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Discussion in 'Healthcare/Insurance/Govt Healthcare' started by Skull Pilot, Nov 28, 2009.

  1. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    Seems that we have all kinds of gimmicks a la Global Warming data manipulation going on.

    A picture can be worth 2,000 pages | Washington Examiner

    [​IMG]

     
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  2. ba1614
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    ba1614 Silver Member

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    They don't give the American people much credit. Using years of paying into something, without withdrawing anything, towards any kind of cost prediction is dishonest at best, fucking criminal at worst.

    Is the population of America really that fuckin' stupid, or naive, to be buying this type of bullshit from these guys? The fact that they are resorting to this type of tactic to weasel this through is very telling of what the true cost is going to be.
     
  3. auditor0007
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    auditor0007 Gold Member

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    It's always fun to play with numbers. Both sides do it. The fact is that by 2023, healthcare spending is projected to consume close to 25% of GDP. GDP in 2023 will likely be $19 to $20 trillion, based on a 3% rate of growth between now and then. This will make overall healthcare spending in 2023 approximately $5 trillion or double what we are now spending. So, in 2023 the governement will spend a little over $250 billion towards healthcare out of a total of $5 trillion.

    Now, this does not include spending on Medicare or Medicaid, which will involve much greater spending. The $250 billion will be a spit in the bucket compared to overall spending on healthcare. The bottom line is the way things look now, it doesn't matter whether or not it's going through the government or not, we're going to be spending way too much on healthcare in the future, and it is going to make us less competitive globally.
     
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  4. uscitizen
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    uscitizen Senior Member

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    Didn't Bush have a guy fired for saying the pill bill would cost more than Bush said it would?
    And it turned out the fired guy was correct. Not right, but correct.
     
  5. chanel
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    chanel Silver Member

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    Hot Air » Blog Archive » CBO: ObamaCare will drive insurance premiums higher

    57% of 17% would qualify for 66% subsidies. The rest of us will pay higher premiums. Gotta love that liberal math.

    Unbelievable.
     
  6. Skull Pilot
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    Skull Pilot Platinum Member

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    What is this fixation on health acre spending as a percentage of GDP?

    So what if health care spending is 25% of GDP?

    That means medicine is a growth industry and more research dollars will be spent on advanced technology and treatments which means more jobs for engineers, technicians, doctors and nurses etc.

    Would you be so concerned if the auto or steel or computer industry spending was 25% of GDP?

    And if health care spending of 16% of GDP as it is now is bad, what is your take on government spending being 45% of GDP and rising as it is now?

    Seems to me that government spending is making us globally less competitive.
     
  7. auditor0007
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    auditor0007 Gold Member

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    Total government spending has increased due to all of the bailouts and the failed stimulus package. Federal spending has jumped from around 20% of GDP to nearly 30%. So yes, government spending is making us less competive.

    As for healthcare spending, it really doesn't matter if it is the goverenment or private sector spending the money. It is going to be spent on healthcare one way or the other, and the rising costs are preventing us from spending that money in other areas.

    The biggest problem with healthcare spending is that we are not getting more for our money with these dramatic increases. You can argue that people are living longer, but that is not making them more productive. They are just sitting around as non-productive citizens. The longer life expectancy is just draining all those who work to support those couple of extra years.

    This may sound harsh, but the fact is that if we are living longer, we shouldn't be retiring at the same age as we did when we only expected to live 70 years. If people worked an extra five years, they would be adding to the growth of our economy, and the increases in healthcare spending wouldn't be as significant.

    But the bottom line is that we are spending nearly double what most other countries are spending on healthcare. And what is our overall benefit? It certainly is not a longer life expectancy. Countries that spend half of what we do on healthcare, get the same end benefits as we do, yet they can spend all the extra money in other areas, and this is why we are falling behind, or at minimum, losing our advantage as the global leader. In the end, it will cost us, or should I say, our children and grandchildren, with a lower standard of living than we have enjoyed, and that is a real shame.
     
  8. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    Dear Diary,

    I’ve learned so much from the Global Warming Scientists, such as the Scientific Method:

    1. State the Problem
    2. Collect Data
    3. Form a Hypothesis
    4. Experimentation
    5. Conclusion
    6. Edit the Data to Conform to Conclusion
    7. Lose any Data that doesn’t Fit the Conclusion
    8. Prevent Alternative Data From Being Published
    9. Have a Rubber Stamp Made: “Peer Reviewed”
    10. Slander Opponents.

    It’s so good to be with the right thinkers!
     
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  9. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    Life expectancy in the United States is the greatest on the globe.

    You must get beyond the spin, and inquire as to how the numbers are determined.

    Remove deaths from auto accidents, and homicides and we are number one!

    So, how are auto accidents, and homicides a failure of healthcare?

    “One often-heard argument, voiced by the New York Times' Paul Krugman and others, is that America lags behind other countries in crude health outcomes. But such outcomes reflect a mosaic of factors, such as diet, lifestyle, drug use and cultural values. It pains me as a doctor to say this, but health care is just one factor in health.

    In The Business of Health, Robert Ohsfeldt and John Schneider factor out intentional and unintentional injuries from life-expectancy statistics and find that Americans who don't die in car crashes or homicides outlive people in any other Western country.

    And if we measure a health care system by how well it serves its sick citizens, American medicine excels.
    Dave Petno » Canadian Doctor Describes Canadian Socialized Medicine
     
  10. auditor0007
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    auditor0007 Gold Member

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    Honestly, I don't care about one year either way. People die in car accidents in other countries also. If removing that extends our life expectancy to get us to the same point or even a bit ahead of the rest of the industrialized countries, you're still talking one year one way or the other. But we still pay twice as much than they do in any of those countries. For that price, we ought to be living five or ten years longer than everyone else. But we don't. So in the end, we are not getting a good return on our investment and that is the bottom line. Instead, we are hurting economic development in other areas, and this is going to cost us dearly in the long run.
     

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