Hello from a discontented American

[Nunyadb]

Hi everyone,

Hope you guys aren't all statists, because that will be a problem for a libertarian like me who believes in a limited constitutional Republic. I am a college student studying in Southern California who loves politics, computers, and music. Unforunately, I hate the way this country is heading and I fear for my future. I am one of those kids and grandkids whose future you old folks claim you are saving

In short, I support free market Austrian economics, advocate noninterventionist foreign policies, appreciate high skepticism of government, and demand liberty across the board. But we need to be practical about how we go about doing it.nLooking forward to debating all that with everyone here!

Hello right back atcha.......from the sounds of things there's not going to be much for
me to debate you about.

I'm one of those old farts that loves his country and hates his government.
There's quite a few of us around.
Glad to meet you.

 

[editec]

Sticking it to the little guy is as American as apple pie, folks.​

Consider if you will the first real clash that the central goverment got into with the people...​

The Whiskey Rebellion 1794​

Small farmers also protested that Hamilton's excise effectively gave unfair tax breaks to large distillers, most ofwhom were based in the east. There were two methods of paying the whiskey excise: paying a flat fee or paying by the gallon. Large distillers produced whiskey in volume and could afford the flat fee. The more efficient they became, the less tax per gallon they would pay. ​

Western farmers who owned small stills did not usually operate them year-round at full capacity, and so they ended up paying a higher tax per gallon, which made them less competitive.

Small distillers believed that Hamilton deliberately designed the tax to ruin them and promote big business, a view endorsed by some historians.[13] However, historian Thomas Slaughter argued that a "conspiracy of this sort is difficult to document".[14] Whether by design or not, large distillers recognized the advantage that the excise gave them, and they supported the tax.[15]

Note how hyistorians debate the MOTIVE of the Whiskey tax, and the way it was imposed, too?​

The timing of these events would later prove to be controversial. In his​

book on the insurrection, Findley —a bitter political foe of Hamilton—maintained that the treasury secretary had deliberately provoked the uprising by issuing the subpoenas just before the law was made less onerous.[45]

In 1963, historian Jacob Cooke, an editor of Hamilton's papers, regarded this charge as "preposterous", calling it a "conspiracy thesis" that overstated Hamilton's control of the federal government.[46]

In 1986, historian Thomas Slaughter argued that the outbreak of the insurrection at this moment was due to "a string of ironic coincidences", although "the question about motives must always remain".[47] In 2006, William Hogeland portrayed Hamilton, Bradford, and Rawle as intentionally pursuing a course of action that would provoke "the kind of violence that would justify federal military suppression".[48]

According to Hogeland, Hamilton had been working towards this moment since the Newburgh Crisis in 1783, where he conceived of using military force to crush popular resistance to direct taxation, for the purpose of promoting national unity and enriching the creditor class at the expense of common taxpayers.[49] The historian Samuel E. Morison believed that, in general, Hamilton wished to enforce the excise law "more as a measure of social discipline than as a source of revenue..."[50]

The PEOPLE weren't exactly thrilled with the central government even way back then, folks.

I note this as many of you seem to think that the Flounding Fathers shat marble and walked on water. CLEARLY the folks who knew them in that age weren't so enamoured with those wig wearing Masters, much as many of us are at this time rather disgusted with the new crop of MASTERS.

On August 1, about 7,000 people gathered at Braddock's Field. Thiswould prove to be the largest gathering of protesters.[64] The crowd consisted primarily of poor people who owned no land. Most did not own whiskey stills.

The furor over the whiskey excise had unleashed anger about other economic grievances. By this time, the victims of violence were often wealthy property owners who had no connection to the whiskey tax.



Some of the most radical protesters wanted to march on Pittsburgh, which they called "Sodom", loot the homes of the wealthy, and then burn the town to the ground.


[66] Others wanted to attack Fort Fayette. There was praise for the French Revolution, and of bringing the guillotine to America. David Bradford, it was said, was comparing himself to Robespierre, a leader of the French Reign of Terror.

Note that ANTIFEDERALISM that was alive and well a mere 5 YEARS after the Consitution (the one so many of you think is a perfect document?) was signed?

Bringing our the TROOPS against the PEOPLE.

PLEASE note how they HAD to get the troops that would fire upon the AMERICAN people?

Militia expedition

Militia was called up from New Jersey, Maryland, Virginia, and eastern Pennsylvania. The federalized militia force of 12,950 men was a large army by American standards of the time: the army that had been with Washington during the Revolutionary War had often been smaller.​

Because relatively few men volunteered for militia service, a draft was used to fill out the ranks.​

Draft evasion was widespread, and conscription efforts resulted in protests and riots, even in eastern areas. Three counties in eastern Virginia were the scenes of armed draft resistance.[85] InMaryland, Governor Thomas Sim Lee sent 800 men to quash an anti-draft riot in Hagerstown; about 150 people were arrested.

source

Do I have a point to posting the above?​

Some of you might get it.

 

[Nunyadb]

People often forget that the Army and Navy fired upon people in NYC in the draft riots during the
Civil War as well. Not everyone loves a centralized government.

We were designed as a Republic for a reason.
Seems people tend to forget that.

 

[Mr. Jones]

Hi everyone,

Hope you guys aren't all statists, because that will be a problem for a libertarian like me who believes in a limited constitutional Republic. I am a college student studying in Southern California who loves politics, computers, and music. Unforunately, I hate the way this country is heading and I fear for my future. I am one of those kids and grandkids whose future you old folks claim you are saving

In short, I support free market Austrian economics, advocate noninterventionist foreign policies, appreciate high skepticism of government, and demand liberty across the board. But we need to be practical about how we go about doing it.nLooking forward to debating all that with everyone here!

Me too. I love my country but despise the way the government has been turned into a Fascist corporate first, middle class be damned hell hole. Welcome, I hope you come with an open mind and respect for those who dare to speak their views.

 

[Warrior102]

Hi everyone,

Hope you guys aren't all statists, because that will be a problem for a libertarian like me who believes in a limited constitutional Republic. I am a college student studying in Southern California who loves politics, computers, and music. Unforunately, I hate the way this country is heading and I fear for my future. I am one of those kids and grandkids whose future you old folks claim you are saving

In short, I support free market Austrian economics, advocate noninterventionist foreign policies, appreciate high skepticism of government, and demand liberty across the board. But we need to be practical about how we go about doing it.nLooking forward to debating all that with everyone here!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK-Dqj4fHmM]YouTube - ‪Classic Movie Line #4‬‏[/ame]