Healthcare wins, the people wins..

[Si modo]

We've been over this ... calling someone a whore for something ... be it K-Street, Wall Street, the insurance industry, global warming ... whatever ... it's a figure of speech describing their unabashed loyalty and willingness to do anything for their masters.

Uh-huh. Now, what history supports that? Your obsessions don't count.

What history? Are you serious? You want me to document a common figure of speech?

lol ... do you own homework if you want to learn the origins of that.

I'll start over. Useful idiots has a historical and specific political meaning with history and historical figures behind it. Sorry, Art, but in the grand scheme, you aren't quite historical nor do your words and rhetoric have an impact on the world.

 

[Article 15]

Uh-huh. Now, what history supports that? Your obsessions don't count.

What history? Are you serious? You want me to document a common figure of speech?

lol ... do you own homework if you want to learn the origins of that.

I'll start over. Useful idiots has a historical and specific political meaning with history and historical figures behind it. Sorry, Art, but in the grand scheme, you aren't quite historical nor do your words and rhetoric have an impact on the world.

And calling someone a "whore" for something has a specific meaning too ... I just gave it to you. Sorry, Si, but it's part of the english language.

 

[Si modo]

What history? Are you serious? You want me to document a common figure of speech?

lol ... do you own homework if you want to learn the origins of that.

I'll start over. Useful idiots has a historical and specific political meaning with history and historical figures behind it. Sorry, Art, but in the grand scheme, you aren't quite historical nor do your words and rhetoric have an impact on the world.

And calling someone a "whore" for something has a specific meaning too ... I just gave it to you. Sorry, Si, but it's part of the english language.

When I mention oranges I see no relevance of apples.

 

[Article 15]

I'll start over. Useful idiots has a historical and specific political meaning with history and historical figures behind it. Sorry, Art, but in the grand scheme, you aren't quite historical nor do your words and rhetoric have an impact on the world.

And calling someone a "whore" for something has a specific meaning too ... I just gave it to you. Sorry, Si, but it's part of the english language.

When I mention oranges I see no relevance of apples.

Both have specific meanings and both are insults.

 

[Si modo]

And calling someone a "whore" for something has a specific meaning too ... I just gave it to you. Sorry, Si, but it's part of the english language.

When I mention oranges I see no relevance of apples.

Both have specific meanings and both are insults.

I understand why you keep ignoring my repeated use of historic. It may make you feel better, but it does nothing for your argument. It's OK, useful idiots serve a purpose in attempts to muck up reality.

 

[midcan5]

It is rather funny and telling how often debate soon becomes a kind of school yard children's argument. No, you are!

Healthcare should be a universal right and one day will be one. It will take time, a time traveler who could go back to the 15th century would think this city politic was not a part of their past, but progress comes and change comes. Not always for the good as Reagan and Bush Jr's policies proved.

Read a bit of the history, when FDR took office it was much like today, in a sense it is today. The republicans failed as they did under W, but they managed the same agitprop against everything he did. Even the supreme court was a lost cause - as has been shown too often in the quest for human rights in America.

Stop whining Cons, soon another 'Bush' will arise and we will go backward once more. Humans learn slowly.

"Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself": FDR's First Inaugural Address

Read this for a bit of excellent narrative history. The Glory and the Dream - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Immanuel]

I wish I could agree with you, but I don't.

This bill is about control. The government now has control of 1/6th of the U.S. economy and also your health insurance.

Now maybe you like the idea of Bureaucrats dictating to you, but I do not.

I like the idea of 30 some odd million Americans who do not have health insurance (right now I am one of those until I get a job... if I can get one now) and I like the idea of eliminating the pre-existing condition clause as well as a few other things.

What I do not like is the uncertainty of this bill... the open ended items that may end up being "gotcha's".

I would have been okay with many of the "reforms" included in this bill if they were not done in one fell swoop... this bill scares me.

I am not even opposed to universal health care believe it or not. I grew up under a health care plan in California called Kaiser Permanente and I must say for my family that HMO plan was great. It is what I think of when I think of "universal health care" although I know true universal health care is no where near as good a Kaiser's plan was.

But, this plan has too many open ends for me. Like I said, legislate the pre-existing condition clauses and other things, but for this sweeping change to be put in the hands of people that I do not trust (Democrats and Republicans) is very disconcerting to me.

Immie

the govt has control over far more than 1/6th of our economy.
The military industrial complex is how much of our economy?
Medicare/Medicaid/CHIPS is how much of our economy?
SS is how much of our economy?
Govt employees are how much of our economy?

Your right perhaps I should have stated it like this.

They have just usurped another 1/6th of the U.S. economy.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

I'm sorry??? Was the public option passed?? Did I miss something??

Unless the public option passed, which it didn't your statements are simply false..

Even if, the government takes over our healthcare system completely.. It is better than what we have now.. I actually hope they do.. We will have more accountability..

At least with congress being the drivers seat.. I can boot them out of congress if I don't like the job they have been doing..

If republicans were doing such a bang up job governing and writing laws.. The dems wouldn't be in power now.. Our votes mean something..

When was the last time you got to vote on the CEO of an insurance company??

If the last few elections was more than just a total loss for the republican party.. It was also evidence that we the people still have a say in who occupies the whitehouse and the seats in congress..

That is a hell of a lot more than who is the CEO or members of the board of a big insurance company..

What you faiil to see is to what incentive does the insurance company have to do right by it's customers?? None.. It profits from killing us..

Consider that..

First off, you are wrong.

The insurance companies become puppets of the government tomorrow.

Congress is in no way accountable to us. At least with CEO's and management of health insurers we can go elsewhere or simply not buy at all. Tomorrow we will have no choice! No choice at all. If you even for a second think that you will not buy a government ordained insurance policy you will be fined.

As for the public option... it is not dead yet. Before Obama leaves office I suspect it will be the law of the land. This is NOT the final step. It was only the first baby steps.

We have absolutely zero say as to who sits in the seats of Congress. The Republican and Democrat Parties tell us who will sit there. They dictate to us not the other way around.

The incentive that the health insurance company has is profit. If they stop serving the public their profits disintegrate. Congress has no such incentive. If they stop serving us and we stop buying, they simply raise our taxes and force us to buy.

Immie

See.. This where you simply don't understand the healthcare issue or insurance issue.. Try to go to another provider now and see how far you get..

Oh, I understand the insurance issue fairly well.

I live here in Seattle.. We do not have Kiaser.. Your insurance is useless here because the hospitals in my area do not accept Kiaser... Get the issue now?? Sure.. I can phone A Kiaser office and sign up.. But for me, the nearest Kiaser Hospital is Portland Ore. So, for me to get care, I would have to go to Portland.. Some 6+ hours away..

It is you who do not understand this issue and that is obvious by this paragraph. You see with Kaiser, if I am in a location that they do not serve, I can go to any hospital I want and they cover the expenses as any other insurance company does. I could (I am no longer with Kaiser because I live in Florida) even go to a non-Kaiser hospital in California and Kaiser would cover the expenses.

You living in Seattle, there are insurance carriers that offer insurance to people in Washington. Unfortunately, the government has regulated which carriers that is and there are two or three available at a guess. Opening up the markets is one of the things that should have been addressed... I don't think it was in this bill, imagine that.

You can get any insurrance you want.. Unless the hospitals accept it, it is useless.. There is no law that say they must accept.. Which is why we needed changes to the anti-trust laws.. Something else the republicans were against.. Since those laws weren't allowed to be changed.. The insurance companies got to keep their little geographic monopolies all over the country..

Again, you prove you do not understand insurance. Insurance companies negotiate with medical providers and encourage their customers to use their doctors because those doctors have agreed to certain rates. If you go to a doctor outside of the insurance companies "system", then you have to pay the fees and the insurance company reimburses you. It is not that you can't use the medical provider.

If Doctor Smith tells you he does not accept "Kaiser" insurance, it does not mean that he can't and won't treat you. It means he doesn't bill Kaiser for you and probably won't accept their "negotiated rates". So, in order to use Dr. Smith while a member of Kaiser, you have to agree to pay Dr. Smith and then get your reimbursement from Kaiser on your own.

It is much easier for you to go to a Kaiser Doctor rather than go to a doctor who is not in the system, but you can still do so.

So.. As you can see.. We have no choices... Is group health where you are?? You should look into it.. Great rates and great plans.. Except you will have to move to Seattle to use it.. Well.. I guess you really could travel if you so wanted to..

This issue is a double edged sword.. I am a heart patient.. I have had my aortic valve replaced with a mechanical one.. Last year the wife and I were going to go to Yellow stone for a vacation.. Well.. I didn't do the thin air of that altitude to well.. I wound up in the ER of Cody Wyoming.. Who then flew me to Billings MT to see a cardiologist.. Who then sent my home to see my personal docs.. The Hospital in Cody didn't have a contract with my insurance or whatever, but they refused to bill my insurance.. Eventually sent me to collections.. When I said I wouldn't pay, they took me to court.. Well.. The judge in Helena Wyoming ruled that my obligation to pay the debt ended when I provided my insurance information.. Since the hospital would not bill my insurance, it was the hospitals obligation to pay it.. Now we all know who actually paid it.. The tax payers of Cody and or Wyoming.. But this is another example of how our current system sucks..

I don't know the specifics of your case, but the Doctor is under no obligation to bill your insurance company for you. Since you were out of the area of the service for your insurance carrier, you were the one that was responsible to the doctor to arrange payments. Your insurance company was responsible to you under contract to pay for your medical expenses.

I am sure if you wanted to take the time to read your policy you would see that somewhere in the fine print.

BTW: I hope all went well with the entire ordeal and that you are either well on the road to recovery or have already recovered.

No I am sure my case isn't the only one.. I am also sure that there are a number families out there that have a medical debt that they really don't have to pay.. I was never told my insurance wasn't accepted at the Cody hospital until I was called by a collection agency about the $23,000 dollar debt.. Expensive trip to an ER that can't handle much more than a bandaid.. This was a 9 bed hospital.. Cody isn't very big.. They had to send my chest X-ray and CT scan to a company in Australia to read it!?!?!? What is really scary was.. I know my heart beat was irratic.. The doc there wanted to use the paddles.. Ok.. I am awake and consience, I am feeling nothing, just difficulty breating.. And this moron wants to use the paddles.. Well.. I had to doctor myself and ask for some Metoprolol and Lasics.. The first one regulates my heart rythm and the second one helps get rid of excess water.. Well.. The doctor listened and got me both.. My heart stabalized and my breathing eased.. So what was the bill for?? They really did nothing at all..

However, that has nothing to do with insurance. The apparent incompetency of a doctor in Cody is not the fault of the insurance company.

I think you give the dems more power than they have..

I don't reserve that "power" to the Dems. It is Congress in general. Every single one of them. Not one of them can be trusted.

Given the behavior of the republicans.. Don't thnik the dems if they had the power would kick every republican member out of congress they would?? I am sorry you have such little faith in our government.. The passage of healthcare reform should have renewed that faith.. It was a bill for we the people and not the insurance companies.

I'm not sure what that first sentence/question means. It doesn't really make sense, sorry.

No, it was a bill for the Government of this country. It was a bill for control of we the people. I, too, am sorry I have lost faith in bureaucrats in Washington. Believe me, I would like nothing more than to have that blind faith in our political system that I did when I was a kid back.

Your absolutley right the incentive insurance companies have is profit.. They don't profit by paying medical bills.. They profit by not paying them and finding every loophole they can not to pay them.. They certainly didn't create the poilicy against pre-existing conditions because it was good for our customers.. They did it to lessen their chances of paying out.. There by increasing their profit..

True, they don't profit by paying medical bills, but also they don't profit by not paying medical bills. They are under contract to pay those bills. Within reason they have to pay those bills. Which is why they spell out what they will pay and how much they will pay for it. If they don't pay those bills customers go elsewhere and they loose market share and profits.

They will do everything in their power to limit the expenses they have as they should. If you were a business man you would understand that. However, they pay the expenses that they are contractually obligated to pay.

The government is in a unique situation. They are not contractually obligated to do a damned thing. They tell you what they will do and if you don't like it... well, tough shit. You have no where else to go. Tough shit.

You see in a nut shell.. Their profit is the death of americans.. They profit from killing us..

First off, I see your point here when you get old and the potential of further income becomes small. Sure if you are 97 years old and need a heart transplant the insurance company is going to balk. After all, the prospect of you remaining a customer much longer is not all that great even if the procedure is successful.

Do not think the government will Look at your situation any differently. The prospect of your continuing to pay taxes is highly unlikely... oh, and if you have a sizable estate...!!! Well, they get 55% of it in estate taxes... (not in 2010, but it starts back up in 2011) Well, you get the drift.

Who profits from our deaths?

Immie

 

[editec]

After watching the passage on television and watching the reaction on the news.. I am reminded that we as a nation still has a long way to go.. Even reading some of the responses here it is clear that some people are just not together in this nation..

Ok? So what did healthcare reform get us?? Well.. There we be no more denials based on pre-existing conditions.. Policies can't be cancelled when we get sick.. Seniors well get help with perscription drugs.. The doughnut hole in medicare will be closed.. Small business will get tax credits for covering their employees.. Not to mention many many more things for the people of this nation..

I am not going to claim that it is perfect.. We are human after all... We couldn't get writing the bible right either.. The fact that it isn't perfect isn't a reason not to vote for it.. In fact, just forcing insurance companies to stop denying people for pre-existing conditions is a big step.. So?? Anyone care to guess how many people have DIED because they have a pre-existing condition?? I learned something new lastnight.. Did yo know that being a woman is a pre-existing condition?? Or better yet, being pregnant?? Most insurance companies do not cover a c-section as a pregnancy is considered a pre-existing condition.. I didn't know that.. So How much is a life worth? You all are worried about money.. How much is a life worth? How much is own life worth? How much is 45,000 lives worth each year?

This bill isn't about money or the economy.. It is about LIFE and DEATH.. Republicans can't seem to understand that.. We can work out the financial bugs later.. But first lets save some lives?? How can any you of be against that?? Most americans don't care how it is passed or how it all works.. They just want to know it does..

So here we are.. It passed and republicans are in arms promising to repeal the bill and filing law suits.. So?? What is it about death that fascinates you?? Members of congress have had racial slurs yelled them.. Homophobic slurs yelled at them.. Even spat on.. Is that your idea of protest?? Even in the house chamber, a republican yelled 'Baby Kiler'.. Is that protest?? That is not protest.. That is not representing the people that voted for you.. That is not speaking for america.. You people need to realize that..

So I will end my little note with this..

This bill is not about money or even healthcare.. It is about saving the lives of fellow americans from death.. That is the issue in it's simplest form..

Our founding fathers identified this issue as a right!!

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Life!! The right to live.. That is what healthcare is about.. That is what our founding fathers knew.. They wrote on it.. They signed it.. Why aren't you behind it and supporting it??

I share your desire for universal HC.

Sadly, I do not have the confidence in this bill that you do.

I think this is actually going to exacerbate the problem of rising HC costs.

I see nothing in it that will keep the costs down.

I see a LOT in it that will bring the costs of HC up.

Five years from now we're going to revisit this problem because its going to get worse

I HOPE I'm COMPLETELY WRONG.

I usually am right about this sort of thing.

There is NO systemic wording in this bill to keep insurance premuims down.

When insrance compaqnies want to raise their premiums, they'll have to ask congress.

Congress, you know?...the same people they've been giving millions of dollars to as campaign contributions?

 

[Immanuel]

After watching the passage on television and watching the reaction on the news.. I am reminded that we as a nation still has a long way to go.. Even reading some of the responses here it is clear that some people are just not together in this nation..

Ok? So what did healthcare reform get us?? Well.. There we be no more denials based on pre-existing conditions.. Policies can't be cancelled when we get sick.. Seniors well get help with perscription drugs.. The doughnut hole in medicare will be closed.. Small business will get tax credits for covering their employees.. Not to mention many many more things for the people of this nation..

I am not going to claim that it is perfect.. We are human after all... We couldn't get writing the bible right either.. The fact that it isn't perfect isn't a reason not to vote for it.. In fact, just forcing insurance companies to stop denying people for pre-existing conditions is a big step.. So?? Anyone care to guess how many people have DIED because they have a pre-existing condition?? I learned something new lastnight.. Did yo know that being a woman is a pre-existing condition?? Or better yet, being pregnant?? Most insurance companies do not cover a c-section as a pregnancy is considered a pre-existing condition.. I didn't know that.. So How much is a life worth? You all are worried about money.. How much is a life worth? How much is own life worth? How much is 45,000 lives worth each year?

This bill isn't about money or the economy.. It is about LIFE and DEATH.. Republicans can't seem to understand that.. We can work out the financial bugs later.. But first lets save some lives?? How can any you of be against that?? Most americans don't care how it is passed or how it all works.. They just want to know it does..

So here we are.. It passed and republicans are in arms promising to repeal the bill and filing law suits.. So?? What is it about death that fascinates you?? Members of congress have had racial slurs yelled them.. Homophobic slurs yelled at them.. Even spat on.. Is that your idea of protest?? Even in the house chamber, a republican yelled 'Baby Kiler'.. Is that protest?? That is not protest.. That is not representing the people that voted for you.. That is not speaking for america.. You people need to realize that..

So I will end my little note with this..

This bill is not about money or even healthcare.. It is about saving the lives of fellow americans from death.. That is the issue in it's simplest form..

Our founding fathers identified this issue as a right!!

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Life!! The right to live.. That is what healthcare is about.. That is what our founding fathers knew.. They wrote on it.. They signed it.. Why aren't you behind it and supporting it??

I share your desire for universal HC.

Sadly, I do not have the confidence in this bill that you do.

I think this is actually going to exacerbate the problem of rising HC costs.

I see nothing in it that will keep the costs down.

I see a LOT in it that will bring the costs of HC up.

Five years from now we're going to revisit this problem because its going to get worse

I HOPE I'm COMPLETELY WRONG.

I usually am right about this sort of thing.

There is NO systemic wording in this bill to keep insurance premuims down.

When insrance compaqnies want to raise their premiums, they'll have to ask congress.

Congress, you know?...the same people they've been giving millions of dollars to as campaign contributions?

I could live with Universal Health Care. Unfortunately, I do not know how that can be accomplished and still limiting governmental control.

Our government is too big and too broke to add more to the mess.

We just added 157 new bureaucracies with one stroke of the pen? Tell me that is not so!!

Immie

 

[editec]

After watching the passage on television and watching the reaction on the news.. I am reminded that we as a nation still has a long way to go.. Even reading some of the responses here it is clear that some people are just not together in this nation..

Ok? So what did healthcare reform get us?? Well.. There we be no more denials based on pre-existing conditions.. Policies can't be cancelled when we get sick.. Seniors well get help with perscription drugs.. The doughnut hole in medicare will be closed.. Small business will get tax credits for covering their employees.. Not to mention many many more things for the people of this nation..

I am not going to claim that it is perfect.. We are human after all... We couldn't get writing the bible right either.. The fact that it isn't perfect isn't a reason not to vote for it.. In fact, just forcing insurance companies to stop denying people for pre-existing conditions is a big step.. So?? Anyone care to guess how many people have DIED because they have a pre-existing condition?? I learned something new lastnight.. Did yo know that being a woman is a pre-existing condition?? Or better yet, being pregnant?? Most insurance companies do not cover a c-section as a pregnancy is considered a pre-existing condition.. I didn't know that.. So How much is a life worth? You all are worried about money.. How much is a life worth? How much is own life worth? How much is 45,000 lives worth each year?

This bill isn't about money or the economy.. It is about LIFE and DEATH.. Republicans can't seem to understand that.. We can work out the financial bugs later.. But first lets save some lives?? How can any you of be against that?? Most americans don't care how it is passed or how it all works.. They just want to know it does..

So here we are.. It passed and republicans are in arms promising to repeal the bill and filing law suits.. So?? What is it about death that fascinates you?? Members of congress have had racial slurs yelled them.. Homophobic slurs yelled at them.. Even spat on.. Is that your idea of protest?? Even in the house chamber, a republican yelled 'Baby Kiler'.. Is that protest?? That is not protest.. That is not representing the people that voted for you.. That is not speaking for america.. You people need to realize that..

So I will end my little note with this..

This bill is not about money or even healthcare.. It is about saving the lives of fellow americans from death.. That is the issue in it's simplest form..

Our founding fathers identified this issue as a right!!

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Life!! The right to live.. That is what healthcare is about.. That is what our founding fathers knew.. They wrote on it.. They signed it.. Why aren't you behind it and supporting it??

I share your desire for universal HC.

Sadly, I do not have the confidence in this bill that you do.

I think this is actually going to exacerbate the problem of rising HC costs.

I see nothing in it that will keep the costs down.

I see a LOT in it that will bring the costs of HC up.

Five years from now we're going to revisit this problem because its going to get worse

I HOPE I'm COMPLETELY WRONG.

I usually am right about this sort of thing.

There is NO systemic wording in this bill to keep insurance premuims down.

When insrance compaqnies want to raise their premiums, they'll have to ask congress.

Congress, you know?...the same people they've been giving millions of dollars to as campaign contributions?

I could live with Universal Health Care. Unfortunately, I do not know how that can be accomplished and still limiting governmental control.

Our government is too big and too broke to add more to the mess.

We just added 157 new bureaucracies with one stroke of the pen? Tell me that is not so!!

Immie

I doubt universal HC can happen except if we completely socialize the system.

And we all know the problems with socialized systems, right?

Anyway we approach this problem the cost of HC is going up.

Right now this new plan is going to benefit the HC insurance companies... a lot, I suspect.

It will help those of us who didn't have HC, of course.

But the rest of us ARE going to pay, and pay big time, for that largess.

 

[Gunny]

After watching the passage on television and watching the reaction on the news.. I am reminded that we as a nation still has a long way to go.. Even reading some of the responses here it is clear that some people are just not together in this nation..

Ok? So what did healthcare reform get us?? Well.. There we be no more denials based on pre-existing conditions.. Policies can't be cancelled when we get sick.. Seniors well get help with perscription drugs.. The doughnut hole in medicare will be closed.. Small business will get tax credits for covering their employees.. Not to mention many many more things for the people of this nation..

I am not going to claim that it is perfect.. We are human after all... We couldn't get writing the bible right either.. The fact that it isn't perfect isn't a reason not to vote for it.. In fact, just forcing insurance companies to stop denying people for pre-existing conditions is a big step.. So?? Anyone care to guess how many people have DIED because they have a pre-existing condition?? I learned something new lastnight.. Did yo know that being a woman is a pre-existing condition?? Or better yet, being pregnant?? Most insurance companies do not cover a c-section as a pregnancy is considered a pre-existing condition.. I didn't know that.. So How much is a life worth? You all are worried about money.. How much is a life worth? How much is own life worth? How much is 45,000 lives worth each year?

This bill isn't about money or the economy.. It is about LIFE and DEATH.. Republicans can't seem to understand that.. We can work out the financial bugs later.. But first lets save some lives?? How can any you of be against that?? Most americans don't care how it is passed or how it all works.. They just want to know it does..

So here we are.. It passed and republicans are in arms promising to repeal the bill and filing law suits.. So?? What is it about death that fascinates you?? Members of congress have had racial slurs yelled them.. Homophobic slurs yelled at them.. Even spat on.. Is that your idea of protest?? Even in the house chamber, a republican yelled 'Baby Kiler'.. Is that protest?? That is not protest.. That is not representing the people that voted for you.. That is not speaking for america.. You people need to realize that..

So I will end my little note with this..

This bill is not about money or even healthcare.. It is about saving the lives of fellow americans from death.. That is the issue in it's simplest form..

Our founding fathers identified this issue as a right!!

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Life!! The right to live.. That is what healthcare is about.. That is what our founding fathers knew.. They wrote on it.. They signed it.. Why aren't you behind it and supporting it??

Since when was having the Federal government take away individual liberty a "win"?

The people lost. The only "winners" were you lazy fucks that want everything handed to you on a silver platter.

 

[DiamondDave]

It is rather funny and telling how often debate soon becomes a kind of school yard children's argument. No, you are!

Healthcare should be a universal right and one day will be one. It will take time, a time traveler who could go back to the 15th century would think this city politic was not a part of their past, but progress comes and change comes. Not always for the good as Reagan and Bush Jr's policies proved.

Read a bit of the history, when FDR took office it was much like today, in a sense it is today. The republicans failed as they did under W, but they managed the same agitprop against everything he did. Even the supreme court was a lost cause - as has been shown too often in the quest for human rights in America.

Stop whining Cons, soon another 'Bush' will arise and we will go backward once more. Humans learn slowly.

"Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself": FDR's First Inaugural Address

Read this for a bit of excellent narrative history. The Glory and the Dream - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BULL PRUNES!!!!!!!

The right that should be had is your FREEDOM to pursue whatever health care you wish and the freedom for you to provide in any legal means that you wish to pay for it... it is a PERSONAL want and need... you are not owed shit at the expense of another without compensation

Goddamn asswipe entitlement junkie