CDZ Hey left, how do you feel about limiting presidential power?

[sakinago]

There was a concept being thrown around during Obamas term, mostly on the right, and it was the idea of a state constitutional convention. Which was designed to reign in the power of anything federal (say the executive branch, and a party controlled legislative branch).

Do you really want trump and a republican congress to have as much power as they do now over your life?

I'll leave it at that for now

What an awesome thread. I always love it when a person of superior intellect weighs in with a concept such as this. I mean...this outstanding person didn't vote for either Clinton nor Trump. He's clearly smarter than everyone else.

Trump and a republican congress only have as much power as we choose to give them. While we can experience some short term discomfort if members in congress don't hold up their end of the bargain, we've got a built-in remedy. There is nothing like an incompetent demagogue to liven things up for a spell.

Of course, were I a member of the military, I might be somewhat more concerned. It's clear that our PEOTUS is the type of person who has personal insecurities. He's going to make use of the might of our military at some point in an offensive manner.

Now....don't fall off of that perch of yours, oh great one. We wouldn't want you to have to make any decisions.

I have a feeling this is a sarcastic post...I honestly can't tell. I don't think of myself as intellectually superior at all, so don't put that on me in any serious or sarcastic sense. I strive for fairness, and probably fall short often, at least I make an effort to snuff it out. What I think is a fairer form of government is a central government that doesn't have as much power over our every day lives as this one has. Of which a convention of states seems like a really good idea at this time

 

[sakinago]

There was a concept being thrown around during Obamas term, mostly on the right, and it was the idea of a state constitutional convention. Which was designed to reign in the power of anything federal (say the executive branch, and a party controlled legislative branch).
Do you really want trump and a republican congress to have as much power as they do now over your life?
I'll leave it at that for now

They had as much power back in 04-06 seemed to have gotten by okay. They set off the great recession and got us involved in Iraq. I doubt Donald will do as sucky a job as Bush.

Yea but we have Syria, Libya, and still Iraq and Afghanistan to deal with. And the derivative debt that drove us into the recession is only being doubled (if you don't believe me watch the big short [the left loves so much], very end of the movie). {this is not my end source, just a illustration source}. A lot more to do with the fed reserve, and realistic markets, than presidency.

Again do you want trump and republican congress to have as much power as they do
Over you?

Doesn't bother me that much. The federal government has very little impact in our daily lives. The only reason it is discussed here is because of the scale of the message board and the well known figures. If this were the Arizona Republic chat room, we'd be discussing Arpaio and McCain.

It still has a huge impact, you probably just don't realize it because it has become engrained in our lives without notice. I mean income tax is rarely discussed as well as social security. Those are two huge issues. Not to mention departments like the EPA, education, FDA...as I'm writing this post I'm realizing you lack a great deal of awareness to make the comment you just made. What I listed doesn't even touch a quarter of what I can name off the top of my head. And that's all without mentioning anything that came under Obamas reign which is a whole other list. So just take a second and think about how much the ACA has effected your life and those around you and take note that that is one single bill.

 

[Moonglow]

Trump is not, and will not be a legitimate president, so I oppose him having any power.

He's legitimate in the sense of if Hillary won the same way, she'd be a legitimate president. That being said trump won states like Pennsylvania which have not gone red in a very long time...

He had a better electoral college turnout than bush did.

So what should be the lefts response...hint I'm trying to help you guys

You cannot help the terminally stupid ... you can only pity them.

How many pity parties have you had? The right to question your leaders and to speak out if one thinks they are not governing wrong is the right thing to do...

 

[candycorn]

There was a concept being thrown around during Obamas term, mostly on the right, and it was the idea of a state constitutional convention. Which was designed to reign in the power of anything federal (say the executive branch, and a party controlled legislative branch).
Do you really want trump and a republican congress to have as much power as they do now over your life?
I'll leave it at that for now

They had as much power back in 04-06 seemed to have gotten by okay. They set off the great recession and got us involved in Iraq. I doubt Donald will do as sucky a job as Bush.

Yea but we have Syria, Libya, and still Iraq and Afghanistan to deal with. And the derivative debt that drove us into the recession is only being doubled (if you don't believe me watch the big short [the left loves so much], very end of the movie). {this is not my end source, just a illustration source}. A lot more to do with the fed reserve, and realistic markets, than presidency.

Again do you want trump and republican congress to have as much power as they do
Over you?

Doesn't bother me that much. The federal government has very little impact in our daily lives. The only reason it is discussed here is because of the scale of the message board and the well known figures. If this were the Arizona Republic chat room, we'd be discussing Arpaio and McCain.

It still has a huge impact, you probably just don't realize it because it has become engrained in our lives without notice. I mean income tax is rarely discussed as well as social security. Those are two huge issues. Not to mention departments like the EPA, education, FDA...as I'm writing this post I'm realizing you lack a great deal of awareness to make the comment you just made. What I listed doesn't even touch a quarter of what I can name off the top of my head. And that's all without mentioning anything that came under Obamas reign which is a whole other list. So just take a second and think about how much the ACA has effected your life and those around you and take note that that is one single bill.

The ACA didn't affect me. My premiums through my employer went up about 7 bucks a year (as they always did before). My old assistant had her special needs kid on her company insurance. It saved her several thousand dollars per year; probably up into the high 5 figures by now (if not six figures).

So you're not for the income tax or SS? Okay.

 

[usmbguest5318]

There was a concept being thrown around during Obamas term, mostly on the right, and it was the idea of a state constitutional convention. Which was designed to reign in the power of anything federal (say the executive branch, and a party controlled legislative branch).

Do you really want trump and a republican congress to have as much power as they do now over your life?

I'll leave it at that for now

Yes, because just as Trump can undo what preceded him, his shit can be undone too once he's gone.

 

[LoneLaugher]

There was a concept being thrown around during Obamas term, mostly on the right, and it was the idea of a state constitutional convention. Which was designed to reign in the power of anything federal (say the executive branch, and a party controlled legislative branch).
Do you really want trump and a republican congress to have as much power as they do now over your life?
I'll leave it at that for now

They had as much power back in 04-06 seemed to have gotten by okay. They set off the great recession and got us involved in Iraq. I doubt Donald will do as sucky a job as Bush.

Yea but we have Syria, Libya, and still Iraq and Afghanistan to deal with. And the derivative debt that drove us into the recession is only being doubled (if you don't believe me watch the big short [the left loves so much], very end of the movie). {this is not my end source, just a illustration source}. A lot more to do with the fed reserve, and realistic markets, than presidency.

Again do you want trump and republican congress to have as much power as they do
Over you?

Doesn't bother me that much. The federal government has very little impact in our daily lives. The only reason it is discussed here is because of the scale of the message board and the well known figures. If this were the Arizona Republic chat room, we'd be discussing Arpaio and McCain.

It still has a huge impact, you probably just don't realize it because it has become engrained in our lives without notice. I mean income tax is rarely discussed as well as social security. Those are two huge issues. Not to mention departments like the EPA, education, FDA...as I'm writing this post I'm realizing you lack a great deal of awareness to make the comment you just made. What I listed doesn't even touch a quarter of what I can name off the top of my head. And that's all without mentioning anything that came under Obamas reign which is a whole other list. So just take a second and think about how much the ACA has effected your life and those around you and take note that that is one single bill.

Gee whiz! I can hardly breathe!

 

[FA_Q2]

There was a concept being thrown around during Obamas term, mostly on the right, and it was the idea of a state constitutional convention. Which was designed to reign in the power of anything federal (say the executive branch, and a party controlled legislative branch).

Do you really want trump and a republican congress to have as much power as they do now over your life?

I'll leave it at that for now

Like a lot of Americans, I feel uneasy about tinkering with the rule book just because we don't like the opposition quarterback. Trump lied his way into the White House because the TV news bunnies were asleep at the switch. Reform of the Electoral College is long overdue. Letting the GOP gerrymander Congress and federal agencies will only make the dangers of the Trump administration much worse. Rigorous investigation and full reporting will get the guy impeached before the 2020 congressional elections.

Most of those that are advocating for limiting the exec branch are not doing so because we do not like the president. We have needed (and have been pushing this concept) FAR longer than Obama and Bush's term. Congress has, over the course of many years, moved ever increasing powers from the legislative branch to the bureaucracy of the executive branch with little to zero oversight. Over the last 16 years this process has been accelerating and the results are rather unsettling.

 

[FA_Q2]

Trump is not, and will not be a legitimate president, so I oppose him having any power.

Trump is, no matter how much whining you insist on, not only the legitimate president but will be officially the president tomorrow after the inauguration.

This illegitimate slant based entirely on conjecture absent and fact that the partisans here have been whaling about is getting tiring. Deal with the FACT that Trump will be president. End of story.

 

[FA_Q2]

There was a concept being thrown around during Obamas term, mostly on the right, and it was the idea of a state constitutional convention. Which was designed to reign in the power of anything federal (say the executive branch, and a party controlled legislative branch).

Do you really want trump and a republican congress to have as much power as they do now over your life?

I'll leave it at that for now

The power of the executive branch has been expanding since George Washington left office, especially in the last few decades.

I was for reigning in presidential power before Trump and I am certainly in favor of it now. And he is exactly why I am: because when "your guy" is in office those executive powers seem very tempting but when "their guy" gets in...

More importantly, the health of our system of government depends on the checks and balances built into it.

I support a constitutional convention to address executive power creep and 4th Amendment issues recently brought to light by Snowden and others, among other issues.

I am not so sure that I support a convention. I fear that one would make things FAR WORSE than they currently are. We are in a time when an openly socialist runs for president, openly advocates for massive expansions in federal power to the detriment of the checks and balances that we have left and he garners pretty large support. A convention could well end us in far worse shape.

 

[flacaltenn]

Mod Note:

How'd this happen? It's a CDZ thread, yet I have 10 posts marked for deletion. All either personal, off topic or no content. I'm sending alerts with these deletions. If you GET one -- realize that you will toss and/or warned on the next infraction in this thread. Respect the TOPIC -- lay off each other.

 

[BULLDOG]

Trump is not, and will not be a legitimate president, so I oppose him having any power.

Trump is, no matter how much whining you insist on, not only the legitimate president but will be officially the president tomorrow after the inauguration.

This illegitimate slant based entirely on conjecture absent and fact that the partisans here have been whaling about is getting tiring. Deal with the FACT that Trump will be president. End of story.

Yes, he will officially be the president. That doesn't make him legitimate.

 

[Spare_change]

Trump is not, and will not be a legitimate president, so I oppose him having any power.

Trump is, no matter how much whining you insist on, not only the legitimate president but will be officially the president tomorrow after the inauguration.

This illegitimate slant based entirely on conjecture absent and fact that the partisans here have been whaling about is getting tiring. Deal with the FACT that Trump will be president. End of story.

Yes, he will officially be the president. That doesn't make him legitimate.

Oh, I'm afraid that's exactly what it makes him.

 

[BULLDOG]

Trump is not, and will not be a legitimate president, so I oppose him having any power.

Trump is, no matter how much whining you insist on, not only the legitimate president but will be officially the president tomorrow after the inauguration.

This illegitimate slant based entirely on conjecture absent and fact that the partisans here have been whaling about is getting tiring. Deal with the FACT that Trump will be president. End of story.

Yes, he will officially be the president. That doesn't make him legitimate.

Oh, I'm afraid that's exactly what it makes him.

You wish.

 

[HenryBHough]

I could see the left warmly embracing something that would severely limit Executive Branch power. So long as it was quickly and easily reversible when they (perhaps) some day are again in the majority. But anything that was cast in stone raises a question of whether they could think far enough ahead to not go for it.

 

[Spare_change]

Trump is not, and will not be a legitimate president, so I oppose him having any power.

Trump is, no matter how much whining you insist on, not only the legitimate president but will be officially the president tomorrow after the inauguration.

This illegitimate slant based entirely on conjecture absent and fact that the partisans here have been whaling about is getting tiring. Deal with the FACT that Trump will be president. End of story.

Yes, he will officially be the president. That doesn't make him legitimate.

Oh, I'm afraid that's exactly what it makes him.

You wish.

Frankly, the whole "illegitimate presidency" thing is an exercise in ignorance. He will be president tomorrow. He will be commander in chief tomorrow. He will make decisions tomorrow. He will sign executive orders tomorrow.

You may not like him. You may disagree with his policies. None of that changes a damn thing - he will be president of the US tomorrow.

I strongly suggest that, if you're interested in being taken seriously, if you want to be part of the national conversation, you lose the childish little temper tantrum. If you want to be heard, you need to put away your coloring book and your play-doh, step up to the adult table and engage in meaningful conversation.

The whining hides your message. Come sit with the big boys or just shut up.

 

[BULLDOG]

Trump is not, and will not be a legitimate president, so I oppose him having any power.

Trump is, no matter how much whining you insist on, not only the legitimate president but will be officially the president tomorrow after the inauguration.

This illegitimate slant based entirely on conjecture absent and fact that the partisans here have been whaling about is getting tiring. Deal with the FACT that Trump will be president. End of story.

Yes, he will officially be the president. That doesn't make him legitimate.

Oh, I'm afraid that's exactly what it makes him.

You wish.

Frankly, the whole "illegitimate presidency" thing is an exercise in ignorance. He will be president tomorrow. He will be commander in chief tomorrow. He will make decisions tomorrow. He will sign executive orders tomorrow.

You may not like him. You may disagree with his policies. None of that changes a damn thing - he will be president of the US tomorrow.

I strongly suggest that, if you're interested in being taken seriously, if you want to be part of the national conversation, you lose the childish little temper tantrum. If you want to be heard, you need to put away your coloring book and your play-doh, step up to the adult table and engage in meaningful conversation.

The whining hides your message. Come sit with the big boys or just shut up.

Yes, he will be president. That doesn't make that traitor legitimate. He's an idiot who has already made it perfectly clear that he doesn't know or care what it tales to run this country. As things turn to shit under him, remember that he is what you wanted.

 

[Spare_change]

Trump is, no matter how much whining you insist on, not only the legitimate president but will be officially the president tomorrow after the inauguration.

This illegitimate slant based entirely on conjecture absent and fact that the partisans here have been whaling about is getting tiring. Deal with the FACT that Trump will be president. End of story.

Yes, he will officially be the president. That doesn't make him legitimate.

Oh, I'm afraid that's exactly what it makes him.

You wish.

Frankly, the whole "illegitimate presidency" thing is an exercise in ignorance. He will be president tomorrow. He will be commander in chief tomorrow. He will make decisions tomorrow. He will sign executive orders tomorrow.

You may not like him. You may disagree with his policies. None of that changes a damn thing - he will be president of the US tomorrow.

I strongly suggest that, if you're interested in being taken seriously, if you want to be part of the national conversation, you lose the childish little temper tantrum. If you want to be heard, you need to put away your coloring book and your play-doh, step up to the adult table and engage in meaningful conversation.

The whining hides your message. Come sit with the big boys or just shut up.

Yes, he will be president. That doesn't make that traitor legitimate. He's an idiot who has already made it perfectly clear that he doesn't know or care what it tales to run this country. As things turn to shit under him, remember that he is what you wanted.

... and when he creates a million jobs, lowers your taxes, fixes that abortion called the ACA, and leads the country forward, remember just how wrong you were, and the hissy fits you keep having.

 

[BULLDOG]

Yes, he will officially be the president. That doesn't make him legitimate.

Oh, I'm afraid that's exactly what it makes him.

You wish.

Frankly, the whole "illegitimate presidency" thing is an exercise in ignorance. He will be president tomorrow. He will be commander in chief tomorrow. He will make decisions tomorrow. He will sign executive orders tomorrow.

You may not like him. You may disagree with his policies. None of that changes a damn thing - he will be president of the US tomorrow.

I strongly suggest that, if you're interested in being taken seriously, if you want to be part of the national conversation, you lose the childish little temper tantrum. If you want to be heard, you need to put away your coloring book and your play-doh, step up to the adult table and engage in meaningful conversation.

The whining hides your message. Come sit with the big boys or just shut up.

Yes, he will be president. That doesn't make that traitor legitimate. He's an idiot who has already made it perfectly clear that he doesn't know or care what it tales to run this country. As things turn to shit under him, remember that he is what you wanted.

... and when he creates a million jobs, lowers your taxes, fixes that abortion called the ACA, and leads the country forward, remember just how wrong you were, and the hissy fits you keep having.

Get back with me when he actually does some of that.

 

[Spare_change]

Oh, I'm afraid that's exactly what it makes him.

You wish.

Frankly, the whole "illegitimate presidency" thing is an exercise in ignorance. He will be president tomorrow. He will be commander in chief tomorrow. He will make decisions tomorrow. He will sign executive orders tomorrow.

You may not like him. You may disagree with his policies. None of that changes a damn thing - he will be president of the US tomorrow.

I strongly suggest that, if you're interested in being taken seriously, if you want to be part of the national conversation, you lose the childish little temper tantrum. If you want to be heard, you need to put away your coloring book and your play-doh, step up to the adult table and engage in meaningful conversation.

The whining hides your message. Come sit with the big boys or just shut up.

Yes, he will be president. That doesn't make that traitor legitimate. He's an idiot who has already made it perfectly clear that he doesn't know or care what it tales to run this country. As things turn to shit under him, remember that he is what you wanted.

... and when he creates a million jobs, lowers your taxes, fixes that abortion called the ACA, and leads the country forward, remember just how wrong you were, and the hissy fits you keep having.

Get back with me when he actually does some of that.

Get back with me when he doesn't.

 

[sakinago]

There was a concept being thrown around during Obamas term, mostly on the right, and it was the idea of a state constitutional convention. Which was designed to reign in the power of anything federal (say the executive branch, and a party controlled legislative branch).
Do you really want trump and a republican congress to have as much power as they do now over your life?
I'll leave it at that for now

They had as much power back in 04-06 seemed to have gotten by okay. They set off the great recession and got us involved in Iraq. I doubt Donald will do as sucky a job as Bush.

Yea but we have Syria, Libya, and still Iraq and Afghanistan to deal with. And the derivative debt that drove us into the recession is only being doubled (if you don't believe me watch the big short [the left loves so much], very end of the movie). {this is not my end source, just a illustration source}. A lot more to do with the fed reserve, and realistic markets, than presidency.

Again do you want trump and republican congress to have as much power as they do
Over you?

Doesn't bother me that much. The federal government has very little impact in our daily lives. The only reason it is discussed here is because of the scale of the message board and the well known figures. If this were the Arizona Republic chat room, we'd be discussing Arpaio and McCain.

It still has a huge impact, you probably just don't realize it because it has become engrained in our lives without notice. I mean income tax is rarely discussed as well as social security. Those are two huge issues. Not to mention departments like the EPA, education, FDA...as I'm writing this post I'm realizing you lack a great deal of awareness to make the comment you just made. What I listed doesn't even touch a quarter of what I can name off the top of my head. And that's all without mentioning anything that came under Obamas reign which is a whole other list. So just take a second and think about how much the ACA has effected your life and those around you and take note that that is one single bill.

The ACA didn't affect me. My premiums through my employer went up about 7 bucks a year (as they always did before). My old assistant had her special needs kid on her company insurance. It saved her several thousand dollars per year; probably up into the high 5 figures by now (if not six figures).

So you're not for the income tax or SS? Okay.

If what you're saying is true, you're one of the lucky ones. You also did not mention changes in your deductible, which I'm guessing probably went up a lot. But don't mistake your personal bubble as, ACA didnt really change anything for anyone. Millions of Americans are not so lucky, including me an the 2000 co workers around me. We along with 5 million other Americans got their healthcare plans cancelled. Ours got replaced with one, at the time, was only a 10$ PM increase in premium, but with a deductible of 5,000. In other words, if I actually need treatment for something, I'm paying up to 5 grand a pop out of pocket. That's a huge loss in coverage to the comparable premium we used to pay. And that's not just us seeing that problem, that's all over the US, which deductibles have risen 7 fold faster than inflation. Now since our plans got changed thanks to ACA we already saw a 15% increase in our premiums a couple years ago, and are now looking at another 30% increase. This type of premium increases are also being seen all over the US, and our actual coverage isn't increasing, it's decreasing. Not too mention ACA FORCES all Americans to buy coverage, or face hefty fine. That's quite a precedent set up by the federal government, and a huge effect on the people you fail to see from the fed. Not only was I pushed into a plan I didn't want, with the plan I currently have I cannot get sick or hurt, and I cannot drop the plan either. All this goes without mentioning the tax burden that has been created by completely un-funded subsidies that are all over ACA, we're looking at 1.8 trillion dollars over the next decade...and that's trillion, with a T. So not only are Americans having too foot a higher medical bill with less coverage, they're also going to be footing a higher bill in taxes. Not to forget that people who find abortion morally reprehensible are now having to pay for it. Single men, the elderly, the infertile, are paying for pregnancy coverage. And all of this is from ONE bill out of the federal government.

And no it's not just the income tax, and social security. There's probably around 100 things I have a problem with, and all require as much writing as I did for the ACA (which was a shortened version). If you're not seeing how the fed govt. effects you, then your really not trying to look. That's your prerogative, keep your head in the sand, just don't try to say the fed have a very small effect on us, and have ZERO to back up your actual claim.

But since we're talking about it, SS is nothing more than a Ponzi scheme. It works as long as you have enough investors (in the case tax payers) to pay for the previous round of investors (tax payers). Our elderly are living much longer, and much less Americans are actually working and paying into SS. So young people like me aren't going to see any of that money in 40 years. Why are we not solving this problem? Dumping money into is NOT he answer, yet that's exactly what the fed wants us to keep doing, while they all worry about reelection.

I also have a huge problem with the NSA data mining, CIAs lack of legit oversight, IRS existence and capability to target ideaologies, the federal reserves control of our monetary system, their existence, and their ability to hold the entire American population hostage to anyone that wants to reign them in. I have a problem with presidential power through executive orders, and to ignore or enforce whatever laws they want to. I have a huge problem with the fed govt propping up business they want or like creating monopolie. I have a problem with the fed govt deciding to regulate whatever they want in ways they shouldn't have power over. I have a problem with the fed auctioning off sovereignty to foreign treaties. I have a problem with with the fed govt, being solely in charge of education by bullying states out of money if they don't comply. I have a problem with the govt deciding things like marriage, defining things they deem bad like drugs. I have a problem with the government throwing business in prison for fraud that they are committing ten fold. I have a problem with the fed deciding how much of the money we earn we get to keep, and where they want to spend it.

You're not really living in a free nation anymore when the average American commits 3 felonies and 7 misdemeanors a day without even knowing it. All I mentioned is just a fraction of what the fed has power over, and each has huge implications either directly or in a trickle down effect in your life, whether you realize it or not. Its humans ability to adapt and equalize to the situation around us that makes many of us clueless to the everyday hoops we have to jump through, and the cost of what the fed govt brings about on us.