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Yes, I'm in parochial school and yes I get to call how I'll teach within the parameters of state approved curriculum. With that said, the idea of 'select' students is way wrong. At the diocesan level they have a 'mission' of educating 'all God's children', no matter how damaged.
I do mean 'damaged.' In my current 7th grade, I have a student that comprehension wise if at 2nd grade level. Her parents refuse to move her, so she is currently working in a 5th grade text and workbook. She works hard, but excluding literal work, she fails.
I was under the impression that private schools are not required to give the NCLB tests. My kids certainly did not take them until they got to public school. And seventh graders, as far as I know, don't take the test. So you are comparing two different things.
Can't remember where I read it but I do remember reading a critique which argued the the kids in the middle of the curve lose out on teacher attention as the teacher is attending to the really bright ones at one end and the ones that are struggling at the other. But the whole idea of teaching mixed ability classes is a conundrum of itself. Perhaps the English comprehensive school system wasn't so bad after all.
Really? You are a teacher or administrator? I can say clearly, I've never taught to tests. I do not need to. My 6th graders come up on average in the 80%. Then again, they are expected to be in US history. They are in ancient history. However, they've been taught the importance of the legacies, I've hammered home the connections.
7th grade has averaged over the past 10 years, a 94% standardized score. Why? While I've no proof, I'd assume the strong ancient history background coupled with the We the People curriculum in 7th. The know the philosophy that influenced the framers. They know the framers and the federalists and anti-federalists.
Thanks for that. But it seems your mission is a bit different than the public school teachers in my area, at least. In public schools, it's all about numbers because numbers are all about "report cards" which are all about success... (and I mean school report cards, not the kids').
The problem with helping your damaged student who can't keep up is that teachers teach to the bottom third of the class, so that would impede the education of the rest of the class.
I'm also not sure how fair it is to cause a kid to persistently fail. (her parents, not you.)
They are not required to take NCLB tests, however living and teaching in the area I do, the parochial/private schools choose to administer and publish the standardized test scores, if they didn't they wouldn't have sufficient enrollment, as the average SAT score in the surrounding public high schools are 22-25. My school and the other privates that I'm aware of, are all certified by the state-not required, but as I said...
With that a given, we have many that are in serious need of more help than we can provide. The parents for the most part appear to believe if they protect their children from 'labels' they will somehow graduate from high school 'all better.' It seems wrong to me, by both the schools that do not have the trained staff available to address the kids needs and the parents that seem to maintain their denial of serious problems.
Regardless, since you are not part of the public school system you are under no obligation to follow the asinine NCLB rules and teach to the test.
Do you really think I am unaware of teachers in public school? Most of my friends are public school teachers. They do not teach to the test, as they don't need to. The schools and teachers struggling to meet the benchmarks, are under teaching in the first place, which is why their students are failing.
BTW, I agree with you that NCLB has some serious flaws, mostly in the expectations that every kids can hit those marks, that is a basic fallacy.
I'm aware that it's easier to teach students who come from backgrounds where the homes are usually organized and child friendly, whose parents are glad they are around and provide them with enriching experiences. That describes probably 80-85% of children in the schools around here, whether public or private.
Not knowing what state you come from I can only say that the few relatives I have that are public school teachers bitch and moan about the way they are forced to waste time teaching to the test. And my kids, who can ace any test blindfolded, are forced to waste weeks every year on this garbage. Not to mention that they changed the entire school schedule to start in mid-August to accommodate the tests. All because of NCLB.
Well you live in paradise compared to our area... 80-85% of children come from good homes?  I'm not sure of the percentage in my area, it's much lower than this.  I'd go with about 60% in our area, and wouldn't be suprised if it's lower. If your friends in the public school system are teaching along with your states "guidlines" for what the students should know...they are teaching to the test.    No one mentioned anything about the students failing, you're bringing up a pre-conceived assumption that, if teachers teach to the test, their kids are failing.Ravi is right, in alot of schools, teachers are FORCED to teach to the test.  All admin. cares about is numbers in alot of places.  It has nothing to do with whether the teacher is good or bad.  I observed a 3rd grade teacher that I used to have when I was in 3rd grade...the school had adopted a new "scripted" format.  The teachers were no longer able to teach their own way, even though the school is a recognized school already.  They already have a high passing and commended performance percentage, however, admin wants more.  So this teacher has to read from a script when teaching her class...and she cannot deviate from it....this is forced upon her... I'm not saying that you don't know what you're talking about, but you apparently live and work in a very fortunate place. There are no parochial schools here within about 70 miles of where I live....I take it back, there's one, but it's only through the 4th grade I think.Do you really think I am unaware of teachers in public school? Most of my friends are public school teachers. They do not teach to the test, as they don't need to. The schools and teachers struggling to meet the benchmarks, are under teaching in the first place, which is why their students are failing.BTW, I agree with you that NCLB has some serious flaws, mostly in the expectations that every kids can hit those marks, that is a basic fallacy. I'm aware that it's easier to teach students who come from backgrounds where the homes are usually organized and child friendly, whose parents are glad they are around and provide them with enriching experiences. That describes probably 80-85% of children in the schools around here, whether public or private.
Up to here, we are in agreement. I said from the outset it was an upper middle class area.Well you live in paradise compared to our area... 80-85% of children come from good homes? I'm not sure of the percentage in my area, it's much lower than this. I'd go with about 60% in our area, and wouldn't be suprised if it's lower.
This is where you are wrong, perhaps because you are not in education? No harm that. Teaching the curriculum is what teachers are supposed to do. 'Teaching to the test' is focusing on certain facts likely to show up on tests, but have not been addressed or perhaps mastered by the students. It can also focus on 'test thinking' beyond the reminders of 'your first choice is usually correct.'If your friends in the public school system are teaching along with your states "guidlines" for what the students should know...they are teaching to the test.
Public schools in general often require their teachers to stay 'on school curriculum lesson plans.' I agree, I'd hate to stick to: 4/15 Pages 80-83. It's one way to avoid the problems of better teachers and 'awful' teachers. Parents can't argue that one 7th grade teacher 'really moves the kids along' or 'the other teacher goes deeper into the material, thus his students master more.'No one mentioned anything about the students failing, you're bringing up a pre-conceived assumption that, if teachers teach to the test, their kids are failing.Ravi is right, in alot of schools, teachers are FORCED to teach to the test. All admin. cares about is numbers in alot of places. It has nothing to do with whether the teacher is good or bad. I observed a 3rd grade teacher that I used to have when I was in 3rd grade...the school had adopted a new "scripted" format. The teachers were no longer able to teach their own way, even though the school is a recognized school already. They already have a high passing and commended performance percentage, however, admin wants more. So this teacher has to read from a script when teaching her class...and she cannot deviate from it....this is forced upon her... I'm not saying that you don't know what you're talking about, but you apparently live and work in a very fortunate place. There are no parochial schools here within about 70 miles of where I live....I take it back, there's one, but it's only through the 4th grade I think.
STATE GOAL 14: Understand political systems, with an emphasis on the United
States.
Why This Goal Is Important: The existence and advancement of a free society depend on the
knowledge, skills and understanding of its citizenry. Through the study of various forms and
levels of government and the documents and institutions of the United States, students will
develop the skills and knowledge that they need to be contributing citizens, now and in the future.
A. Understand and explain basic principles of the United States government.
EARLY
ELEMENTARY LATE ELEMENTARY MIDDLE/JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL EARLY HIGH SCHOOL LATE HIGH SCHOOL
14.A.1 Describe the
fundamental principles
of government
including
representative govern-
ment, government of
law, individual rights
and the common good.
14.A.2 Explain the
importance of funda-
mental concepts
expressed and implied
in major documents
including the
Declaration of
Independence, the
United States
Constitution and the
Illinois Constitution.
14.A.3 Describe how
responsibilities are
shared and limited by
the United States and
Illinois Constitutions
and significant court
decisions.
14.A.4 Analyze how
local, state and
national governments
serve the purposes for
which they were
created.
4.A.5 Analyze ways
in which federalism
protects individual
rights and promotes
the common good and
how at times has
made it possible for
states to protect and
deny rights for certain
groups.
B. Understand the structures and functions of the political systems of Illinois, the United
States and other nations.
EARLY
ELEMENTARY LATE ELEMENTARY MIDDLE/JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL EARLY HIGH SCHOOL LATE HIGH SCHOOL
14.B.1 Identify the
different levels of
government as local,
state and national.
14.B.2 Explain what
government does at
local, state and
national levels.
14.B.3 Identify and
compare the basic
political systems of
Illinois and the United
States as prescribed in
their constitutions.
14.B.4 Compare the
political systems of the
United States to other
nations.
14.B.5 Analyze
similarities and differ-
ences among world
political systems (e.g.,
democracy, socialism,
communism).
C. Understand election processes and responsibilities of citizens.
EARLY
ELEMENTARY LATE ELEMENTARY MIDDLE/JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL EARLY HIGH SCHOOL LATE HIGH SCHOOL
14.C.1 Identify
concepts of
responsible citizenship
including respect for
the law, patriotism,
civility and working
with others.
14.C.2 Describe and
evaluate why rights
and responsibilities are
important to the
individual, family,
community, workplace,
state and nation (e.g.,
voting, protection
under the law).
14.C.3 Compare
historical issues
involving rights, roles
and status of
individuals in relation
to municipalities,
states and the nation.
14.C.4 Describe the
meaning of par-
ticipatory citizenship
(e.g., volunteerism,
voting) at all levels of
government and
society in the United
States.
14.C.5 Analyze the
consequences of par-
ticipation and non-
participation in the
electoral process (e.g.,
womens suffrage,
voter registration,
effects of media).
Up to here, we are in agreement. I said from the outset it was an upper middle class area.
This is where you are wrong, perhaps because you are not in education? No harm that. Teaching the curriculum is what teachers are supposed to do. 'Teaching to the test' is focusing on certain facts likely to show up on tests, but have not been addressed or perhaps mastered by the students. It can also focus on 'test thinking' beyond the reminders of 'your first choice is usually correct.'
Public schools in general often require their teachers to stay 'on school curriculum lesson plans.' I agree, I'd hate to stick to: 4/15 Pages 80-83. It's one way to avoid the problems of better teachers and 'awful' teachers. Parents can't argue that one 7th grade teacher 'really moves the kids along' or 'the other teacher goes deeper into the material, thus his students master more.'
School curriculum is driven by the state curriculum standards, threads, and benchmarks. Now those are driven by the federal standards. Personally, I think it should be local and state, but that is my opinion. Following any of them though, is not teaching to the 'tests.' It's good practice.
From Illinois:
That's my point that I don't think you are catching....teachers are required to stay with school curriculum (Driven by state and federal standards). A large number of schools have alligned their curriculum with the standardized testing. It's unfortunate, but true. Because schools have alignned their curriculum with the state/federal standards, the teachers are forced to teach to the test. I believe our definitions of "teach to the test" seem to differ, and maybe that is what is leading us to view differently. And for the record, I am in education...and have witnessed this first-hand.
What do you think schools should be teaching? Whatever the teacher decides on any given day to do? Perhaps that sounds great to you, but what about teachers in the lower grades that dislike math or are not comfortable with science? Should they just call their own shots? Extra reading, writing, and social studies today!
Actually, that is what is going on, which is why some teachers/schools are forced to teaching to the tests. Bad practices.
Standards are not teaching to the tests. They are the underpinnings of successful schools. Do I disagree with some? Sure, which is why I've served on the National Social Studies Standards Committee and the same for Illinois. I couldn't get all I wanted, but perhaps next time?
I think we are essentially arguing the same point. The only problem I have was your assumptions that teachers who teach to the test are bad teachers...reason being that many do not have a choice.
You first paragraph was just an emotion based statement that was (in no way) regarding anything I have said. I have not stated that there should not be standards and that teachers should teach anything they want. However, since you spoke about a science teach teaching social studies, it's called cross curruculum, and if a student brought up an issue involving another subject, I say run with it and seize the education opportunity.
My point is not that standards are bad, my point is that the standards are being abused by the school system as well as individual schools. Many schools worry about funding and numbers, therefore, they design their curriculum to teach to the tests (in one way or another). Like I said, some schools do scripted teaching, which means a teacher cannot say what they want, they have to follow the script to the "T" and cannot deviate from it.
Does it make sense to you that a student can pass everything, but then fail the standardized test and fail the grade?? I don't find this fair, especially since 10th graders take a social studies test that is primarily something they've learned two years ago and something they haven't learned yet.
And for the record, I'm glad to see you're a social studies person....
I'm certainly not arguing that the tests are without faults, anything devised by man is sure to be; bring 'educators' in, multiply the fault by the X component. However, standardized tests really are a pretty strong indicator of ability. I'd say that I could predict within 10 pts. my kids CSQ, (indicator of IQ). When I've been 'off' it's been in thinking the kid has lower, not the other way around. That's called underachieving. I push my kids, but don't want to make them feel 'lost.' It sort of fits. Only once was I way off, sure enough it was my judgment of the kid, (he was really good at acting low ability). After I saw his test results, (from 5th grade, I had him in 6th), I began to demand more and he responded, glowingly.
My problem with NCLB, is that it assumes ALL kids are average or above. No child is supposed for fail. Guess what, average means just that, some are below average and cannot hit that goal. It's not the fault of the school, parents, teachers, or student.
Exactly.....
I really am unfamiliar with schools demanding teaching to tests. If you are saying teaching to standards, well that is different. Teaching to tests implies that the teacher is drilling kids on the 'facts' that would be included within subject areas, which is pointless, other than for scores. It would also mean they are not teaching the students what they need to know, meaning standards.
This is what I mean, except it's not the teacher that has the choice, it's the curriculum director and the admins. choice. IN these situations it has nothing to do with whether or not the teacher is bad or good. This may not happen everywhere, but it does happen and more so than one might think.
Again, where you get the data that it's widespread, I don't know. I've been in the public schools, I've been in private, that conforms to state mandates, including standardized testing. Never have I've been told to teach to test. In public schools it was 'imperative' to stay with local lesson parameters, meaning page #'s and objectives.
I have much more freedom in parochial school, to differentiate lessons for my kids and to make my lesson plans my own. It might well be different if there were two or more social studies teachers, but there isn't. Wednesday we are doing a trench warfare simulation for 8th grade. We'll be closing out the week watching National Treasure II. 7th grade will be watching "Glory", we just finished Civil War. 6th Grade, it's "Monty Python's Holy Grail", just finished Medieval Times.
Well I guess my assumption that it's widespread may be just as implicative as your assumptions that it's not. I've heard a great deal more of complaining than I have positive things about standardized testing and teachers being forced to teach to the test....that's what I'm basing my assumptions on.
