High Schools Failing to Prepare Students for College

[JoeMoma]

Are all students, home schooled or not, capable of a college education?

Easy question, especially the way you used the word "All! No!

 

[JoeMoma]

Let's see.....I've smacked you in the kisser twice? Thrice?

Let's make it a quad:


"...new research showing that the average home-schooler who takes standardized achievement tests is doing very well. The study, commissioned by the Home School Legal Defense Association and conducted by Brian Ray, an internationally recognized scholar and president of the nonprofit National Home Education Research Institute (NHERI), is called “Progress Report 2009: Homeschool Academic Achievement and Demographics.”

The study included almost 12,000 home-school students from all 50 states who took three well-known standardized achievements tests — the California Achievement Test, the Iowa Test of Basic Skills and the Stanford Achievement Test — for the 2007-08 academic year. The students were drawn from 15 independent testing services, making it the most comprehensive home-school academic study to date.

The results reinforced previous home-school studies conducted over a period of 25 years.

Five areas of academic pursuit were measured. In reading, the average home-schooler scored at the 89th percentile; language, 84th percentile; math, 84th percentile; science, 86th percentile; and social studies, 84th percentile. In the core studies (reading, language and math), the average home-schooler scored at the 88th percentile.

The average public school student taking these standardized tests scored at the 50th percentile in each subject area."
HOME-SCHOOLING: Outstanding results on national tests




So.....your fallacious argument is destroyed yet again.

What more is there to say, except that you have been proven....proven....to be a dunce and a liar.



I'm gonna guess that anyone who has had to deal with you knows that early on.

True?

Once again you have proven yourself a poor reader and simply do not understand the problem.

Those "standardized tests" you cite are NOT given in most schools. In fact, in 20 years of teaching, in numerous schools districts, in two states and for the Department of Defense, only the Stanford Achievement Test was ever given and that was to the Department of Defense Dependent Schools, of which there are a whopping two small high schools in the entire DODEA system here in the US.

You need to take a good statistics course at the college level to understand why your comparisons are simply invalid,

You can quote your biased statistics all day long, but the truth is that there is no valid comparison possible until ALL home-schooled children are required to take the same tests as the public and charter school students.

That is why most comparisons between charter and public schools are also invalid.

Keep on trying if you want to waste your time and embarrass yourself even further, but I getting tired of handing your ass to you and you blowing it off because you are simply too ignorant to understand the issue.

I've already proven you a liar and a dunce.

What more is there to say?

You haven't proven anything about me. All you did is prove how little you know about education, statistics, and reading comprehension.

The only thing left to say is that you apologize for being a dick and admit your error.

OK, you dunce....who's your mama???

Admit it- I spanked you good and plenty.


Now...say it: homeschooling has been proven...PROVEN....better than government schooling.


Then....back into the sewer with you.

Except 90% of parents don't have the time to home school because it takes both of them working to survive. 85% of kids in this country go to public school and it works for the most part...Do you really want to destroy something that works 80%+ of the time?

Why do you think home schooling would destroy public schooling? It's not going to do that. Home schooling is not for everyone, but it works great for some.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Once again you have proven yourself a poor reader and simply do not understand the problem.

Those "standardized tests" you cite are NOT given in most schools. In fact, in 20 years of teaching, in numerous schools districts, in two states and for the Department of Defense, only the Stanford Achievement Test was ever given and that was to the Department of Defense Dependent Schools, of which there are a whopping two small high schools in the entire DODEA system here in the US.

You need to take a good statistics course at the college level to understand why your comparisons are simply invalid,

You can quote your biased statistics all day long, but the truth is that there is no valid comparison possible until ALL home-schooled children are required to take the same tests as the public and charter school students.

That is why most comparisons between charter and public schools are also invalid.

Keep on trying if you want to waste your time and embarrass yourself even further, but I getting tired of handing your ass to you and you blowing it off because you are simply too ignorant to understand the issue.

I've already proven you a liar and a dunce.

What more is there to say?

You haven't proven anything about me. All you did is prove how little you know about education, statistics, and reading comprehension.

The only thing left to say is that you apologize for being a dick and admit your error.

OK, you dunce....who's your mama???

Admit it- I spanked you good and plenty.


Now...say it: homeschooling has been proven...PROVEN....better than government schooling.


Then....back into the sewer with you.

Except 90% of parents don't have the time to home school because it takes both of them working to survive. 85% of kids in this country go to public school and it works for the most part...Do you really want to destroy something that works 80%+ of the time?

Why do you think home schooling would destroy public schooling? It's not going to do that. Home schooling is not for everyone, but it works great for some.

I am ok with home school but I don't like it when someone tries to use it as a reason to defund public education.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Let's see.....I've smacked you in the kisser twice? Thrice?

Let's make it a quad:


"...new research showing that the average home-schooler who takes standardized achievement tests is doing very well. The study, commissioned by the Home School Legal Defense Association and conducted by Brian Ray, an internationally recognized scholar and president of the nonprofit National Home Education Research Institute (NHERI), is called “Progress Report 2009: Homeschool Academic Achievement and Demographics.”

The study included almost 12,000 home-school students from all 50 states who took three well-known standardized achievements tests — the California Achievement Test, the Iowa Test of Basic Skills and the Stanford Achievement Test — for the 2007-08 academic year. The students were drawn from 15 independent testing services, making it the most comprehensive home-school academic study to date.

The results reinforced previous home-school studies conducted over a period of 25 years.

Five areas of academic pursuit were measured. In reading, the average home-schooler scored at the 89th percentile; language, 84th percentile; math, 84th percentile; science, 86th percentile; and social studies, 84th percentile. In the core studies (reading, language and math), the average home-schooler scored at the 88th percentile.

The average public school student taking these standardized tests scored at the 50th percentile in each subject area."
HOME-SCHOOLING: Outstanding results on national tests




So.....your fallacious argument is destroyed yet again.

What more is there to say, except that you have been proven....proven....to be a dunce and a liar.



I'm gonna guess that anyone who has had to deal with you knows that early on.

True?

Once again you have proven yourself a poor reader and simply do not understand the problem.

Those "standardized tests" you cite are NOT given in most schools. In fact, in 20 years of teaching, in numerous schools districts, in two states and for the Department of Defense, only the Stanford Achievement Test was ever given and that was to the Department of Defense Dependent Schools, of which there are a whopping two small high schools in the entire DODEA system here in the US.

You need to take a good statistics course at the college level to understand why your comparisons are simply invalid,

You can quote your biased statistics all day long, but the truth is that there is no valid comparison possible until ALL home-schooled children are required to take the same tests as the public and charter school students.

That is why most comparisons between charter and public schools are also invalid.

Keep on trying if you want to waste your time and embarrass yourself even further, but I getting tired of handing your ass to you and you blowing it off because you are simply too ignorant to understand the issue.

I've already proven you a liar and a dunce.

What more is there to say?

You haven't proven anything about me. All you did is prove how little you know about education, statistics, and reading comprehension.

The only thing left to say is that you apologize for being a dick and admit your error.

OK, you dunce....who's your mama???

Admit it- I spanked you good and plenty.


Now...say it: homeschooling has been proven...PROVEN....better than government schooling.


Then....back into the sewer with you.

Except 90% of parents don't have the time to home school because it takes both of them working to survive. 85% of kids in this country go to public school and it works for the most part...Do you really want to destroy something that works 80%+ of the time?

Are you the results of government schooling?

I rest my case.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

This shouldn't surprise anyone but I thought I would post it anyway. Public schools are failing miserably in this country.



Ohio.com - Colleges are spending billions on freshman remedial classes

...just as planned

 

[martybegan]

This shouldn't surprise anyone but I thought I would post it anyway. Public schools are failing miserably in this country.



Ohio.com - Colleges are spending billions on freshman remedial classes

You don't really believe that anyone who was an "A" student needed remedial English, do you?

Schools are doing better in NY. Maybe Ohio should learn from us.

Maybe in your limousine liberal school districts, but among the proles its a different story.

The real issue isn't the schools, its that we keep thinking everyone should go to college when that clearly isn't the case.

We need more vocational institutions at the college level, and more vocational tracks in our high schools.

 

[DGS49]

The culture has compromised the public school system. From "I know my RIGHTS!" to, everyone gets a trophy, to "You can't discipline my child!," to the perennial campaign to keep worthless, unmotivated, disruptive kids in school - for reasons that I refuse to accept. And the elephant in the room is, How can you expect to promote academic excellence when the majority of the teaching cadre is comprised of unionized government workers? If our worst enemy wanted to sabotage our society they could not have done a better job than we have done to ourselves.

It is a wonder that some kids manage to get through it with a decent education.

And for the record, when the "Admiral" above said that you can do a valid comparison of home-schooled vs. public schooled kids until you test ALL home schooled kids, he revealed himself as a statistical illiterate. Not that there was much doubt.

 

[hadit]

if you want your kids to get a decent education, home school them.

"Even with a conservative analysis of the data, the achievement levels of the homeschool students in the study were exceptional. Within each grade level and each skill area, the median scores for homeschool students fell between the 70th and 80th percentile of students nationwide and between the 60th and 70th percentile of Catholic/Private school students. For younger students, this is a one year lead. By the time homeschool students are in 8th grade, they are four years ahead of their public/private school counterparts."

yeah so they can be socially out of touch!

Myth. What social skills do they learn in a government school setting? How to act around a bunch of kids.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

This shouldn't surprise anyone but I thought I would post it anyway. Public schools are failing miserably in this country.



Ohio.com - Colleges are spending billions on freshman remedial classes

You don't really believe that anyone who was an "A" student needed remedial English, do you?

Schools are doing better in NY. Maybe Ohio should learn from us.

Maybe in your limousine liberal school districts, but among the proles its a different story.

The real issue isn't the schools, its that we keep thinking everyone should go to college when that clearly isn't the case.

We need more vocational institutions at the college level, and more vocational tracks in our high schools.

Then you need to change that in YOUR districts. There are many school districts that have very successful vocational school programs, often sponsored by local industry. My state has area vocational centers that serve numerous counties for students to take vocational classes.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The culture has compromised the public school system. From "I know my RIGHTS!" to, everyone gets a trophy, to "You can't discipline my child!," to the perennial campaign to keep worthless, unmotivated, disruptive kids in school - for reasons that I refuse to accept. And the elephant in the room is, How can you expect to promote academic excellence when the majority of the teaching cadre is comprised of unionized government workers? If our worst enemy wanted to sabotage our society they could not have done a better job than we have done to ourselves.

It is a wonder that some kids manage to get through it with a decent education.

And for the record, when the "Admiral" above said that you can do a valid comparison of home-schooled vs. public schooled kids until you test ALL home schooled kids, he revealed himself as a statistical illiterate. Not that there was much doubt.

Self-selection bias is a term I am certain you are unfamiliar with. Your record is simply one of failure to understand that comparing a small number of home-schoolers as being a homogeneous group when compared to public school student is simply invalid.

I suggest a college level statistics course. I teach math every day. What is your excuse?

 

[OldLady]

This shouldn't surprise anyone but I thought I would post it anyway. Public schools are failing miserably in this country.



Ohio.com - Colleges are spending billions on freshman remedial classes

It's true here in Maine as well. At least where I live. Especially in Math, but writing is close behind.

 

[OldLady]

I agree with anyone here who says part of the problem is that we are pressuring just about EVERYONE to attend college, whether they are academically suited or not. Another part of the problem is the huge pressure on high schools to graduate a greater number of students. Dropout rates reflect very poorly on a school system and the only way to keep some of these students in school is to keep passing them. Kids who are failing due to poor performance and expectations they can't or won't bother to meet will stop going. It is simple. Administrators also know the dismal future of a student without a high school diploma. So they find a way to graduate them. Then they can't make a good living, end up getting assistance, and the state/federal government puts them in a program that pushes them to attend college so they won't be on the dole.
There has to be a better way. College is not the answer for everyone. Or trade schools should not be expecting college level performance. Or something. You ask me, it's all screwed up.

 

[martybegan]

This shouldn't surprise anyone but I thought I would post it anyway. Public schools are failing miserably in this country.



Ohio.com - Colleges are spending billions on freshman remedial classes

You don't really believe that anyone who was an "A" student needed remedial English, do you?

Schools are doing better in NY. Maybe Ohio should learn from us.

Maybe in your limousine liberal school districts, but among the proles its a different story.

The real issue isn't the schools, its that we keep thinking everyone should go to college when that clearly isn't the case.

We need more vocational institutions at the college level, and more vocational tracks in our high schools.

Then you need to change that in YOUR districts. There are many school districts that have very successful vocational school programs, often sponsored by local industry. My state has area vocational centers that serve numerous counties for students to take vocational classes.

I live in NYC, and while you do have vocational high schools such as Aviation, and Automotive, they are not pushed, and the real issue is the next level, where everyone is encouraged to go to college "just because"

 

[PoliticalChic]

"Forced schooling was intended as an antidote to "corrupt parents," but not, presumably, for morally superior parents like [Horace] Mann, who continued to homeschool his own three children."
The Devastating Rise of Mass Schooling | Kerry McDonald

 

[regent]

Can anyone name the golden period of education in the United States? I wonder if it is the same period Trump is going to make America great again? Americans should know those golden periods so we know when we have returned. If Trump can't name the periods will he tell us when we have arrived?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Can anyone name the golden period of education in the United States? I wonder if it is the same period Trump is going to make America great again? Americans should know those golden periods so we know when we have returned. If Trump can't name the periods will he tell us when we have arrived?

"Can anyone name the golden period of education in the United States?"

1. Golden?
Arguably, any period before Liberals took control of what is laughingly called 'education.'



2." An 1895 8th Grade Final Exam: I Couldn't Pass It. Could You?
BY MARTIN PERETZ
November 28, 2010
An old pal from Brandeis—Sheldon Gray—has a knack for the ironic. He's very well educated, and so am I. But I don't know whether we could pass this test, from 1895 in what looks like a little red schoolhouse in Salina, Kansas, at all. Let alone with flying colors.

What it took to get an 8th grade education in 1895...

Remember when grandparents and great-grandparents stated that they only had an 8th grade education? Well, check this out. Could any of us have passed the 8th grade in 1895?

This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 in Salina , Kansas , USA .. It was taken from the original document on file at the Smokey Valley Genealogical Society and Library in Salina, and reprinted by the Salina Journal.

8th Grade Final Exam:

Salina , KS - 1895

Grammar (Time, one hour)

1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no modifications.
3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of do, lie, lay and run.
5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.
7-10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.

Arithmetic (Time, 1.25 hours)

1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50 cts. per bu, deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
4. District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
5. Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $.20 per inch?
8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance around which is 640 rods?
10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.

U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)

1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided.
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States.
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, and 1865?

Orthography (Time, one hour)

1. What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic orthography, etymology, syllabication?
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u'.
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e'. Name two exceptions under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: Bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, super.
8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: Card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences, Cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.

Geography (Time, one hour)

1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
4. Describe the mountains of N.A.
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco.
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
7. Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give inclination of the earth."





3. Guess who the President was who made the federal government the agent for labor unions, nation wide, and intra-state.....and without constitutional approval.

C'mon...guess.

Hint? His initials were 'FDR.'

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. Focus, be clear: the notion of the “peoples” of the United States is a counterpatriotic ideological weapon aimed to subordinate the ‘unum’ to the ‘pluribus.’ Too subtle, too nuanced for some….it is what is known as “rhetorical subversion.”
   1. Earlier American presidents, Republicans and Democrats alike, agreed on two basic goals: teach the newcomers English and make them Americans. The clear aim was to strengthen our national identity--to reinforce the unum in e pluribus unum--by assimilating the new arrivals into American civilization. Anti-Americanization
2. During the 1990’s, the American “peoples” found their way into academic standards and curricula. The NY State social studies curriculum was called “One Nation, Many Peoples: A Declaration of Cultural Interdependence.”
   1. Before the Left took over the Democrat Party, even liberals understood and objected. Arthur Schlesinger, jr.:” The attack on the common American identity is the culmination of the cult of ethnicity. That attack was mounted in the first instance by European Americans of non-British origin (“unmeltable ethnics”) against the British foundations of American culture; then, latterly and massively, by Americans of non-European origin against the European foundations of that culture.” http://cla.calpoly.edu/~bmori/syll/316syll/Schlesinger.html

In short, Liberal/Democrats push non-American ideas and ideals.

We have lost this country to them.

 

[Manonthestreet]

It is a sad statement that our public education has deteriorated to the point that millions of families have resorted to homeschooling.

Teachers having to become disciplinarians instead of educators... How can a teacher teach in an environment where the children do not behave and do not listen? I have a friend who is a teacher in the 2nd grade in a p.s. and she tells me that the parents in her district do not care. They don't even sign and send back the permission slips so that his/her child can go on a field trip. Not to even mention the bureaucracy. Most teachers I know hate their job.

I think there needs to be a complete overhaul and Florida mandating virtual schools is a start. Let there be all types of schooling -- virtual schools, private schools, charter schoolers, homeschooling. Give parents choices. Let's not keep putting money into a failed system.

teachers have promoted what they deal with in their class...I have no sympathy for them.....

 

[PoliticalChic]

It is a sad statement that our public education has deteriorated to the point that millions of families have resorted to homeschooling.

Teachers having to become disciplinarians instead of educators... How can a teacher teach in an environment where the children do not behave and do not listen? I have a friend who is a teacher in the 2nd grade in a p.s. and she tells me that the parents in her district do not care. They don't even sign and send back the permission slips so that his/her child can go on a field trip. Not to even mention the bureaucracy. Most teachers I know hate their job.

I think there needs to be a complete overhaul and Florida mandating virtual schools is a start. Let there be all types of schooling -- virtual schools, private schools, charter schoolers, homeschooling. Give parents choices. Let's not keep putting money into a failed system.

teachers have promoted what they deal with in their class...I have no sympathy for them.....

1. The educrats who have taken control of 'education' are not the teachers, they are Liberals/Leftists who control the teachers with huge pay increases, and parents by putting little Johnny on a pedestal no matter his work nor his behavior.

2. With no other option for teaching....what should they do.

3. To see what controls the profession, take a gander at this:

"The California Federation of Teachers (CFT) passed a resolution at its most recent convention claiming that “the continued unjust incarceration of Mumia Abu-Jamal represents a threat to the civil rights of all people.” Thirty years ago, Abu-Jamal took away Philadelphia policeman Daniel Faulkner’s foremost civil right: his life. How obtuse of the CFT to disregard “the threat to the civil rights of all people” represented by someone capable of gunning down a man tasked with protecting the public.

The pantheon of leftist saints includes the Haymarket Square bombers, responsible for the deaths of eight Chicago cops, Joe Hill, murderer of former police officer John Morrison in Salt Lake City, Huey Newton, murderer of Oakland policeman John Frey, and Leonard Peltier, murderer of FBI agents Jack Coler and Ronald Williams. Notice a pattern?"
Teachers' Mumia Abu-Jamal Resolution Out of Sync Morally and Historically | Human Events


4. If there were voucher and a robust alternative system for teachers and for parents, thing would be different.

5. I have a number of friends who teach in the public schools, and feel as we do.
And I do have sympathy for them.

 

[Unkotare]

It is a sad statement that our public education has deteriorated to the point that millions of families have resorted to homeschooling.

Teachers having to become disciplinarians instead of educators... How can a teacher teach in an environment where the children do not behave and do not listen? I have a friend who is a teacher in the 2nd grade in a p.s. and she tells me that the parents in her district do not care. They don't even sign and send back the permission slips so that his/her child can go on a field trip. Not to even mention the bureaucracy. Most teachers I know hate their job.

I think there needs to be a complete overhaul and Florida mandating virtual schools is a start. Let there be all types of schooling -- virtual schools, private schools, charter schoolers, homeschooling. Give parents choices. Let's not keep putting money into a failed system.

teachers have promoted what they deal with in their class...I have no sympathy for them.....

????