Consequently, classical liberals reject the redistribution of wealth as a legitimate aim of government.

you've always been an asshat, jake, from the moment you got here.

that's the facts, jack

boom shaka laka laka etc

I can handle it. And you are entitled to a wrong opinion.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak,
with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility
and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306). Yet they destroyed the socialists, the communists, the democrats, cozied up to the capitalists, never nationalized industry, and so forth.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Partisan Hackery Alert. Engage at your own risk. The Author of this Thread has no interest in Real Debate.

She is 100% sure of her Premise and is simply looking for a chance to call you some names.

The trolls of the far right look extremely stupid on this topic. Nothing new here.

 

[Artevelde]

Doubt that Hitler had the support of the conservative right wing?

1. "Hitler found his greatest support in traditionally conservative small towns. He campaigned with attacks on Marxism, making it clear that by Marxism he meant the Social Democrats. Hitler appealed to morality, attacking free love and what he inferred was the immorality of Berlin and some other major cities. He promised to stamp out big city corruption. He called for a spiritual revolution, for a "positive Christianity" and a spirit of national pride. Hitler repeatedly called for national renewal. He and his National Socialists benefited from the recent upheaval in the Soviet Union and the rise in fear and disgust for Bolshevism. His party's posters read:

If you want your country to go Bolshevik, vote Communist. If you want to remain free Germans, vote for the National Socialists."

Hitler and Germany: 1928 to 1935

2. Neville Chamberlain, appeaser in chief, after the Sudetenland was handed over to Hitler, "But the Conservative leader has always expressed his desire to find a peaceful solution to the Fuehrer's wish to create a new - and enlarged - German homeland in Europe."

BBC ON THIS DAY | 30 | 1938: 'Peace for our time' - Chamberlain

3. The French right admired Hitler, "When Socialists and Communists formed a Popular front Government in 1936 there were many French conservatives who boldly announced that Hitler was preferrable to the leadership of the French socialist Leon Blum."

Road to War

4. "right-to-work" anti-labor conservatives were also pro-Hitler. "There were a mulitude of other racists jumping on the Fascist bandwagon. Joseph P. Kamp printed over two million copies of his anti-labor pamphlet, "Join the C.I.O. and Help Build a Soviet America" which he advertised with the Ku Klux Klan. Millionaire John Kirby in Houston began publishing the anti-black, anti-labor Christian American in support of "right to work" legislation"

Support for Hitler (or Fascism) in the United States | Radical Reference

5. Foreshadowing Republican views on the Clinton being concerned about bin laden as a distraction from Lewinsky, "The former president, Herbert Hoover, had become the Republican Party's chief spokesman in foreign affairs, and when Germany seized Moravia and Bohemia, Hoover declared that no clear and present danger existed and that Britain, France and others in Europe would be able to defend themselves should there be war. Hoover spoke of Roosevelt's "dangerous adventures" and argued that Roosevelt was trying to divert people's attention from his failure to end the depression"

The United States, War Preparation, China, and Jewish Immigration: 1938-39

A few facts:

1. Hitler was contemptuous of traditions and of the traditional conservative elite in Germany. He always considered his seizure of power a revolution. And he did indeed revolutionize Germany.

2. Hitler introduced large-scale and imperative economic planning, massive public works projects, and other "progressive" projects to jump-start the German economy and fight unemployment.

3. During the first phase of the Second World War (1939-1941) Hitler's most valuable ally and support on the international stage was the Soviet Union.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Sorry ravi...if anyone gives me the hitler feeling.... its obama.

Nah, MessiahRushie and Hitler were twin sons of different mothers.

The leader of genius must have the ability to make different opponents appear as if they belonged to one category.
Adolf Hitler

May 12, 2008
RUSH: I maintain that moderates and independents are Democrats. Because, by definition, if someone or some organization is not conservative, it's by definition going to be liberal, not moderate, not independent, it's going to be liberal

When Rush becomes a political leader such as president you can start worrying. But right now I would be more concerned that obama has the authority to kill any American citizen he so chooses.

 

[Charles_Main]

Partisan Hackery Alert. Engage at your own risk. The Author of this Thread has no interest in Real Debate.

She is 100% sure of her Premise and is simply looking for a chance to call you some names.

In other words, you have no rebuttal.

History has shown the truth....the conservatives at the time either welcomed Hitler or wanted to appease him.

No, In other words your childishly simplistic view of the world is not even worth debating.

I mean come on, you do not even know the history. Are you calling Chamberlin, or Joe Kennedy Conservatives? Those were the appeasers of Hitler.

You don't even play with facts, why would anyone engage you in debate.

 

[Charles_Main]

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak,
with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility
and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306). Yet they destroyed the socialists, the communists, the democrats, cozied up to the capitalists, never nationalized industry, and so forth.

What History you reading? They did indeed nationalize much Of Germany Industry.

 

[Ravi]

Partisan Hackery Alert. Engage at your own risk. The Author of this Thread has no interest in Real Debate.

She is 100% sure of her Premise and is simply looking for a chance to call you some names.

In other words, you have no rebuttal.

History has shown the truth....the conservatives at the time either welcomed Hitler or wanted to appease him.

No, In other words your childishly simplistic view of the world is not even worth debating.

I mean come on, you do not even know the history. Are you calling Chamberlin, or Joe Kennedy Conservatives? Those were the appeasers of Hitler.

You don't even play with facts, why would anyone engage you in debate.

Chamberlain was a conservative. Woot at getting lectured on facts by an idiot such as yourself.

 

[koshergrl]

Hitler was so far right he sounded like Obama.

11. The abolition of incomes unearned by work.

13. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).
14. We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises.
15. We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age.
16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, the immediate communalizing of big department stores, and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small traders in the placing of State and municiple orders.



25. To put the whole of this programme into effect, we demand the creation of a strong central state power for the Reich; the unconditional authority of the political central Parliament over the entire Reich and its organizations; and the formation of Corporations based on estate and occupation for the purpose of carrying out the general legislation passed by the Reich in the various German states.

Programme of the NSDAP, 24 February 1920

You have quoted the 25 points of the Nationalist Socilaist party in 1920. A lot happened from 1920 to 1933 when the nazis came to power. Namely, the Nazis pretty much dropped the socialist part of their ideology. Hitler learned that in order to come to power by legal means he needed to court the powers that be - the military and big business. Hitler did so by promising rearmament and the destruction of organized labor, both of which he quickly did after assuming power.

Ever wonder what happened to Gregory and Otto Strasser, two leaders of the Nazi movement who leaned towards socilalism. They were booted from the party. What about those millions of stormtroopers who helped Hitler obtain absolute power? The brownshirts were dismantled because they advocated a continuous revolution and Hitler wanted to preserve the existing power structures of the military and business to begin his road to comquest.

The Nazis never won a majority in an election. Hitler was appointed chancelor of a conservative coalition government. The social democrats and the communists were left out of this coalition.The conservatives had nothing but contempt for the democratic ideals of the Weimar Republic. They also feared the communism of the left.

Despite their name, the Nazis had little to do with sociialism. They were a party of the far right. There is no comparison to Obama and Nazi Germany in ideology or principle.

Of course there is.

Promotion of birth control and abortion, for example, among despised classes of people...the Nazis started out targeting the Poles, Obama targets poor black people.

Both Nazis and dems believe it is the responsibility of the State to provide a livelihood for citizens.

Both want to get rid of income earned by work. In other words, get rid of those who have earned more than others.

Nationalization of businesses that have become trusts/corporations.

Profit sharing in industry.

Mandatory insurance.

Prosecution of those whose activities pose a threat to the common interest....

Education that focuses on teaching children to support the state, and all above-average or gifted students' education be funded by, and determined by, the state.

Both believe the nation''s health standards be raised by protecting mothers and infants, by prohibiting child labor.

The creation of a strong central power (in the case of Nazis.."for the Reich").

The primary tenets of Nazism.

Also embraced by democrats in the US, and progressives worldwide.

Oh, and lest we forget...they also believed in providing the Reich the authority to take whatever land it wanted, for the "public" good.

So while they did lip service to capitalism, in reality, they were structured as a progressive state. Which is why Progressives flocked to them, and still support the backbone of the Nazi party....selective breeding, abortion, culling.

Internet History Sourcebooks

 

[JakeStarkey]

Doubt that Hitler had the support of the conservative right wing?

1. "Hitler found his greatest support in traditionally conservative small towns. He campaigned with attacks on Marxism, making it clear that by Marxism he meant the Social Democrats. Hitler appealed to morality, attacking free love and what he inferred was the immorality of Berlin and some other major cities. He promised to stamp out big city corruption. He called for a spiritual revolution, for a "positive Christianity" and a spirit of national pride. Hitler repeatedly called for national renewal. He and his National Socialists benefited from the recent upheaval in the Soviet Union and the rise in fear and disgust for Bolshevism. His party's posters read:

If you want your country to go Bolshevik, vote Communist. If you want to remain free Germans, vote for the National Socialists."

Hitler and Germany: 1928 to 1935

2. Neville Chamberlain, appeaser in chief, after the Sudetenland was handed over to Hitler, "But the Conservative leader has always expressed his desire to find a peaceful solution to the Fuehrer's wish to create a new - and enlarged - German homeland in Europe."

BBC ON THIS DAY | 30 | 1938: 'Peace for our time' - Chamberlain

3. The French right admired Hitler, "When Socialists and Communists formed a Popular front Government in 1936 there were many French conservatives who boldly announced that Hitler was preferrable to the leadership of the French socialist Leon Blum."

Road to War

4. "right-to-work" anti-labor conservatives were also pro-Hitler. "There were a mulitude of other racists jumping on the Fascist bandwagon. Joseph P. Kamp printed over two million copies of his anti-labor pamphlet, "Join the C.I.O. and Help Build a Soviet America" which he advertised with the Ku Klux Klan. Millionaire John Kirby in Houston began publishing the anti-black, anti-labor Christian American in support of "right to work" legislation"

Support for Hitler (or Fascism) in the United States | Radical Reference

5. Foreshadowing Republican views on the Clinton being concerned about bin laden as a distraction from Lewinsky, "The former president, Herbert Hoover, had become the Republican Party's chief spokesman in foreign affairs, and when Germany seized Moravia and Bohemia, Hoover declared that no clear and present danger existed and that Britain, France and others in Europe would be able to defend themselves should there be war. Hoover spoke of Roosevelt's "dangerous adventures" and argued that Roosevelt was trying to divert people's attention from his failure to end the depression"

The United States, War Preparation, China, and Jewish Immigration: 1938-39

A few facts:

1. Hitler was contemptuous of traditions and of the traditional conservative elite in Germany. He always considered his seizure of power a revolution. And he did indeed revolutionize Germany.

2. Hitler introduced large-scale and imperative economic planning, massive public works projects, and other "progressive" projects to jump-start the German economy and fight unemployment.

3. During the first phase of the Second World War (1939-1941) Hitler's most valuable ally and support on the international stage was the Soviet Union.

1. Hitler was contemptuous of everybody not Hitler.

2. Progressive projects were national reactions to the Great Depression: nothing new. This demonstrates that progressivism has left and right wings of active statism.

3. Immaterial. He would have allied with you if that was necessary. Or the devil.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak,
with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility
and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306). Yet they destroyed the socialists, the communists, the democrats, cozied up to the capitalists, never nationalized industry, and so forth.

What History you reading? They did indeed nationalize much Of Germany Industry.

Not as socialists. They worked with not nationalized German industry. They were corporatist fascists of the right wing.

 

[Liability]

Troll said something -- again?

 

[JakeStarkey]

In other words, you have no rebuttal.

History has shown the truth....the conservatives at the time either welcomed Hitler or wanted to appease him.

No, In other words your childishly simplistic view of the world is not even worth debating.

I mean come on, you do not even know the history. Are you calling Chamberlin, or Joe Kennedy Conservatives? Those were the appeasers of Hitler.

You don't even play with facts, why would anyone engage you in debate.

Chamberlain was a conservative. Woot at getting lectured on facts by an idiot such as yourself.

Chamberlain and Kennedy were strongly conservative. Many appeasers of Hitler were conservative. Look at Charles Lindbergh.

 

[L.K.Eder]

ah, a hitler thread.