Hillary's Image: Shattering the Grand Illusion

Discussion in 'USMB Breaking News' started by Mrs. M., Oct 23, 2016.

  1. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

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    More people are more comfortable or resigned to being lied to. I don't know a lot of people willing to look at and acknowledge the real problems and solutions needed to correct govt and economic problems, much less "take the responsibility" to initiate and manage such reforms.

    So given the two choice, of admitting the system is messed up and agreeing to take responsibility for corrections DIRECTLY
    vs.
    letting politicians tell you they can fix things through govt and keep footing the bill to taxpayers to pay in later generations

    Most people I know either accept the latter,
    willingly or unwillingly,
    and don't really know how or have faith that there are ways the people
    can take on the changes needed to do otherwise.

    So people are either resigned or feel stuck.
    Regardless what they think about Clinton.

    the path of least resistance is to go along with the media image
    that Clinton can say all the right things that people want to hear
    while govt remains a mess. so at least that is a steady image to prop up.
    while nothing changes, and we're still facing the same messes,
    or more to come, to fix on our own. We'll be lucky if we can organize
    and use the parties to help support promote solutions to these problems
    that govt is not going to fix for us. The people within the parties who can
    orchestrate corrections are the leaders who will rise to the top.
    And the real diplomats and peacemakers who can work and unite
    diverse people and groups will be the successful leaders, not the divisive politicians.
     
  2. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    The fact is that our system, Emily, is that of a constitutional republic, means the voters' duties are to elect representatives.

    If they elect poorly, that is on the voters.
     
  3. james bond
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    james bond Silver Member

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    Clinton was on top of the world with after the planned Trump Tapes release, but the Wikileaks of emails have derailed her. Just look at the headlines and worse is yet to come:
     
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  4. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    OK.
     
  5. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

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    ^ Jake "I personally ave 23,000 Fake Hillary Accounts" Starkey
     
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  6. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

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    Yes and No JakeStarkey
    Just because someone "gets elected"
    DOES NOT GIVE THEM FREE REIGN
    to pass and enforce "whatever policy" gets approved by majority rule by courts and congress.

    The final check on govt is the people.
    If we don't consent, we push for change.

    The problem is we aren't HEARING each other's objections.
    So we keep relying on "political parties" to BULLY when one side objects but the other side isn't accepting the correction.

    The responsibility on people is MUCH MORE than just "who we vote for"

    We must vote every day with our words, actions, MONEY, labor whatever policy we SUPPORT and invest in.

    So if people like you keep ENFORCING the idea that govt can mandate health care policies
    against the will and consent of taxpayers, or other people similarly authorize and approve
    govt to mandate right to life, or war contracts, or policies that allow environmental destruction,
    that's on the taxpayers for not standing united and enforcing ethical policies and standards.

    It's the same problem we are having locally with teachers and police:
    We can't just expect the people we hire to do all the law enforcement and take all the responsibility for teaching kids.
    The people have to agree to follow the laws and enforce them, and teach consistent standards.
    or that's too much work on the "hired staff" who can't effectively manage that much of the population, power and responsibility
    unless there is an agreement to SHARE the responsibility and enforce the same standards so everyone is in compliance.
    otherwise there is corruption and abuse by imbalance of responsibility and power concentrated in the hands of the few.

    That's what's wrong with running govt that way.
    You can't expect to govern all the populations and interests out of DC with just
    Congress or Courts/President. That's why we have delegated powers and jurisdiction
    to STATES in order to localize as much as possible.

    We would have to have a smaller ratio of population to each representative in charge
    if you really want to delegate responsibility. More of the management needs to be
    on the local level and then we can have representative democracy, where it builds
    upward like a pyramid.

    The direction should be that the grassroots members form agreements and the policies
    reflect that collective agreement. Then move up the scale where the SMALLEST
    amount of govt is at the top where everyone AGREES.

    And where we diverge with diverse beliefs and interests,
    the broader base remains at the bottom where individuals and states
    retain freedom and responsibility to develop their own programs -- not dictated from the top down.

    The reason we have people dictating from the top down is
    * the bureaucracy we have now is unmanageable and cannot be navigated
    therefore the backlog and red tape prevents solutions from getting anywhere
    and people resort to railroading compromised and porkbarrelled type legislation through to get anything at all through
    * people are at different levels of education, independence or dependence on govt,
    financial political and social development, and also have different BELIEFS about govt
    so it's hard to get a consensus when interests and ideas are competing for dominance
    instead of coordinating people by groups that do represent them and delegating resources
    that way, where everyone can coordinate in the ways that work for them without conflict.

    Not everyone is trained to even seek such coordination, consensus and inclusion
    so it's no wonder we have strayed so far.

    out of pure necessity, we will have no choice but to organize based on like beliefs
    and coordinate resources by political affiliations and social level of development so
    everyone's interests and beliefs are represented and protected equally.

    The same way the 13 original colonies had to unite and still protect the sovereignty
    and identity of each separate state, we need to do the same with parties;
    unite while recognizing the sovereignty of each party's identity with relation to its membership
    base and allow representation and investment of resources accordingly.

    We can have united parties and still recognize individual management of each one unto itself,
    instead of this competition for power and dominance going on.

    JakeStarkey if we had States at war to force each other under the dominant policies of the other,
    then all States would lose ability to represent and protect their own interests while fighting such oppression.

    But today we are running a system that rewards parties for bullying by coercion and exclusion,
    conspiring to censor the beliefs of the other party members by pushing the dominant belief through govt, etc.

    so we all lose our equal rights to representation, democratic process, and protection of laws
    by allowing these to be suppressed by other parties abusing majority rule.

    Now we've had this discussion before regarding
    the difference between SECULAR policies where people AGREE to whatever policy passes by process
    of majority vote;
    VS issues of BELIEF that even a majority rule does not authorize govt to endorse establish or impose.

    And the problem we have is that
    religious beliefs are not clearly and legally
    defined to specify how to manage
    Political Beliefs or things that people don't agree are beliefs or not
    (such as right to health care or orientation/transgender identity
    that aren't recognized as optional beliefs though people are arguing they are)

    I'm okay if people CONSENT to compromising policies passed by majority rule or
    executive order/court ruling that the people AGREE is within Constitutional process.

    But what is causing the problems is coercion going on
    OUTSIDE Constitutional limits
    (including issues of BELIEFS, influence by media or by party
    when neither of these are policed or bound by Constitutional process,
    Corporate influence and resources skewing the process without Constitutional check,
    etc.)

    Since we don't have Constitutional laws that directly check these other
    influences on our democratic/representative process,
    that's why I appeal to people to enforce Constitutional standards
    directly and uniformly ANYWAY.

    As I cited before, the example of the difference it makes when the
    community or population ALL agree to follow the laws,
    instead of just expecting teachers or police to enforce or teach standards.

    So it is more responsibility than just voting and expecting other people to do all this work.
    Each citizen cannot be contributing to unconstitutional bureaucracy and backlog
    by paying taxes into govt abuse and waste and allowing resources to go unchecked.

    We have to take responsibility as taxpayers for where our money labor and support goes.
    We can't expect hired help to magically represent us when there are more people
    and more diverse parties than each one of them can possible manage and represent.
     
  7. JakeStarkey
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    JakeStarkey Diamond Member Supporting Member

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    Emily, you along with Holly, you are wonderful hearted and spirited.

    I have but one question for you now: how much sleep do you require in 24 hours?
     

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