Hiroshima and Nagasaki - did they really end the war.

Discussion in 'History' started by JoeB131, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. JoeB131
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    JoeB131 Diamond Member

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    Not really.

    This is one of the myths we Americans like to tell ourselves, but the Japanese Surrender had a lot more to do with the fact the USSR entered the Pacific War.

    Japan's goal in 1945 was not to win. They knew they were done. It was to get a favorable peace. One that let them keep some of their gains in China. When the USSR entered the war on August 8th, and started rolling up their Armies in a few days, they knew they had no real options. Eithere Japan could be entirely occuppied by the US, or partioned like Germany.

    And there were enough horror stories about what the soviets were doing in East Germany to make that an easy pick.

    The bombs, on the other hand, didn't do that much damage. They were relatively low kilotons, we had devastated Japans cities with conventional bombing and killed far more people that way.
     
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  2. Warrior102
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    Warrior102 Gold Member

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    I lived on Kyushu, close to Nagasaki. Been there many times. Beautiful city (today).

    Trust me - the bombs did MUCH damage. 90,000–166,000 killed in Hiroshima, 60,000–80,000 killed in Nagasaki

    You don't find that significant ?
     
  3. rightwinger
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    rightwinger Paid Messageboard Poster Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I think his point was that we could have done as much damage with conventional bombing. Like the firebombing of Tokyo. They didn't surrender after that one
     
  4. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    Government notes FROM the Japanese Government at the time prove conclusively that the Emperor forced the Army running the Government to surrender after the second atomic bomb. And even with their LIVING GOD demanding a surrender with no terms, the Imperial Army mounted a Coup to prevent his recorded words from being broadcast and to prevent the surrender.

    Prior to the bombs Japan's Government DEMANDED terms that were not surrender. Even the OP admits that.
     
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  5. Divine.Wind
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    Divine.Wind American Moderate Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Nukes ended the war. Almost half a million Americans died in only four years of fighting. WWII was devastating on a global scale. The goal was to end it as quickly as possible due to the severe loss of life being incurred.

    Operation Downfall, the invasion of Japan, were projected to be "extremely high for both sides: depending on the degree to which Japanese civilians resisted the invasion, estimates ran into the millions for Allied casualties and tens of millions for Japanese casualties."

    The battles of Okinawa and Iwo Jima gave indications of how high the casualty rates would be on both sides. We've lost about 7000 American deaths in 10 years of fighting in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Can anyone imagine the calamity of losing that many in a single battle with even bigger battles on the horizon? If given the choice to drop a new weapon as a means to force surrender or invade and incur tens of thousands of more dead Americans, I wouldn't have to think twice on my choice.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 9, 2011
  6. martybegan
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    martybegan Gold Member

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    The US also bluffed by implying they had many more bombs. The Japanese were facing destruction against a foe they couldn't fight back against. The B-29's flew too high for effective AA fire, and were almost as fast at that altitude as the best Japanese fighter availible. Even if they could try to shoot it down, all the US would have to do is send 50 bombers out, with only 1 carrying the A-bomb in the middle of the formation.

    I think it was the inability to fight back is what made the Emperor force a surrender.
     
  7. whitehall
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    whitehall Gold Member

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    You opened a big can 'O worms with this one joe. The winner writes the history books. The fact is that Japan was defeated before we dropped the Bombs. The Bushido holdouts were trying to negotiate a surrender but Harry Truman wouldn't negotiate because of FDR. Before he died the possibly brain damaged FDR decreed that the US would only accept "unconditional surrender". Japan was trying to negotiate terms of surrender through Stalin and the sticky point was the preservation of the emperor. Ironically Hirohito was not hanged and we dropped the bombs anyway. Civilian life was cheap during WW2. It's hard to imagine killing tens of thousands of civilians in a fireball and having another ten thousand die of radiation poisoning in order to force the military to surrender but that's the way it happened.
     
  8. Sallow
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    Sallow The Big Bad Wolf. Supporting Member

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    Oh gosh really?

    Those bombs did an immense amount of damage. And they shook the national psyche. I've been to Japan many times. And the war is still very fresh in the minds of the Japanese.
     
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  9. High_Gravity
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    High_Gravity Belligerent Drunk Supporting Member

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    The nukes we dropped on Japan didn't doo that much damage? you are either high or a fuckin idiot, maybe both in your case.:cuckoo:
     
  10. martybegan
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    martybegan Gold Member

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    Yes, Japan was practially defeated, but their leadership would not admit to it. They were actually asking for 4 conditions, not just the emperor being able to remain in power. This included any war crime trials to be done by the Japanese themselves, no occupation of Japan proper, no disarming of its remaining soliders, and finally no effect to the emperor's power.

    The allies were going for the same conditions they gave the Germans, and the Japanese were not having any of it.
     

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