Higher Education Bill in Congress - PASSED

[rdean]

I agree with you 1000% that an educated public makes a better informed electorate.

Unfortunately, that will not occur in a government financed and controlled school.

"Every politically controlled educational system will inculcate the doctrine of state supremacy sooner or later. . . . Once that doctrine has been accepted, it becomes an almost superhuman task to break the stranglehold of the political power over the life of the citizen. It has had his body, property and mind in its clutches from infancy. An octopus would sooner release its prey. A tax-supported, compulsory educational system is the complete model of the totalitarian state. "–Isabel Paterson, The God of the Machine (1943)

.

Christian colleges aren't "government financed" and they are mostly the lowest quality in the nation - tier four.

And you came to that conclusion how?

Bank robbers , drive Rolls Royce. Ar they a better quality of individuals?

What you are saying is not really your "concern". You are saying, "Those liberal elites want to turn our children into communists

The "progressive" -(statist) movement began in the early 1900's - after all schools have been nationalized.

If the schools are "controlled" then it's only a matter of time before we are all "controlled". Oh, panic, fear, running with hands wildly waving, HEEEELP!!! WE'RE CONTOOOOOLED!

Can you identify any aspect of our lives which is not controlled by fedgov?


.

Go though the list. Notice, some such as "Regent", are listed as "tier four" without a ranking. If are tier 3 or 4, you will not receive a rank. They don't bother with that.

Now, why would Christian colleges generally receive such low rankings? For a couple of reasons.

Most won't teach the science of evolution or anything related. That means no evolution, no paleontology, no astronomy, no plate tectonics, no geology, etc. Science is taught much more general, ie, "Natural Science".

Also,

For the law schools, the extremely low rate of passing the bar exam.

Also, engineering fields. Note: the Crystal Cathedral, considered one the greatest evangelical monuments in the US was designed by a gay man.

The Crystal Cathedral

A gay man who wasn't allowed inside the finished monument. Because he was, well, gay.

Philip Johnson - Great Buildings Online

National Universities Rankings - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report

Here is a list of tier four colleges. See how many are Christian:

Master's Universities (West) Rankings - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report

 

[rdean]

Not when it comes to republicans. Christian colleges have historically been ranked the lowest in the nation. Christian leaders have complained that to be accredited, they must teach at least a token course in "evolution".

The Bush administration peppered the Justice Department with crappy grads from those schools replacing the actual qualified which resulted in scandal after scandal.

Normally, when a new president comes in, he replaces many members of the Justice Department with people he can trust. THEN HE LEAVES THEM ALONE. Bush, illegally (God, that word seemed to follow him constantly) replaced them because he wanted them to go after Democrats. Not legal. Christians have shown themselves to be far from scrupulous as this last administration demonstrates. And which they still demonstrate with all this talk of murder and secession. That is what we refer to as "traitor".

Scandal puts spotlight on Christian law school - The Boston Globe

The graduate from Regent -- which is ranked a "tier four" school by US News & World Report, the lowest score and essentially a tie for 136th place -- was not the only lawyer with modest credentials to be hired by the Civil Rights Division after the administration imposed greater political control over career hiring.

-----------------
One third-year student, Chamie Riley , said she rejected the idea that any government official who invokes her Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination could be a good representative of Regent.

As Christians, she said, Regent students know "you should be morally upright. You should not be in a situation where you have to plead the Fifth." (and yet they were Chamie, they were)

Rdean, the OP was and is about student loans and the availability of a broad base of access to those loans or a reduction of availability to one source, the government. Since loans have been guaranteed heretofore by the government - a good thing - they have been broadly available to any person serious about their higher education, whether they preferred a Christian school or any other.

Serious students in high school could go to a local bank, and the bank would, by simply drawing up a pro-forma application process their loan, and make certain the applicant repaid it, with the government forced to guarantee the loan only as a last resort. Banks provided the agency of collection. This ensured an interest by the business community in the advancement of education of local people, with the hope that by advancing their education they would be more responsible and prosperous citizens, which would be a better environment economically and civilly all around. The banker would also have references with which to evaluate the character qualities of the applicant.

Up to now applicants could count on timely processing of their loans, and going to the government has been a last resort.

This new scheme will force private lenders out and the only source will be government loans. The lines will be a kind of rationing mechanism for those loans.

This likely will create a major distortion in our system of higher education. How will that be a good thing?

Funny how asshats like that don't address the subject matter but make it about anything else that has nothing to do with it.

Once they control the students money, they control what they have to do to get it. What do you want to bet "National Service" becomes a requirement to qualify?

I actually don't have much of a problem with "national service" of some type being a requirement to receive financial aid. I was in the military. It was a great experience. I received the GI bill and it helped me to become an engineer.

Some people may have a problem with military service. There are a thousand and one other things they could do to support the community in some way to qualify for financial aid. Seems all good to me. Don't see the downside.

 

[Si modo]

Yeah, those evil 'Christian colleges' like Notre Dame, the Loyolas, Seton Hall, Gonzaga, Boston College, etc. They really suck.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yep, they are good schools, like the Si Modo University of His Own Studies and Motorcycle Maintenance.

 

[The T]

Rdean, the OP was and is about student loans and the availability of a broad base of access to those loans or a reduction of availability to one source, the government. Since loans have been guaranteed heretofore by the government - a good thing - they have been broadly available to any person serious about their higher education, whether they preferred a Christian school or any other.

Serious students in high school could go to a local bank, and the bank would, by simply drawing up a pro-forma application process their loan, and make certain the applicant repaid it, with the government forced to guarantee the loan only as a last resort. Banks provided the agency of collection. This ensured an interest by the business community in the advancement of education of local people, with the hope that by advancing their education they would be more responsible and prosperous citizens, which would be a better environment economically and civilly all around. The banker would also have references with which to evaluate the character qualities of the applicant.

Up to now applicants could count on timely processing of their loans, and going to the government has been a last resort.

This new scheme will force private lenders out and the only source will be government loans. The lines will be a kind of rationing mechanism for those loans.

This likely will create a major distortion in our system of higher education. How will that be a good thing?

Funny how asshats like that don't address the subject matter but make it about anything else that has nothing to do with it.

Once they control the students money, they control what they have to do to get it. What do you want to bet "National Service" becomes a requirement to qualify?

I actually don't have much of a problem with "national service" of some type being a requirement to receive financial aid. I was in the military. It was a great experience. I received the GI bill and it helped me to become an engineer.

Some people may have a problem with military service. There are a thousand and one other things they could do to support the community in some way to qualify for financial aid. Seems all good to me. Don't see the downside.

I guess working a JOB to help pay for it is now out of vogue?

[And NO this isn't a slap at you for your Military Service, or the GI Bill]...Being a Veteran myself.

I am just asking why so many think they're 'entitled' by virtue of just being BORN here.

It doesn't wash, and there's something to be said of working for what you get. YOU did that...maybe some will see your example and follow suit?

 

[The T]

Yep, they are good schools, like the Si Modo University of His Own Studies and Motorcycle Maintenance.

In case I haven't said so? I want this point accentuated...

You are a dispicable human being for that post.

 

[Oddball]

Yep, they are good schools, like the Si Modo University of His Own Studies and Motorcycle Maintenance.

You, sir, are an ASSHOLE!

 

[rdean]

Yeah, those evil 'Christian colleges' like Notre Dame, the Loyolas, Seton Hall, Gonzaga, Boston College, etc. They really suck.

Uh, gee, I hate to break it to ya sparky, but I said "most" and not "all".

Besides, can you even count "Catholic" colleges when they actively promote the sciences, including, get this, "EVOLUTION"? Comment?

 

[Darkwind]

Yeah, those evil 'Christian colleges' like Notre Dame, the Loyolas, Seton Hall, Gonzaga, Boston College, etc. They really suck.

Uh, gee, I hate to break it to ya sparky, but I said "most" and not "all".

Besides, can you even count "Catholic" colleges when they actively promote the sciences, including, get this, "EVOLUTION"? Comment?

A real college promote and teach ALL sides of anything. Its called "diversity in education".

 

[Si modo]

Yeah, those evil 'Christian colleges' like Notre Dame, the Loyolas, Seton Hall, Gonzaga, Boston College, etc. They really suck.

Uh, gee, I hate to break it to ya sparky, but I said "most" and not "all".

Besides, can you even count "Catholic" colleges when they actively promote the sciences, including, get this, "EVOLUTION"? Comment?

You might actually post something coherent and relevant if you stopped all your frothing generalizations about Republicans and/or Christians. Your generalizations are just so easy to refute. Maybe you might learn; maybe not. But rest assured you continue to open the door for making yourself look the fool so often.

And why the fuck would I even comment on evolution? You are well aware (assuming you can read threads in which you participate) of any views I have on that matter (pay attention or put your bong down - don't post like a dishonest buffoon).

 

[eagleseven]

I guess working a JOB to help pay for it is now out of vogue?

[And NO this isn't a slap at you for your Military Service, or the GI Bill]...Being a Veteran myself.

I am just asking why so many think they're 'entitled' by virtue of just being BORN here.

It doesn't wash, and there's something to be said of working for what you get. YOU did that...maybe some will see your example and follow suit?

What job, fresh out of high-school, can you work part-time that will cover the $40,000 a year tuition at the top schools in the country? Or, for that matter, what unskilled part-time job will cover the $15,000 a year cost of public university?

Unless you are one of the lucky ones with a full scholarship, you will go into serious debt by attending college.

 

[The T]

Yeah, those evil 'Christian colleges' like Notre Dame, the Loyolas, Seton Hall, Gonzaga, Boston College, etc. They really suck.

Uh, gee, I hate to break it to ya sparky, but I said "most" and not "all".

Besides, can you even count "Catholic" colleges when they actively promote the sciences, including, get this, "EVOLUTION"? Comment?

A real college promote and teach ALL sides of anything. Its called "diversity in education".

Bingo. By this reckoning? Most college students aren't getting what they paid for.

 

[Modbert]

What job, fresh out of high-school, can you work part-time that will cover the $40,000 a year tuition at the top schools in the country? Or, for that matter, what unskilled part-time job will cover the $15,000 a year cost of public university?

Unless you are one of the lucky ones with a full scholarship, you will go into serious debt by attending college.

No common sense allowed!

Seriously, I don't see how most people can attend college today with the prices unless they are rich or get full ride scholarships without taking out a loan.

 

[The T]

I guess working a JOB to help pay for it is now out of vogue?

[And NO this isn't a slap at you for your Military Service, or the GI Bill]...Being a Veteran myself.

I am just asking why so many think they're 'entitled' by virtue of just being BORN here.

It doesn't wash, and there's something to be said of working for what you get. YOU did that...maybe some will see your example and follow suit?

What job, fresh out of high-school, can you work part-time that will cover the $40,000 a year tuition at the top schools in the country? Or, for that matter, what unskilled part-time job will cover the $15,000 a year cost of public university?

Unless you are one of the lucky ones with a full scholarship, you will go into serious debt by attending college.

Lucky ones? Define 'Lucky' for the rest of the assembled class here sport. There used to be a time where you EARNED what you received.

You think it's OK to award something just upon merit of citizenship alone?

And in that regard, even citizenship must be EARNED and maintained. Sorry if these thoughts irritate you.

With citizenship comes work and responsibility to EARN it.

 

[rdean]

Funny how asshats like that don't address the subject matter but make it about anything else that has nothing to do with it.

Once they control the students money, they control what they have to do to get it. What do you want to bet "National Service" becomes a requirement to qualify?

I actually don't have much of a problem with "national service" of some type being a requirement to receive financial aid. I was in the military. It was a great experience. I received the GI bill and it helped me to become an engineer.

Some people may have a problem with military service. There are a thousand and one other things they could do to support the community in some way to qualify for financial aid. Seems all good to me. Don't see the downside.

I guess working a JOB to help pay for it is now out of vogue?

[And NO this isn't a slap at you for your Military Service, or the GI Bill]...Being a Veteran myself.

I am just asking why so many think they're 'entitled' by virtue of just being BORN here.

It doesn't wash, and there's something to be said of working for what you get. YOU did that...maybe some will see your example and follow suit?

I sure did work hard. The University I attended was only teir three (I admit it) but it was all I could afford. Even with the GI bill, I still ended up with 58 thousand in loans which I completely paid back. I was on the national deans list every semester.

My boss went to the University of Chicago (ranked 8th in the nation) and his parents paid for everything. He had a degree by the time he was 23. He told me that knowing me makes him appreciate what his parents did for him.

I went to school part time from 30 to 40 years old. I probably could have gone sooner since I was out of the military by 25, but I took guitar lessons, voice lessons, studied art. All the things that weren't allowed when I was a kid. However, it worked out.

The year I started college, the 8088 was introduced, then the 286, the 386, then 486, then Pentium, and so on. I was moved into engineering from the assembly line because the company I worked at bought two computers and no one knew how they worked. Funny that.

If I could have gotten a little more help; I would have appreciated it greatly.

When I look at John McCain and George Bush, I just shake my head. Rich white people's affirmative action. Jumped over thousands more qualifed for no other reasen than they are rich.

 

[Si modo]

Uh, gee, I hate to break it to ya sparky, but I said "most" and not "all".

Besides, can you even count "Catholic" colleges when they actively promote the sciences, including, get this, "EVOLUTION"? Comment?

A real college promote and teach ALL sides of anything. Its called "diversity in education".

Bingo. By this reckoning? Most college students aren't getting what they paid for.

Not necessarily. It would depend on the individual prof at any university. Academic freedom is still guarded ferociously by faculty.

 

[eagleseven]

Yeah, those evil 'Christian colleges' like Notre Dame, the Loyolas, Seton Hall, Gonzaga, Boston College, etc. They really suck.

Uh, gee, I hate to break it to ya sparky, but I said "most" and not "all".

Besides, can you even count "Catholic" colleges when they actively promote the sciences, including, get this, "EVOLUTION"? Comment?

Moron.

The Catholic Church openly supports evolution, and teaches evolutionary theory in all of its schools across the country. Catholicism is the largest denomination of Christianity, with over 1.1 billion members.

Notre Dame University: Ecology, Evolution and Environment

The Environment Begins in the Life Sciences

In the 21st century, rapid globalization and related global changes have placed environmental issues at the forefront of scientific inquiry. Emerging diseases, invasive species, chemical pollution, and global warming are but a few of the serious threats facing our planet's inhabitants. Environmental research and scholarship begin with understanding the relationship between organisms and their environment, whose core is in the Life Sciences. The Department of Biological Sciences has assembled a strong and interactive group of faculty who study the natural and human-modified environment. Our faculty apply ecological and evolutionary principles to address questions of major environmental importance. These questions are addressed in the laboratory and in the field, across North America and on other continents, and from the genome to the landscape.

Notre Dame University: Population & Evolutionary Genetics

 

[ba1614]

Rdean, the OP was and is about student loans and the availability of a broad base of access to those loans or a reduction of availability to one source, the government. Since loans have been guaranteed heretofore by the government - a good thing - they have been broadly available to any person serious about their higher education, whether they preferred a Christian school or any other.

Serious students in high school could go to a local bank, and the bank would, by simply drawing up a pro-forma application process their loan, and make certain the applicant repaid it, with the government forced to guarantee the loan only as a last resort. Banks provided the agency of collection. This ensured an interest by the business community in the advancement of education of local people, with the hope that by advancing their education they would be more responsible and prosperous citizens, which would be a better environment economically and civilly all around. The banker would also have references with which to evaluate the character qualities of the applicant.

Up to now applicants could count on timely processing of their loans, and going to the government has been a last resort.

This new scheme will force private lenders out and the only source will be government loans. The lines will be a kind of rationing mechanism for those loans.

This likely will create a major distortion in our system of higher education. How will that be a good thing?

Funny how asshats like that don't address the subject matter but make it about anything else that has nothing to do with it.

Once they control the students money, they control what they have to do to get it. What do you want to bet "National Service" becomes a requirement to qualify?

I actually don't have much of a problem with "national service" of some type being a requirement to receive financial aid. I was in the military. It was a great experience. I received the GI bill and it helped me to become an engineer.

Some people may have a problem with military service. There are a thousand and one other things they could do to support the community in some way to qualify for financial aid. Seems all good to me. Don't see the downside.

Of course you don't, you want government to make all your decisions for you.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

I agree. I'm sick of education. We want our children uneducated. Who needs it? Can a Republican name a single good thing that ever came from education?

Stating that the federal government has no business in the business of regulating and funding the education of the respective states, is not the same thing as being against education. Not even close. Is that the best you can do, in making an argument?

Can you make a point that isn't laced with partisan hack sauce? Your noodles are way overcooked.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

A real college promote and teach ALL sides of anything. Its called "diversity in education".

Bingo. By this reckoning? Most college students aren't getting what they paid for.

Not necessarily. It would depend on the individual prof at any university. Academic freedom is still guarded ferociously by faculty.

Evil faculty circus peanut eating members.