Here is the problem with the healthcare debate at the moment

[GHook93]

The Republicans are protraying themselves as saviors from Obamacare and want to get us back to status quo (or a few talking point changes that will do little - like tort reform and buying across statelines).

Obamacare might not be the answer, but our system is a fucking mess and needs to be changes ASAP. Most Americans are one sickness or injury away from losing everything! Medical bills are still the leading cause of bankruptcy! Healthcare is still outrageously expensive! Ditto for health insurance. Pre-existing conditions puts the people that really need healthcare in no win situation. Health insurance coverage puts our corporations and small businesses at a HUGE disadvantage in the global market.

I repeat, going back to what it was is NOT ideal or acceptable.

You say the Republicans are proposing a repeal and replace bill. Sorry if I don't trust them, because they did have both houses of Congress and the Presidency for 6 years and a good economy, with low unemployment during the Bush years and they did DICK!

 

[syrenn]

How about the simple idea that now is not the best time for social experimentation.


just a thought.

 

[Oddball]

The biggest problem with the debate is the underlying presumption that the best way to pay one's medical care bills is via a third party.

 

[midcan5]

There are always good excuses for not getting off the couch and moving forward.

"Material poverty provides the incentive to change precisely in situations where there is very little margin for experiments. Material prosperity removes the incentive just when it might be safe to take a chance. Europe lacks the means, America the will, to make a move. We need a new set of convictions which spring naturally from candid examination of our own inner feelings in relation to the outside facts." John Maynard Keynes
>

 

[Oddball]

Unfortunately, platitudes and silly-assed quotations don't constitute "getting off the couch and moving forward".

 

[RDD_1210]

How about the simple idea that now is not the best time for social experimentation.


just a thought.

Can you elaborate on this "social experimentation"?

 

[Bern80]

The Republicans are protraying themselves as saviors from Obamacare and want to get us back to status quo (or a few talking point changes that will do little - like tort reform and buying across statelines).

Obamacare might not be the answer, but our system is a fucking mess and needs to be changes ASAP. Most Americans are one sickness or injury away from losing everything! Medical bills is still the leading cause of bankruptcy! Healthcare is still outrageously expensive! Ditto for health insurance. Pre-existing conditions puts the people that really need healthcare in no win situation. Health insurance coverage puts our corporations and small businesses at a HUGE disadvantage in the global market.

I repeat, going back to what it was is NOT ideal or acceptable.

You say the Republicans are proposing a repeal and replace bill. Sorry if I don't trust them, because they did have both houses of Congress and the Presidency for 6 years and a good economy, with low unemployment during the Bush years and they did DICK!

There are all kinds of problems with the health care debate. One of them, and case in point here, would be the misrepresentation of what the right wants. No we don't want the status quo. Another would be that you seem to believe that doing something, anything, is always better than doing nothing. I have heard this from two people now on this board, you and RDD. "Well I really don't like most of the bill either, but hey it's something, so that's good, right?" WRONG!

 

[RDD_1210]

The Republicans are protraying themselves as saviors from Obamacare and want to get us back to status quo (or a few talking point changes that will do little - like tort reform and buying across statelines).

Obamacare might not be the answer, but our system is a fucking mess and needs to be changes ASAP. Most Americans are one sickness or injury away from losing everything! Medical bills is still the leading cause of bankruptcy! Healthcare is still outrageously expensive! Ditto for health insurance. Pre-existing conditions puts the people that really need healthcare in no win situation. Health insurance coverage puts our corporations and small businesses at a HUGE disadvantage in the global market.

I repeat, going back to what it was is NOT ideal or acceptable.

You say the Republicans are proposing a repeal and replace bill. Sorry if I don't trust them, because they did have both houses of Congress and the Presidency for 6 years and a good economy, with low unemployment during the Bush years and they did DICK!

There are all kinds of problems with the health care debate. One of them, and case in point here, would be the misrepresentation of what the right wants. No we don't want the status quo. Another would be that you seem to believe that doing something, anything, is always better than doing nothing. I have heard this from two people now on this board, you and RDD. "Well I really don't like most of the bill either, but hey it's something, so that's good, right?" WRONG!

Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I wish you would read what I actually type. I said the bill isn't perfect, but it's certainly better then what we had before the bill. That's quite a bit different than "I don't like most of the bill".

 

[BenMarbleMD]

the primary problem is that DOCTORS have NO VOICE in the debate (hint the AMA does NOT represent doctors they represent BIG PHARMA and that is why the majority of MD's do NOT belong to the AMA)

 

[GHook93]

The Republicans are protraying themselves as saviors from Obamacare and want to get us back to status quo (or a few talking point changes that will do little - like tort reform and buying across statelines).

Obamacare might not be the answer, but our system is a fucking mess and needs to be changes ASAP. Most Americans are one sickness or injury away from losing everything! Medical bills is still the leading cause of bankruptcy! Healthcare is still outrageously expensive! Ditto for health insurance. Pre-existing conditions puts the people that really need healthcare in no win situation. Health insurance coverage puts our corporations and small businesses at a HUGE disadvantage in the global market.

I repeat, going back to what it was is NOT ideal or acceptable.

You say the Republicans are proposing a repeal and replace bill. Sorry if I don't trust them, because they did have both houses of Congress and the Presidency for 6 years and a good economy, with low unemployment during the Bush years and they did DICK!

There are all kinds of problems with the health care debate. One of them, and case in point here, would be the misrepresentation of what the right wants. No we don't want the status quo. Another would be that you seem to believe that doing something, anything, is always better than doing nothing. I have heard this from two people now on this board, you and RDD. "Well I really don't like most of the bill either, but hey it's something, so that's good, right?" WRONG!

I have never stated that do something or anything is the solution, but remaining at status quo is definitely not the answer. The Republicans had Congress during Clinton's Presidency and did nothing. Then they had it during Bush's Presidency and did nothing. So when I say they are OK with status quo and you say they aren't, I point to their actions and what they dictate!

 

[Bern80]

The Republicans are protraying themselves as saviors from Obamacare and want to get us back to status quo (or a few talking point changes that will do little - like tort reform and buying across statelines).

Obamacare might not be the answer, but our system is a fucking mess and needs to be changes ASAP. Most Americans are one sickness or injury away from losing everything! Medical bills is still the leading cause of bankruptcy! Healthcare is still outrageously expensive! Ditto for health insurance. Pre-existing conditions puts the people that really need healthcare in no win situation. Health insurance coverage puts our corporations and small businesses at a HUGE disadvantage in the global market.

I repeat, going back to what it was is NOT ideal or acceptable.

You say the Republicans are proposing a repeal and replace bill. Sorry if I don't trust them, because they did have both houses of Congress and the Presidency for 6 years and a good economy, with low unemployment during the Bush years and they did DICK!

There are all kinds of problems with the health care debate. One of them, and case in point here, would be the misrepresentation of what the right wants. No we don't want the status quo. Another would be that you seem to believe that doing something, anything, is always better than doing nothing. I have heard this from two people now on this board, you and RDD. "Well I really don't like most of the bill either, but hey it's something, so that's good, right?" WRONG!

I have never stated that do something or anything is the solution, but remaining at status quo is definitely not the answer. The Republicans had Congress during Clinton's Presidency and did nothing. Then they had it during Bush's Presidency and did nothing. So when I say they are OK with status quo and you say they aren't, I point to their actions and what they dictate!

I see, so they just don't mean what they say now? Or they're not allowed to have a change of heart?

 

[Bern80]

The Republicans are protraying themselves as saviors from Obamacare and want to get us back to status quo (or a few talking point changes that will do little - like tort reform and buying across statelines).

Obamacare might not be the answer, but our system is a fucking mess and needs to be changes ASAP. Most Americans are one sickness or injury away from losing everything! Medical bills is still the leading cause of bankruptcy! Healthcare is still outrageously expensive! Ditto for health insurance. Pre-existing conditions puts the people that really need healthcare in no win situation. Health insurance coverage puts our corporations and small businesses at a HUGE disadvantage in the global market.

I repeat, going back to what it was is NOT ideal or acceptable.

You say the Republicans are proposing a repeal and replace bill. Sorry if I don't trust them, because they did have both houses of Congress and the Presidency for 6 years and a good economy, with low unemployment during the Bush years and they did DICK!

There are all kinds of problems with the health care debate. One of them, and case in point here, would be the misrepresentation of what the right wants. No we don't want the status quo. Another would be that you seem to believe that doing something, anything, is always better than doing nothing. I have heard this from two people now on this board, you and RDD. "Well I really don't like most of the bill either, but hey it's something, so that's good, right?" WRONG!

Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I wish you would read what I actually type. I said the bill isn't perfect, but it's certainly better then what we had before the bill. That's quite a bit different than "I don't like most of the bill".

And even that is debatable. The ONLY 'good' thing it does is cover those that weren't covered and it used about the most inefficient, immoral, fiscally irresponsible method possible to do it. Congratufuckinglations on your 'better' health care.

 

[RDD_1210]

There are all kinds of problems with the health care debate. One of them, and case in point here, would be the misrepresentation of what the right wants. No we don't want the status quo. Another would be that you seem to believe that doing something, anything, is always better than doing nothing. I have heard this from two people now on this board, you and RDD. "Well I really don't like most of the bill either, but hey it's something, so that's good, right?" WRONG!

Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I wish you would read what I actually type. I said the bill isn't perfect, but it's certainly better then what we had before the bill. That's quite a bit different than "I don't like most of the bill".

And even that is debatable. The ONLY 'good' thing it does is cover those that weren't covered and it used about the most inefficient, immoral, fiscally irresponsible method possible to do it. Congratufuckinglations on your 'better' health care.

Spoken like someone who doesn't want to like or even understand what the legislation actually does.

 

[Immanuel]

The Republicans are protraying themselves as saviors from Obamacare and want to get us back to status quo (or a few talking point changes that will do little - like tort reform and buying across statelines).

Obamacare might not be the answer, but our system is a fucking mess and needs to be changes ASAP. Most Americans are one sickness or injury away from losing everything! Medical bills is still the leading cause of bankruptcy! Healthcare is still outrageously expensive! Ditto for health insurance. Pre-existing conditions puts the people that really need healthcare in no win situation. Health insurance coverage puts our corporations and small businesses at a HUGE disadvantage in the global market.

I repeat, going back to what it was is NOT ideal or acceptable.

You say the Republicans are proposing a repeal and replace bill. Sorry if I don't trust them, because they did have both houses of Congress and the Presidency for 6 years and a good economy, with low unemployment during the Bush years and they did DICK!

There are all kinds of problems with the health care debate. One of them, and case in point here, would be the misrepresentation of what the right wants. No we don't want the status quo. Another would be that you seem to believe that doing something, anything, is always better than doing nothing. I have heard this from two people now on this board, you and RDD. "Well I really don't like most of the bill either, but hey it's something, so that's good, right?" WRONG!

However, unfortunately, the Republicans seem to be all talk and zero action. One way or another, the prospect of them doing something to actually fix the problems (the problems of the status quo before health care "reform" and those problems created by the "reform") is extremely dim. We will either be stuck with the old system or stuck with the new system and the American Taxpayer will be screwed one way or another.

Immie

 

[Bern80]

Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I wish you would read what I actually type. I said the bill isn't perfect, but it's certainly better then what we had before the bill. That's quite a bit different than "I don't like most of the bill".

And even that is debatable. The ONLY 'good' thing it does is cover those that weren't covered and it used about the most inefficient, immoral, fiscally irresponsible method possible to do it. Congratufuckinglations on your 'better' health care.

Spoken like someone who doesn't want to like or even understand what the legislation actually does.

I know what you've told me and that is 350 million americans need to be required to purchase health care to make up for those that won't. Which indeed is an inefficient, immoral and fiscally irresponsible means of solving the problem of paying for people who can't and/or won't purchase health care.

 

[Bern80]

The Republicans are protraying themselves as saviors from Obamacare and want to get us back to status quo (or a few talking point changes that will do little - like tort reform and buying across statelines).

Obamacare might not be the answer, but our system is a fucking mess and needs to be changes ASAP. Most Americans are one sickness or injury away from losing everything! Medical bills is still the leading cause of bankruptcy! Healthcare is still outrageously expensive! Ditto for health insurance. Pre-existing conditions puts the people that really need healthcare in no win situation. Health insurance coverage puts our corporations and small businesses at a HUGE disadvantage in the global market.

I repeat, going back to what it was is NOT ideal or acceptable.

You say the Republicans are proposing a repeal and replace bill. Sorry if I don't trust them, because they did have both houses of Congress and the Presidency for 6 years and a good economy, with low unemployment during the Bush years and they did DICK!

There are all kinds of problems with the health care debate. One of them, and case in point here, would be the misrepresentation of what the right wants. No we don't want the status quo. Another would be that you seem to believe that doing something, anything, is always better than doing nothing. I have heard this from two people now on this board, you and RDD. "Well I really don't like most of the bill either, but hey it's something, so that's good, right?" WRONG!

However, unfortunately, the Republicans seem to be all talk and zero action. One way or another, the prospect of them doing something to actually fix the problems (the problems of the status quo before health care "reform" and those problems created by the "reform") is extremely dim. We will either be stuck with the old system or stuck with the new system and the American Taxpayer will be screwed one way or another.

Immie

That the Republicans have no plan is a message controlled solely by the left. They offered their ideas and were shut out of the process by Obama because it was his way or the highway. They do have a current action plan but since Obama is again not willing to hear it there hand is forced. before they can do anything else, Obamacare has to be repealed.

 

[RDD_1210]

And even that is debatable. The ONLY 'good' thing it does is cover those that weren't covered and it used about the most inefficient, immoral, fiscally irresponsible method possible to do it. Congratufuckinglations on your 'better' health care.

Spoken like someone who doesn't want to like or even understand what the legislation actually does.

I know what you've told me and that is 350 million americans need to be required to purchase health care to make up for those that won't. Which indeed is an inefficient, immoral and fiscally irresponsible means of solving the problem of paying for people who can't and/or won't purchase health care.

So, what's a better, efficient, moral, fiscally responsible means of paying for the healthcare of those who can't afford it? Let's hear your plan.

And FYI the mandate is more about preventing the exclusion of people with pre-existing conditions then it is helping to pay for people who have no health insurance. Still hate the mandate?

 

[RDD_1210]

There are all kinds of problems with the health care debate. One of them, and case in point here, would be the misrepresentation of what the right wants. No we don't want the status quo. Another would be that you seem to believe that doing something, anything, is always better than doing nothing. I have heard this from two people now on this board, you and RDD. "Well I really don't like most of the bill either, but hey it's something, so that's good, right?" WRONG!

However, unfortunately, the Republicans seem to be all talk and zero action. One way or another, the prospect of them doing something to actually fix the problems (the problems of the status quo before health care "reform" and those problems created by the "reform") is extremely dim. We will either be stuck with the old system or stuck with the new system and the American Taxpayer will be screwed one way or another.

Immie

That the Republicans have no plan is a message controlled solely by the left. They offered their ideas and were shut out of the process by Obama because it was his way or the highway. They do have a current action plan but since Obama is again not willing to hear it there hand is forced. before they can do anything else, Obamacare has to be repealed.

You're a broken record. Emphasis on broken.....MANY of their ideas are in fact in this legislation, contrary to what you have been led to believe.

 

[Immanuel]

There are all kinds of problems with the health care debate. One of them, and case in point here, would be the misrepresentation of what the right wants. No we don't want the status quo. Another would be that you seem to believe that doing something, anything, is always better than doing nothing. I have heard this from two people now on this board, you and RDD. "Well I really don't like most of the bill either, but hey it's something, so that's good, right?" WRONG!

However, unfortunately, the Republicans seem to be all talk and zero action. One way or another, the prospect of them doing something to actually fix the problems (the problems of the status quo before health care "reform" and those problems created by the "reform") is extremely dim. We will either be stuck with the old system or stuck with the new system and the American Taxpayer will be screwed one way or another.

Immie

That the Republicans have no plan is a message controlled solely by the left. They offered their ideas and were shut out of the process by Obama because it was his way or the highway. They do have a current action plan but since Obama is again not willing to hear it there hand is forced. before they can do anything else, Obamacare has to be repealed.

Did I say they did not have a plan? Nope, I said they would not do anything about it. That would be because they have no more desire to fix the problem than the Democrats do. What matters to them is keeping the flow of corporate dollars into their greasy little palms.

Immie

 

[Mr Natural]

Spoken like someone who doesn't want to like or even understand what the legislation actually does.

I know what you've told me and that is 350 million americans need to be required to purchase health care to make up for those that won't. Which indeed is an inefficient, immoral and fiscally irresponsible means of solving the problem of paying for people who can't and/or won't purchase health care.

So, what's a better, efficient, moral, fiscally responsible means of paying for the healthcare of those who can't afford it? Let's hear your plan.

And FYI the mandate is more about preventing the exclusion of people with pre-existing conditions then it is helping to pay for people who have no health insurance. Still hate the mandate?

I would imagine the plan is to keep things as they were pre-Obamacare where the uninsured show up at the emergency room and the costs get passed down to the rest of us.

I guess somehow, that's supposed to be better.