Here’s why people flipping burgers and dunking fries SHOULD receive $15 per hour

[Billy000]

It’s not overpaying based on the simple logic of the cost of living standards. If you weren’t a dumb rightwinger, you’d understand that.

I don't a rat's ass about COL. Not my problem. I'll pay what the work is worth to me. If it's not agreeable, move along. I'll find someone else.

Yeah but no one cares what you think anyway. The grown ups are going to find ways to alleviate poverty.

Poverty will never be alleviated, because human nature is unchangeable.

Some are driven to succeed, some are not.

No one ever claimed it can be eliminated. The keyword obviously is “alleviated”.

I believe that's the word I wrote.

(Billy looks)

Yup.

Yeah and the point is they have different definitions. Duh.

 

[Harry Dresden]

so their low wage job is tougher than other low wage jobs?.....

This job was singled out in another thread. I’m just defending it. My overall point, is that people need at least $15 per hour to survive. Raising the minimum wage is a separate issue, however. I don’t believe it should just become the new standard over night. Gradually raising the min wage over time should have begun decades ago.

you do realize that those in the brackets above will also want a raise and so on up the scale....

No economic solution is perfect. There will always be unhappy people. Plenty more people are already miserable with the status quo.

doesnt take away what i said.....if the minimum wage people say get that 15 an hour,the 15 an hour people and everyone above them will want a raise.....

 

[Billy000]

When the RIghtwing thinks of $15 per hour, they see it as a symbol of hard work and skilled labor. The problem with this is that in today’s economy, $15 per hour is a meager wage that in places like Cali or NY still amounts to poverty. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of cost of living. As a point of reference, the last time someone could get by on $10.00 per hour was in the 1960s. In fact, if the minimum wage had kept up with the rate of inflation, it should be $20.00 per hour. Now you can make the argument that the government shouldn’t raise the min wage, but that wouldn’t change the fact that $20 per hour is what single people need to live on nationwide. (And no, I am not suggesting we just magically make the min wage $20 per hour).

Now, of course, cons will say “well those people should just learn new skills and get a better job!” The problem with this, however, is that the average age of a fast food worker is 35. This isn’t entirely by choice - it’s just the most readily available job one can get. Higher wage jobs in this country are extremely competitive. Low wage jobs greatly outnumber higher wage jobs. This means millions of workers have NO CHOICE but to accept shit paying jobs. More importantly, if these people are making shit wages, how the hell could they find the time and money to learn new skills to get better paying jobs? That is part of the cycle of poverty.

One final point: I’ve never worked fast food, but like many, I’ve been a customer to these businesses. We all know these people just don’t stand around “flipping burgers and dunking fries”. That is a big oversimplification of the job. They all have to take turns running the drive thru, the front registers, and prepare food. It’s non-stop labor from the start of their shift to the end. On top of that, they have to deal with the biggest kind of asshole customers on the planet.

Grampa Murked U

When the RIghtwing thinks of $15 per hour, they see it as a symbol of hard work and skilled labor.

Do they? I don't know, but one'd have to be a cave dwelling hermit who simply hasn't a well informed understanding of the "real world," as it were, to seriously entertain such a notion.

The problem with this is that in today’s economy, $15 per hour is a meager wage that in places like Cali or NY still amounts to poverty.....Now you can make the argument that the government shouldn’t raise the min wage, but that wouldn’t change the fact that $20 per hour is what single people need to live on nationwide.

Nationwide minimum wage

The notion that one wage be the minimum hourly wage that is adequate for every locality in the U.S. is the problem with the minimum wage debate at the national level. The same is so with regard to tax rates/brackets. Quite simply, ~$31K/year of gross income buys completely different bundles of goods and services in different places.

• Top U.S. cities for buying power

The concept I described above is called "purchasing power," and if things like federal income tax rates and nationally stipulated minimum wages are to be fair -- both to wage earner and wage payers -- they need to be indexed to something so that they take into account the purchasing power applicable to a given geographical area of a reasonable size (counties, cities and surrounding area up to X miles distant, or some other metric).

Some might think doing that is overly cumbersome, but in this day of computerized "everything," it isn't at all. Indeed, it's something doable in an instant using a spreadsheet, which, frankly, is a rather archaic way to implement the idea, but I've stated it that way to illustrate the simplicity of doing it.

• Purchasing power: using wage statistics with regional price parities to create a standard for comparing wages across U.S. areas

Well what I meant by nation
wide is that the wage of $20 is required for places like San Francisco or Denver. It being that high would have the cost of living accounted for nationwide.

 

[Billy000]

so their low wage job is tougher than other low wage jobs?.....

This job was singled out in another thread. I’m just defending it. My overall point, is that people need at least $15 per hour to survive. Raising the minimum wage is a separate issue, however. I don’t believe it should just become the new standard over night. Gradually raising the min wage over time should have begun decades ago.

you do realize that those in the brackets above will also want a raise and so on up the scale....

No economic solution is perfect. There will always be unhappy people. Plenty more people are already miserable with the status quo.

doesnt take away what i said.....if the minimum wage people say get that 15 an hour,the 15 an hour people and everyone above them will want a raise.....

Yeah and I don’t care about their feelings. What matters is a fair wage for anyone who works.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

so their low wage job is tougher than other low wage jobs?.....

This job was singled out in another thread. I’m just defending it. My overall point, is that people need at least $15 per hour to survive. Raising the minimum wage is a separate issue, however. I don’t believe it should just become the new standard over night. Gradually raising the min wage over time should have begun decades ago.

you do realize that those in the brackets above will also want a raise and so on up the scale....

No economic solution is perfect. There will always be unhappy people. Plenty more people are already miserable with the status quo.

doesnt take away what i said.....if the minimum wage people say get that 15 an hour,the 15 an hour people and everyone above them will want a raise.....

Yeah and I don’t care about their feelings. What matters is a fair wage for anyone who works.

Okay, then don't care. Let the MW go up to 15, then the people who were making 15 would want 23, the people who were making 23 would want 30, the people who were making 30 would want......

When all is said and done (much like the end of the union days) our cost of living would be so high we would all be right back to where we started from before the MW increase because everything would cost so much more. The only thing we'd accomplish is the elimination of millions of jobs because of automation or outsourcing.

 

[GHook93]

When the RIghtwing thinks of $15 per hour, they see it as a symbol of hard work and skilled labor. The problem with this is that in today’s economy, $15 per hour is a meager wage that in places like Cali or NY still amounts to poverty. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of cost of living. As a point of reference, the last time someone could get by on $10.00 per hour was in the 1960s. In fact, if the minimum wage had kept up with the rate of inflation, it should be $20.00 per hour. Now you can make the argument that the government shouldn’t raise the min wage, but that wouldn’t change the fact that $20 per hour is what single people need to live on nationwide. (And no, I am not suggesting we just magically make the min wage $20 per hour).

Now, of course, cons will say “well those people should just learn new skills and get a better job!” The problem with this, however, is that the average age of a fast food worker is 35. This isn’t entirely by choice - it’s just the most readily available job one can get. Higher wage jobs in this country are extremely competitive. Low wage jobs greatly outnumber higher wage jobs. This means millions of workers have NO CHOICE but to accept shit paying jobs. More importantly, if these people are making shit wages, how the hell could they find the time and money to learn new skills to get better paying jobs? That is part of the cycle of poverty.

One final point: I’ve never worked fast food, but like many, I’ve been a customer to these businesses. We all know these people just don’t stand around “flipping burgers and dunking fries”. That is a big oversimplification of the job. They all have to take turns running the drive thru, the front registers, and prepare food. It’s non-stop labor from the start of their shift to the end. On top of that, they have to deal with the biggest kind of asshole customers on the planet.

Grampa Murked U

You looking for a raise Billyboy! Honestly you don’t deserve it.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Billy000]

When the RIghtwing thinks of $15 per hour, they see it as a symbol of hard work and skilled labor. The problem with this is that in today’s economy, $15 per hour is a meager wage that in places like Cali or NY still amounts to poverty. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of cost of living. As a point of reference, the last time someone could get by on $10.00 per hour was in the 1960s. In fact, if the minimum wage had kept up with the rate of inflation, it should be $20.00 per hour. Now you can make the argument that the government shouldn’t raise the min wage, but that wouldn’t change the fact that $20 per hour is what single people need to live on nationwide. (And no, I am not suggesting we just magically make the min wage $20 per hour).

Now, of course, cons will say “well those people should just learn new skills and get a better job!” The problem with this, however, is that the average age of a fast food worker is 35. This isn’t entirely by choice - it’s just the most readily available job one can get. Higher wage jobs in this country are extremely competitive. Low wage jobs greatly outnumber higher wage jobs. This means millions of workers have NO CHOICE but to accept shit paying jobs. More importantly, if these people are making shit wages, how the hell could they find the time and money to learn new skills to get better paying jobs? That is part of the cycle of poverty.

One final point: I’ve never worked fast food, but like many, I’ve been a customer to these businesses. We all know these people just don’t stand around “flipping burgers and dunking fries”. That is a big oversimplification of the job. They all have to take turns running the drive thru, the front registers, and prepare food. It’s non-stop labor from the start of their shift to the end. On top of that, they have to deal with the biggest kind of asshole customers on the planet.

Grampa Murked U

You looking for a raise Billyboy! Honestly you don’t deserve it.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Lol I love how you’re so childish and pathetic to accuse me of being a fast food worker so that I’m supposed to be offended by it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Who's economic reality?

Are you really this dense? Poor people. Do I really have to spell this out to you?

What has that to do with overpaying for low-level work?

It’s not overpaying based on the simple logic of the cost of living standards. If you weren’t a dumb rightwinger, you’d understand that.

I don't a rat's ass about COL. Not my problem. I'll pay what the work is worth to me. If it's not agreeable, move along. I'll find someone else.

Yeah but no one cares what you think anyway. The grown ups are going to find ways to alleviate poverty.

Want to alleviate poverty? Write to your representative and tell them we need a requirement that anybody who applies for public assistance be fixed first. No more having babies you can't afford. You can't solve poverty when you have poverty popping out poverty children by the millions. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree you know.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

When the RIghtwing thinks of $15 per hour, they see it as a symbol of hard work and skilled labor. The problem with this is that in today’s economy, $15 per hour is a meager wage that in places like Cali or NY still amounts to poverty. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of cost of living. As a point of reference, the last time someone could get by on $10.00 per hour was in the 1960s. In fact, if the minimum wage had kept up with the rate of inflation, it should be $20.00 per hour. Now you can make the argument that the government shouldn’t raise the min wage, but that wouldn’t change the fact that $20 per hour is what single people need to live on nationwide. (And no, I am not suggesting we just magically make the min wage $20 per hour).

Now, of course, cons will say “well those people should just learn new skills and get a better job!” The problem with this, however, is that the average age of a fast food worker is 35. This isn’t entirely by choice - it’s just the most readily available job one can get. Higher wage jobs in this country are extremely competitive. Low wage jobs greatly outnumber higher wage jobs. This means millions of workers have NO CHOICE but to accept shit paying jobs. More importantly, if these people are making shit wages, how the hell could they find the time and money to learn new skills to get better paying jobs? That is part of the cycle of poverty.

One final point: I’ve never worked fast food, but like many, I’ve been a customer to these businesses. We all know these people just don’t stand around “flipping burgers and dunking fries”. That is a big oversimplification of the job. They all have to take turns running the drive thru, the front registers, and prepare food. It’s non-stop labor from the start of their shift to the end. On top of that, they have to deal with the biggest kind of asshole customers on the planet.

Tough shit. The work they perform has minimal value. They are not worth $15.00 per hour.

C3PO will do it for free after initial construction costs.

The idea that people get paid what they're actually worth has always been a bullshit myth. If the guy serving hundreds of customers a day is of "minimal value" what does that say about the guy at the top being paid millions to push a pencil? We already have computer programs that could replace half of them.

That brings to question what is a worker worth and how that is calculated. It's rather simple:

A worker is only worth as much as their employer can find somebody else to do the same quality of work for the same money. That's it. Education doesn't matter, experience doesn't matter, training doesn't matter, social stance doesn't matter.

If you make $20.00 an hour working at a drill press, leave the company because they didn't give you a raise, and your employer replaces you with another worker for $20.00 an hour, that's all your labor and talent were worth. If he can replace you by paying somebody less, then you were overpaid in the first place. If he has to increase the wage to get a new worker, you were underpaid.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Why shouldn't the person doing the real work get more of the profit? It is kind of like the manager of a foot ball team should get some but the guy doing the real work on the field gets just as much if not more.

The fact that the manager or ceo takes most of it in the food industry and the guy doing the work gets fucked is a serious problem.

 

[Jarlaxle]

How many here only buy American made Amazon items?

Do you set an item back down in a Walmart when its foreign made?

Domestic beer?

US owned vehicles?

Reward companies that pay US employees. That is more effective than tax rates.

I try...but way too often, there simply is no option. EVERYTHING available is imported. At this point, I'm happy if it isn't from China.

 

[Defiant1]

Fuck minimum wage.
Unskilled labor should have to pay their employer for the valuable training they get.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

When these lowly-paid workers get their check, it's spent (back in the economy) before night-fall, in most cases.
When the rich get a payout, it mostly goes to an off-shore tax haven.
A sharp rise in the minimum wage would do more for the economy than any tax cuts for the wealthy.

https://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2009/12/03/why-rich-consumers-matter-more

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

How many here only buy American made Amazon items?

Do you set an item back down in a Walmart when its foreign made?

Domestic beer?

US owned vehicles?

Reward companies that pay US employees. That is more effective than tax rates.

Exactly, because wages are set because of customer demands. If the American consumer mostly purchase products because of the lowest price, you must provide the lowest price to satisfy the consumers. You can't do that by paying your toilet cleaners and floor sweepers $20.00 an hour plus benefits. We are in competition with a world market now.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The best reason?

Probably because upper management and the ceo makes 1,000 to 10,000 times as much as the normal worker. With the right unions committed to giving a voice to the worker some of this could flow down to the workers....Probably better then a minimum wage and the hourly pay would probably be around $15 bucks per hour...The benefits of doing it this way is they wouldn't need to jack up the price on the consumer.

Then start your own company and pay your workers that wage. How long do you think it would take before your competitors put you out of business?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why shouldn't the person doing the real work get more of the profit? It is kind of like the manager of a foot ball team should get some but the guy doing the real work on the field gets just as much if not more.

The fact that the manager or ceo takes most of it in the food industry and the guy doing the work gets fucked is a serious problem.

Why?

A company can replace a french fry maker, a shelf stocker, a pizza delivery guy. A company cannot replace a good CEO who is responsible for the profits the company makes.

 

[Billy000]

Are you really this dense? Poor people. Do I really have to spell this out to you?

What has that to do with overpaying for low-level work?

It’s not overpaying based on the simple logic of the cost of living standards. If you weren’t a dumb rightwinger, you’d understand that.

I don't a rat's ass about COL. Not my problem. I'll pay what the work is worth to me. If it's not agreeable, move along. I'll find someone else.

Yeah but no one cares what you think anyway. The grown ups are going to find ways to alleviate poverty.

Want to alleviate poverty? Write to your representative and tell them we need a requirement that anybody who applies for public assistance be fixed first. No more having babies you can't afford. You can't solve poverty when you have poverty popping out poverty children by the millions. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree you know.

See what’s dumb about your logic is that when it comes to kids a mom can’t pay for, the benefits she receives is meant for her kids. The kids don’t choose to be born at the wrong time. Also, shaming these moms accomplishes nothing besides making yourself feel superior and tough in comparison. Sometimes fathers ditch their families. I don’t see you assclowns shaming the fathers for not sticking around after getting a woman pregnant.

 

[Harry Dresden]

so their low wage job is tougher than other low wage jobs?.....

This job was singled out in another thread. I’m just defending it. My overall point, is that people need at least $15 per hour to survive. Raising the minimum wage is a separate issue, however. I don’t believe it should just become the new standard over night. Gradually raising the min wage over time should have begun decades ago.

you do realize that those in the brackets above will also want a raise and so on up the scale....

No economic solution is perfect. There will always be unhappy people. Plenty more people are already miserable with the status quo.

doesnt take away what i said.....if the minimum wage people say get that 15 an hour,the 15 an hour people and everyone above them will want a raise.....

Yeah and I don’t care about their feelings. What matters is a fair wage for anyone who works.

you would care if you were the owner of the company AND you would be wanting a raise if you were one of the higher paid guys...i see many people getting laid off to let the lower guys get that 15 and the ones who will get laid off are the lower wage people....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What has that to do with overpaying for low-level work?

It’s not overpaying based on the simple logic of the cost of living standards. If you weren’t a dumb rightwinger, you’d understand that.

I don't a rat's ass about COL. Not my problem. I'll pay what the work is worth to me. If it's not agreeable, move along. I'll find someone else.

Yeah but no one cares what you think anyway. The grown ups are going to find ways to alleviate poverty.

Want to alleviate poverty? Write to your representative and tell them we need a requirement that anybody who applies for public assistance be fixed first. No more having babies you can't afford. You can't solve poverty when you have poverty popping out poverty children by the millions. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree you know.

See what’s dumb about your logic is that when it comes to kids a mom can’t pay for, the benefits she receives is meant for her kids. The kids don’t choose to be born at the wrong time. Also, shaming these moms accomplishes nothing besides making yourself feel superior and tough in comparison. Sometimes fathers ditch their families. I don’t see you assclowns shaming the fathers for not sticking around after getting a woman pregnant.

Nope. Same goes for the father as well. If a male applicant has children he's not supporting, he doesn't get one dime until he's had a vasectomy first; paid for by us taxpayers of course.

There is nothing illogical about my comment. I've seen it all too many times; women having children just to get more government benefits. The more kids she has, the bigger HUD house in the suburbs, the larger the SNAP's card, the larger the welfare checks.

Correct, the kids don't choose when they are born--our government does via taxpayers.

You can't stop poverty by providing incentives to create more poverty. It's just a dumb concept.

 

[toobfreak]

When the RIghtwing thinks of $15 per hour, they see it as a symbol of hard work and skilled labor. The problem with this is that in today’s economy, $15 per hour is a meager wage that in places like Cali or NY still amounts to poverty. Wages for the poor are way behind on the rise of cost of living. As a point of reference, the last time someone could get by on $10.00 per hour was in the 1960s. In fact, if the minimum wage had kept up with the rate of inflation, it should be $20.00 per hour. Now you can make the argument that the government shouldn’t raise the min wage, but that wouldn’t change the fact that $20 per hour is what single people need to live on nationwide. (And no, I am not suggesting we just magically make the min wage $20 per hour).

Now, of course, cons will say “well those people should just learn new skills and get a better job!” The problem with this, however, is that the average age of a fast food worker is 35. This isn’t entirely by choice - it’s just the most readily available job one can get. Higher wage jobs in this country are extremely competitive. Low wage jobs greatly outnumber higher wage jobs. This means millions of workers have NO CHOICE but to accept shit paying jobs. More importantly, if these people are making shit wages, how the hell could they find the time and money to learn new skills to get better paying jobs? That is part of the cycle of poverty.

One final point: I’ve never worked fast food, but like many, I’ve been a customer to these businesses. We all know these people just don’t stand around “flipping burgers and dunking fries”. That is a big oversimplification of the job. They all have to take turns running the drive thru, the front registers, and prepare food. It’s non-stop labor from the start of their shift to the end. On top of that, they have to deal with the biggest kind of asshole customers on the planet.

Grampa Murked U

Spoiler Alert: In the next 10-20 years, burger jobs won't be worth $15 an hour, they won't be worth a dime. Because they are All going to eventually be automated and replaced by robots. Ours is a society of people who wants to do away with dealing with itself. In a century, the only work will be designing and servicing robots.