Hello

[beretta304]

yeah just keep talking to this guy and you will see what I mean

I know the type, I've been at it for over a decade. My point is ignorance can teach a person to disprove ignorance. Before going to political sites, I spent years on Q&A sites, to figure out how to use the internet and find information. If I can post urls and prove him wrong, he's just going to come back with more misinformation, because that's his type. Regardless, I'm not here to badger someone. I don't care what someone believes and I don't try to convince them differently. I think truth matters and I don't want to give them the only voice.

I'm just trying to get to 15 posts so my second post can be posted in the environmental section. I've saved it.

Thank you, but I'm very old at this game. Even so, it was probably a mistake to even mention interests in economics and environment.

I'm just looking for a site where people can discuss things, so I tried this one.

Isn't that what debate is? You prove what you say and the other person disproves you by providing evidence that they are right.

Posting your link and declaring unilateral victory isn't the way it works.


You can take this or leave it as well. You come into a forum, at least the politics board that has about an even split, perhaps a few more Conservatives than Liberals since the elections. It used to be higher for the Conservatives. You use an insulting avatar from the get-go. Yes, you were attacked prematurely... initially... yet you seem to be far better at this than you try to lead people to believe.

As to what I said above, I already have 5 links to counter what you say about oil production, yet you already claimed it isn't what you're here for.

So what are you here for? To pontificate and post and we're supposed to say .."Gee, okay" Dubya is soooo correct I best not refute him? If you're not entertaining counterpoints just what are you trying to accomplish, if anything? Nothing wrong with not replying after someone replies to you but what do you intend to do when someone reads what you post and counters it with a link as backup? You already stated you're not here to do that.

Also by your third post you're defending Obama while again using an insulting GWB avatar. You think that doesn't give a clue as to what one can expect from you? I say that because you claim to not be here to argue. Time will tell. It all comes out in the wash, "Gary".


However, welcome.

 

[Sallow]

My name is Gary and have used the same avatar and name Gary or Dubya for years. I look forward to meaningful discussion, particularly on economic and environmental issues.

Good day to all!

Welcome.

And to be honest, if you are looking for "meaningful discussion" you aren't going to get it by pissing off people that don't agree with you.

Your avatar and handling are insulting.

 

[beretta304]

My name is Gary and have used the same avatar and name Gary or Dubya for years. I look forward to meaningful discussion, particularly on economic and environmental issues.

Good day to all!

Welcome.

And to be honest, if you are looking for "meaningful discussion" you aren't going to get it by pissing off people that don't agree with you.

Your avatar and handling are insulting.

See Sallow, that makes about 4 or 5 times we agreed on something. We're improving.

"Dubya" is on my "highly suspect list". You have to admit that I was very gentle in my post to him. First post he explains his insulting avatar, then he goes on to say he here's to discuss the environment. As I said, time will tell. I was born (some may argue that)..but it wasn't yesterday.

 

[Truthmatters]

My name is Gary and have used the same avatar and name Gary or Dubya for years. I look forward to meaningful discussion, particularly on economic and environmental issues.

Good day to all!

my first online name was deshrubinator.

that was in 2002 when I saw he was marching us to war in Iraq based on nothing but lies.

I could tell from the facts that he was lying even though the media did everything they could to help him.

 

[Warrior102]

My name is Gary and have used the same avatar and name Gary or Dubya for years. I look forward to meaningful discussion, particularly on economic and environmental issues.

Good day to all!

my first online name was deshrubinator.

that was in 2002 when I saw he was marching us to war in Iraq based on nothing but lies.

I could tell from the facts that he was lying even though the media did everything they could to help him.

What a fucking dope ...


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

 

[beretta304]

My name is Gary and have used the same avatar and name Gary or Dubya for years. I look forward to meaningful discussion, particularly on economic and environmental issues.

Good day to all!

my first online name was "deshrubinator".

that was in 2002 when I saw he was marching us to war in Iraq based on nothing but lies.

I could tell from the facts that he was lying even though the media did everything they could to help him.

...and you still have the common sense of a shrub.

 

[Caroljo]

My name is Gary and have used the same avatar and name Gary or Dubya for years. I look forward to meaningful discussion, particularly on economic and environmental issues.

Good day to all!

as you can see you will need to ignore some of the people on here

I don't ignore people, because often their ignorance can lead to the truth. I'm here to debate and discuss issues. I'm not here to flame people or get upset because someone doesn't see the world as I do.

DID YOU HEAR THAT TM???? Someone on your side that actually wants to DISCUSS things and not just bash the other person for their thoughts and beliefs????

Didn't think so...............

Welcome Dubya......

 

[Truthmatters]

I use facts to back my assertions unlike you carl

 

[Truthmatters]

Did Iraq have the WMDs that the Bush admin claimed they did?

 

[beretta304]

Did Iraq have the WMDs that the Bush admin claimed they did?

See post # 45..

 

[Dubya]

as you can see you will need to ignore some of the people on here

I don't ignore people, because often their ignorance can lead to the truth. I'm here to debate and discuss issues. I'm not here to flame people or get upset because someone doesn't see the world as I do.

DID YOU HEAR THAT TM???? Someone on your side that actually wants to DISCUSS things and not just bash the other person for their thoughts and beliefs????

Didn't think so...............

Welcome Dubya......

Thank you, Caroljo!

The truth is someone on your side is stretching the truth a bit, because I'm not ideologically driven on my opinions of various issues.

I actually like sites that have debate forums and like to debate an opinion that is exactly opposite of what I personally believe. I'm definitely much more liberal than conservative in my present beliefs, but some of the best fun I've had on political sites is to switch sides and debate liberals, particularly lawyers, who I've had a lifetime of disgust for, maybe because my dad kept telling me I ought to be one.

My point might be too complicated for some to understand and maybe I don't express it well enough for them. I'm just one person on a planet with over 7 billion people from what I recall. I seriously doubt there is one person on Earth who trully agrees with me about everything and I also doubt any two people on Earth trully agree about everything, unless they are brainwashed to not even think (North Korea comes to mind). Now, why should it upset me if someone doesn't see things the way I do? Can't I have the grace to allow another person to form their own personal beliefs about something?

Now, let's clock population and our world back over my geologically speaking short lifetime. Mankind obviously learned to survive and become a population as large as of over 7 billion people during that time, without people agreeing with each other on everything, because people are sociable creatures to an extent. Now, let's subtract all the wars and violence during that period, reducing population to it's current levels. Even living after the WWII slaughter and the mass slaughters in Russia since 1917, the world just hasn't been a rosey picture during my lifetime.

The reason I juxtaposition the creative and destructive aspects of mankind, is because that is what mankind is, was and will be, until we can learn to change our behavior.

 

[Dubya]

Did Iraq have the WMDs that the Bush admin claimed they did?

Of course they didn't, because there is no way to get WMD across the Syrian Desert, or go north, south, east and west without multi-systems of intelligence knowing about exactly how it was done. There was constant satellite coverage in those times and not just from our country.

Personally, I don't believe our intelligence was that far off in their assessment about Iraq and I think Bush went to war against Iraq without cause and lied to the world. His dad was the head of the CIA, a former VP and President. I think his dad was a good man and Dubya wasn't. The hard part to figure is how they managed to get Tony Blair and the Brits along on that fiasco.

Talk about dumb!