Here's an issue that BOTH sides should agree on...but the right won't

[miketx]

We are about to witness another convoluted, poorly planned, costly and ineffective HC proposal (note that I used he adjective "another" since the ACA was a major step in the right direction but also has many, many flaws.)

Now think back on the controversy when a bit more than a half century ago, LBJ signed into law Medicare.....It was labeled a socialistic monster and, today, virtually no US citizen, approaching retirement would dream of abolishing this valuable program (although the lack of dental coverage is a major flaw for seniors.)

Why has Medicare worked so damn well???....Simple,it is a plan that requires ALL workers to chip in through a payroll reduction......it requires contributions from the healthy and the not so healthy and requires contributions even when someone has already retired from the work force....

In essence, Medicare is a SINGLE-PAYER HC program that 52 years later has proven mostly successful and has helped millions and millions of our fellow citizens be healthier in their old age and avoided the bankruptcy that were so common before the program,

Somehow, however, many Americans would rather send a check to some private company whose purpose is to AVOID costly coverage payments and maximize its profits, RATHER than sending a check to the Federal government.....

Private health insurers (and big pharma and hospital conglomerates) spend MILLIONS to either bribe elected officials or propagandize that it is they who care for common Americans...and such strategies have worked extremely well since most republicans would STILL rather subsidize a HC company's CEO's private jet than be subjected to sending a check to a government that they've been bred to hate....

meanwhile, the rest of the civilized world laughs or shakes its head at our own stupidity.

Why do you demand bigger government?

 

[hadit]

The intelligentsia of the Mods on this forum chose to move this thread to something called "Obamacare"....which shows not only how ignorant they can be but also how right leaning they are in not calling that topic by its real name ACA, and not the lame derision of Obamacare.

If you prefer, we can call it by it's more accurate name, obamadon'tcare.

 

[nat4900]

If you prefer, we can call it by it's more accurate name, obamadon'tcare.

Not that it makes any difference to idiots stuck on FOX....but,

Pew Research states that a majority of Americans (60%) believe the government should be responsible for ensuring health care for all.

 

[hadit]

If you prefer, we can call it by it's more accurate name, obamadon'tcare.

Not that it makes any difference to idiots stuck on FOX....but,

Pew Research states that a majority of Americans (60%) believe the government should be responsible for ensuring health care for all.

So we'll call it obamadon'tcare then?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

We are about to witness another convoluted, poorly planned, costly and ineffective HC proposal (note that I used he adjective "another" since the ACA was a major step in the right direction but also has many, many flaws.)

Now think back on the controversy when a bit more than a half century ago, LBJ signed into law Medicare.....It was labeled a socialistic monster and, today, virtually no US citizen, approaching retirement would dream of abolishing this valuable program (although the lack of dental coverage is a major flaw for seniors.)

Why has Medicare worked so damn well???....Simple,it is a plan that requires ALL workers to chip in through a payroll reduction......it requires contributions from the healthy and the not so healthy and requires contributions even when someone has already retired from the work force....

Medicare works, but I don't know that I would say it works "well." A growing number of doctors over recent years have stopped accepting new Medicare patients because the government doesn't reimburse them accordingly and they lose money on them.

Somehow, however, many Americans would rather send a check to some private company whose purpose is to AVOID costly coverage payments and maximize its profits, RATHER than sending a check to the Federal government.....

Private health insurers (and big pharma and hospital conglomerates) spend MILLIONS to either bribe elected officials or propagandize that it is they who care for common Americans...and such strategies have worked extremely well since most republicans would STILL rather subsidize a HC company's CEO's private jet than be subjected to sending a check to a government that they've been bred to hate....

It was your party that passed a law requiring everyone to be pawns of the insurance cartel, not the Republicans. You people have railed against "big insurance" for years, but emphatically applauded Obama when he signed an unconstitutional law requiring you to buy their product.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

What the rest of the civilized world has successfully been able to accomplish regarding HC, our country CANNOT......Why?

Because our population is filled with MORONS and FOX watchers.

 

[dblack]

Somehow, however, many Americans would rather send a check to some private company whose purpose is to AVOID costly coverage payments and maximize its profits, RATHER than sending a check to the Federal government.....

Hell yea! Because sending a cheque to an insurance company is a voluntary act ... sending a cheque to the government isn't.

As long as the insurance companies get their pound of flesh. That's the whole point.

 

[dblack]

We are about to witness another convoluted, poorly planned, costly and ineffective HC proposal (note that I used he adjective "another" since the ACA was a major step in the right direction but also has many, many flaws.)

Now think back on the controversy when a bit more than a half century ago, LBJ signed into law Medicare.....It was labeled a socialistic monster and, today, virtually no US citizen, approaching retirement would dream of abolishing this valuable program (although the lack of dental coverage is a major flaw for seniors.)

Why has Medicare worked so damn well???....Simple,it is a plan that requires ALL workers to chip in through a payroll reduction......it requires contributions from the healthy and the not so healthy and requires contributions even when someone has already retired from the work force....

In essence, Medicare is a SINGLE-PAYER HC program that 52 years later has proven mostly successful and has helped millions and millions of our fellow citizens be healthier in their old age and avoided the bankruptcy that were so common before the program,

Somehow, however, many Americans would rather send a check to some private company whose purpose is to AVOID costly coverage payments and maximize its profits, RATHER than sending a check to the Federal government.....

Private health insurers (and big pharma and hospital conglomerates) spend MILLIONS to either bribe elected officials or propagandize that it is they who care for common Americans...and such strategies have worked extremely well since most republicans would STILL rather subsidize a HC company's CEO's private jet than be subjected to sending a check to a government that they've been bred to hate....

meanwhile, the rest of the civilized world laughs or shakes its head at our own stupidity.

Why do you demand bigger government?

Same reason people want to join a bigger gang.

 

[nat4900]

Medicare works, but I don't know that I would say it works "well." A growing number of doctors over recent years have stopped accepting new Medicare patients because the government doesn't reimburse them accordingly and they lose money on them.

Agreed.........However, there must be a return to that Oath that doctors took.....and there are THREE problems that have made most doctors a bit greedy and disenchanted:

Problem one: The high (and unreasonable) debt incurred by individuals attending medical school.

Problem two: The high cost of malpractice insurance that even I, as a lefty, think that it is meant to cater to the lawyers' lobbying.

Problem three: Private HC insurance companies demand that doctors spend a ridiculous short amount of time with patients.

Overall, Medicare MUST be allowed to negotiate drug costs and be able to repatriate US drugs from other countries or downright be allowed to import equally good drugs from non-US pharmaceuticals.

 

[nat4900]

What the rest of the civilized world has successfully been able to accomplish regarding HC, our country CANNOT......Why?

Because our population is filled with MORONS and FOX watchers.

A CANADIAN'S response.......

I love these questions from Americans. I live in Vancouver, on the west coast about 2 hours north of Seattle.

So let’s go through some of the items US Liberals look for.

Healthcare - We pay monthly in BC to our medical system. It is called BC medical and, right now, it is $232…for a family of four. They just announced April 1st they are cutting it in half. Hence, any extended healthcare, including dental, is generally less than $200.00 per month and that pays for your prescriptions, therapists, eye-care and a host of other services. So…what are the restrictions on using our healthcare system….none! Ambulance…paid, need prosthetics…paid, need 5 years of aftercare and therapy…paid. By the way, we are just starting construction on our 5th new hospital in 15 years…free to use of course. So what does this get you. Our Vancouver General Cancer research center is one of the top 5 in the world. Our UBC hospital houses the premier genealogical research facility in the world.

Taxes - Federal income taxes start at 26% for the middle class and is 42% for the upper class. Our provincial and federal sales taxes together are 12%…California and Washington state are both 15%. Our fuel, alcohol and tobacco are heavily taxed and accounts for billions in government money…somehow we still sell just as much per capita as you do in the US.

Racism - I am pretty safe in saying that it is pretty much a non starter here. We have had groups try to rally around racism but they fizzle out pretty quickly. It just isn’t there. There is a concern over asian investors buying houses and apartments and leaving them empty…but that would be the same reaction if they were California elite. In the US they have built a billion dollar industry around racism…there is too much at stake to solve the problem…

Government - There is one thing our government has that yours lacks…common sense!! It is at the point in the US where people are pro life JUST because the other side is pro choice. gay marriage…same thing. Frickin transgender bathroom issue…common sense says as children they tow the line…when they are age of consent, it really is up to them. The biggest reaction you might get is that she comes back to the table and says there is a dude in a dress using the can!! Again, the TG community tried to start it here and were, for the most part told who cares which one you use…just don’t pee on the floor…RIDICULOUS.

Social Safety Net - Did you know that LA and the surrounding area has more homeless people per capita than some major third world cities? We are concerned because our homeless is pushing towards 2,000 people, but there is 800 beds being built for them at the moment. In Canada, our government provides for and looks after our less fortunate citizens…In the US, they manage them through law enforcement. There is no state services available…it has been left to communities to provide their own hospice care. The way I see it, they are taken off the unemployment stats, the homeless stats, and the welfare stats. This way the gov’t no longer has to concern themselves with them…they are literally thrown away…disgraceful!!

Infrastructure - this is simple…all levels of our government have infrastructure they are responsible for. Quite simply, they ensure that the resources, manpower and equipment are available to maintain it…and improve it. In the US, by the time they get through all of the stakeholders to actually do some work, there is very little left. We are talking studies, consultants, special interest payoffs, entitlements…the list goes on.

Violence - Your gun lobby is out of control!! Your gun culture is out of control. I asked a whole bunch of people I know of all ages how many times in their life, other than on a police officer, have they seen a handgun. Almost to a person the answer was a couple times but didn’t hold one and never shot one. Before the fight to take back Mosul, even with Isis controlling some areas, 21 US states, and 3 cities, had more murders in the preceding 2 years than the entire country of Iraq…who is at war?

I could keep going, but the gist is that we may be a Liberal minded, financially conservative (oh yeah…we never had a recession in BC), socialist leaning society but at least we are not suffering through some very real third world issues like the US!!

 

[Sun Devil 92]

What the rest of the civilized world has successfully been able to accomplish regarding HC, our country CANNOT......Why?

Because our population is filled with MORONS and FOX watchers.

A CANADIAN'S response.......

I love these questions from Americans. I live in Vancouver, on the west coast about 2 hours north of Seattle.

So let’s go through some of the items US Liberals look for.

Healthcare - We pay monthly in BC to our medical system. It is called BC medical and, right now, it is $232…for a family of four. They just announced April 1st they are cutting it in half. Hence, any extended healthcare, including dental, is generally less than $200.00 per month and that pays for your prescriptions, therapists, eye-care and a host of other services. So…what are the restrictions on using our healthcare system….none! Ambulance…paid, need prosthetics…paid, need 5 years of aftercare and therapy…paid. By the way, we are just starting construction on our 5th new hospital in 15 years…free to use of course. So what does this get you. Our Vancouver General Cancer research center is one of the top 5 in the world. Our UBC hospital houses the premier genealogical research facility in the world.

Taxes - Federal income taxes start at 26% for the middle class and is 42% for the upper class. Our provincial and federal sales taxes together are 12%…California and Washington state are both 15%. Our fuel, alcohol and tobacco are heavily taxed and accounts for billions in government money…somehow we still sell just as much per capita as you do in the US.

Racism - I am pretty safe in saying that it is pretty much a non starter here. We have had groups try to rally around racism but they fizzle out pretty quickly. It just isn’t there. There is a concern over asian investors buying houses and apartments and leaving them empty…but that would be the same reaction if they were California elite. In the US they have built a billion dollar industry around racism…there is too much at stake to solve the problem…

Government - There is one thing our government has that yours lacks…common sense!! It is at the point in the US where people are pro life JUST because the other side is pro choice. gay marriage…same thing. Frickin transgender bathroom issue…common sense says as children they tow the line…when they are age of consent, it really is up to them. The biggest reaction you might get is that she comes back to the table and says there is a dude in a dress using the can!! Again, the TG community tried to start it here and were, for the most part told who cares which one you use…just don’t pee on the floor…RIDICULOUS.

Social Safety Net - Did you know that LA and the surrounding area has more homeless people per capita than some major third world cities? We are concerned because our homeless is pushing towards 2,000 people, but there is 800 beds being built for them at the moment. In Canada, our government provides for and looks after our less fortunate citizens…In the US, they manage them through law enforcement. There is no state services available…it has been left to communities to provide their own hospice care. The way I see it, they are taken off the unemployment stats, the homeless stats, and the welfare stats. This way the gov’t no longer has to concern themselves with them…they are literally thrown away…disgraceful!!

Infrastructure - this is simple…all levels of our government have infrastructure they are responsible for. Quite simply, they ensure that the resources, manpower and equipment are available to maintain it…and improve it. In the US, by the time they get through all of the stakeholders to actually do some work, there is very little left. We are talking studies, consultants, special interest payoffs, entitlements…the list goes on.

Violence - Your gun lobby is out of control!! Your gun culture is out of control. I asked a whole bunch of people I know of all ages how many times in their life, other than on a police officer, have they seen a handgun. Almost to a person the answer was a couple times but didn’t hold one and never shot one. Before the fight to take back Mosul, even with Isis controlling some areas, 21 US states, and 3 cities, had more murders in the preceding 2 years than the entire country of Iraq…who is at war?

I could keep going, but the gist is that we may be a Liberal minded, financially conservative (oh yeah…we never had a recession in BC), socialist leaning society but at least we are not suffering through some very real third world issues like the US!!

The other shoe falls.

I've got plenty of things to say about Canada, but I really don't get off bashing other countries (in general).

My posting that video was to point out that some of you don't like your system (and I know plenty others who feel the same way).

I've been to three major cities in Canada and know what I see (like immigrants who are doctors driving cabs because of the protectionist nature of you medical system....all the while watching political ads that say someone drove out all the doctors.....).

I am glad you love Canada. I hope everyone loves the country they live in.

But since you don't live here.......and yet are a harping moronic critic....I have no trouble saying:

1. You have your own issues to fix (plenty of them).......
2. We could own you if we wanted to.
3. Go fuck yourself.......