Hillary says NRA needs a "rival" organization of responsible gun owners

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Lakhota, Jan 5, 2016.

  1. Care4all
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    Care4all Warrior Princess Supporting Member

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    YOU ARE WRONG on this...after Straw Purchases, (which are bought from a gun store)


    The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.

    According to a recent ATF report, there is a significant diversion to the illegal gun market from FFLs. The report states that "of the 120,370 crime guns that were traced to purchases from the FFLs then in business, 27.7 % of these firearms were seized by law enforcement in connection with a crime within two years of the original sale. This rapid `time to crime' of a gun purchased from an FFL is a strong indicator that the initial seller or purchaser may have been engaged in unlawful activity."

    The report goes on to state that "over-the-counter purchases are not the only means by which guns reach the illegal market from FFLs" and reveals that 23,775 guns have been reported lost, missing or stolen from FFLs since September 13, 1994, when a new law took effect requiring dealers to report gun thefts within 48 hours. This makes the theft of 6,000 guns reported in the CIR/Frontline show "Hot Guns" only 25% of all cases reported to ATF in the past two and one-half years.

    Another large source of guns used in crimes are unlicensed street dealers who either get their guns through illegal transactions with licensed dealers, straw purchases, or from gun thefts. These illegal dealers turn around and sell these illegally on the street. An additional way criminals gain access to guns is family and friends, either through sales, theft or as gifts.


    frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS
     
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  2. BULLDOG
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    BULLDOG Platinum Member

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    Exactly who has complained about how you use your guns? As long as you don't intentionally scare people by prancing around town with one or oppose reasonable steps to keep them out of bad guy,s hands, you are just like any of the other millions of reasonable gun owners . We both know people whose guns are never unloaded, and want to make sure everybody knows they are always armed. Those are the people that scare me.
     
  3. OKTexas
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    OKTexas Platinum Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Stolen guns are a source of weapons for criminals

    All stolen guns are available to criminals by definition. Recent studies of adult and juvenile offenders show that many have either stolen a firearm or kept, sold, or traded a stolen firearm.

    • According to the 1991 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those inmates who possessed a handgun, 9% had acquired it through theft and 28% had acquired it through an illegal market such as a drug dealer or fence. Of all inmates, 10% had stolen at least one gun, and 11% had sold or traded stolen guns.

    • Studies of adult and juvenile offenders that the Virginia Department of Criminal Justice Services conducted in 1992 and 1993 found that 15% of the adult offenders and 19% of the juvenile offenders had stolen guns; 16% of the adults and 24% of the juveniles had kept a stolen gun; and 20% of the adults and 30% of the juveniles had sold or traded a stolen gun.

    • From a sample of juvenile inmates in four States, Sheley and Wright found that more than 50% had stolen a gun at least once in their lives and 24% had stolen their most recently obtained handgun. They concluded that theft and burglary were the original, not always the proximate, source of many guns acquired by the juveniles.
    How many guns are stolen?

    The Victim Survey (NCVS) estimates that there were 341,000 incidents of firearm theft from private citizens annually from 1987-92. Since the survey does not ask how many guns were stolen, the number of guns stolen probably exceeds the number of incidents of gun theft.

    The FBI's National Crime Information Center (NCIC) stolen gun file contained over 2 million reports as of March 1995. In 1994, over 306,000 entries were added to this file including a variety of guns, ammunition, cannons and grenades. Reports of stolen guns are included in the NCIC files when citizens report the theft to law enforcement agencies which submit a report to the FBI. All entries must include make, caliber, and serial number. Initiated in 1967, the NCIC stolen gun file retains all entries indefinitely unless a recovery is reported.

    Most stolen guns are handguns

    Victims report to the Victim Survey that in 53% of the thefts of guns, handguns were stolen. The FBI's stolen gun file's 2 million reports include information on--

    • 1.26 million handguns (almost 60%)

    • 470,000 rifles (22%)

    • 356,000 shotguns (17%).
    From 1985 to 1994, the FBI received an annual average of over 274,000 reports of stolen guns

    Guns Used In Crime, Feature Articles- FirearmsID.com
     
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  4. Care4all
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    by Dan Noyes, Center for Investigative Reporting
    Ask a cop on the beat how criminals get guns and you're likely to hear this hard boiled response: "They steal them." But this street wisdom is wrong, according to one frustrated Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agent who is tired of battling this popular misconception. An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.



    In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.
     
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  5. OKTexas
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    Oh boy, two links quoting the same guy tell the same story, who would have possibly thunk that?

    I guess the criminals in the studies I linked to just don't know what they're talking about and there aren't more than a quarter million stolen guns a year. which by it's very definition places those guns in the hands of criminals. Carry on, I think you have yourself convinced.
     
  6. C_Clayton_Jones
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    "Hillary says NRA needs a "rival" organization of responsible gun owners"

    Actually, NRA members – the vast majority of whom are responsible gun owners – need to demand the Association get out of politics and focus instead on guns and support of appropriate, responsible, and Constitutional gun measures.
     
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  7. OKTexas
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    Folks like you are the very reason I joined the NRA last month, first time in my in my life. I will encourage them to stand fast against every one of your regressive measures. Here's an idea, how about actually enforcing the current laws on the books and actually hold criminals accountable. Of course that would cost the regressivecrats some votes so you can't have that.
     
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  8. Claudette
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    Of course they believe that. If they didn't they wouldn't be lefty loons who know what's best for everyone.

    I'm a responsible gun owner as well. My shotgun is for self defense. I will have no problem using it.

    Most people are responsible owners. The few that aren't paint everyone with a gun as a nut job.

    Never forget. The gun is the tool. The one using it is the weapon.

    Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
     
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  9. xband
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    xband Gold Member

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    What we need is more responsible trained gun owners. Those nuts in Oregon are way outside of the law and I say starve them out. When charged with mutable felonies and convicted, sorry you crazy people just lost your Second Amendment Right. Felony means a crime against the United States of America
     
  10. CrusaderFrank
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    CrusaderFrank Diamond Member

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    Even that lying twat Sotomayor had to pretend to be pro 2nd to get on SCOTUS. Hillary should come out against the 1st too while she's at it
     

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