Healthcare winners and losers?

[boedicca]

That is until covering pre-existing conditions, as required by the new laws, makes the insurance companies fail just like forcing banks to give loans to high risk individuals did to the banking industry. Then the government can "bail them out" and take over health insurance leading to the progressive "dream" of universal single payer health care.

Right problem - wrong answer.

The government will mandate reduced benefits over time as supply is outstripped by demand. Expensive procedures will be mysteriously allocated by the 100+ new bureaucracies to ensure that preference goes to the politically well-connected. Those who are not, will experience the months and years long waiting lists that every other nationalized health care system features. Many will die waiting (which is the point - getting rid of people once they are no longer productive taxpayers).

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

That is until covering pre-existing conditions, as required by the new laws, makes the insurance companies fail

How so?

There's nothing in the bill that regulates how much they can CHARGE for pre-existing conditions, it only requires them to offer it.

Are you sure there isn't anything in the 2300 pages, minus the upcoming additions that Obama announced the senate would be making shortly?

If that is the case then the government will probably make a new regulation forcing the insurance companies to provide those policies at an equal rate to all other policies so they are non-dicriminatory. This will either make my private insurance cost skyrocket or force the ins companies, who make about 3% profit, out of business.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

That is until covering pre-existing conditions, as required by the new laws, makes the insurance companies fail just like forcing banks to give loans to high risk individuals did to the banking industry. Then the government can "bail them out" and take over health insurance leading to the progressive "dream" of universal single payer health care.

Right problem - wrong answer.

The government will mandate reduced benefits over time as supply is outstripped by demand. Expensive procedures will be mysteriously allocated by the 100+ new bureaucracies to ensure that preference goes to the politically well-connected. Those who are not, will experience the months and years long waiting lists that every other nationalized health care system features. Many will die waiting (which is the point - getting rid of people once they are no longer productive taxpayers).

if we follow the european, canadian, and cuban models you are correct.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

That is until covering pre-existing conditions, as required by the new laws, makes the insurance companies fail

How so?

There's nothing in the bill that regulates how much they can CHARGE for pre-existing conditions, it only requires them to offer it.

Are you sure there isn't anything in the 2300 pages, minus the upcoming additions that Obama announced the senate would be making shortly?

If that is the case then the government will probably make a new regulation forcing the insurance companies to provide those policies at an equal rate to all other policies so they are non-dicriminatory. This will either make my private insurance cost skyrocket or force the ins companies, who make about 3% profit, out of business.

There's NO rate controls anywhere in any of the bills.

Again, as I said: Were I a friend of big insurance, I would have been the one who wrote this bill.

 

[Gunny]

Obviously with the passage of the healtchare bill the biggest winners are deadbeats, the indigent and illegal aliens.

But apart from that, who are the biggest beneficiaries in this giant leap toward socialism and who suffers the greatest cost?

The bureaucracy the government will build around it.

Omg, you read my mind.

I was thinking about how this is going to affect ME, in my job. The thing I'm most dreading is the fact that my health care insurance will be taxed, so I'll have to shell out an extra $200 or more a month from my already MEASLY paycheck.

Also, we're in a salary freeze. I didn't get a raise last year, I won't get one this year. Management have taken even bigger hits....they have forced, non-paid furlough days which effectively reduce their income. That particular bomb missed me....my salary is so low I only have to take 2 forced furlough days in the next year or so, and it ends up not costing me anything.

So I'm thinking crap, I don't think I can get by on $200 a month less..though I know all this is theoretical and not likely (I hope????) to take effect immediately. And I think, what is a growth industry now?

THE IRS. The IRS is a HUGE growth industry. I'm going to fucking apply now. By the time all this shit hits I'll be 2 or 3 steps up with a comfortable retirement account and a hike in pay.

And hopefully I won't get audited if I work in the IRS. Unlike all you unlucky fucktards. You're going to get the shit audited out of you. And the IRS will determine HOW MUCH COVERAGE YOU NEED TO HAVE BEFORE THEY CAN DING YOU. If they don't like you're coverage, guess what? No tax return!

Tax returns are a thing of the past, methinks. They were nice while they lasted.

Yeah, that's what the elitists don't get because they don't care. THEY are taken care of so fuck us. If you are just making it, you just went into the red. People are defaulting right and left and the Dems with their "Big Brother" mentality just fucked us with no lube.

Fuck the IRS. A government-sponsored terrorist organization.

 

[Truthmatters]

That is until covering pre-existing conditions, as required by the new laws, makes the insurance companies fail just like forcing banks to give loans to high risk individuals did to the banking industry. Then the government can "bail them out" and take over health insurance leading to the progressive "dream" of universal single payer health care.

Right problem - wrong answer.

The government will mandate reduced benefits over time as supply is outstripped by demand. Expensive procedures will be mysteriously allocated by the 100+ new bureaucracies to ensure that preference goes to the politically well-connected. Those who are not, will experience the months and years long waiting lists that every other nationalized health care system features. Many will die waiting (which is the point - getting rid of people once they are no longer productive taxpayers).

That is one really crazy assed opinion of what is going to happen.

 

[boedicca]

if we follow the european, canadian, and cuban models you are correct.

I harbor no illusion that we won't. They have been held up as the Ideals all throughout this abysmal process. One of their main propagandists even made a movie about the Superior Cuban model.

 

[Gunny]

For those looking for work:

IRS Careers

I doubt they make soap good enough to clean the slime off at the end of the day. I'd rather just shoot people. At least it's up front and honest.

 

[Gunny]

That is until covering pre-existing conditions, as required by the new laws, makes the insurance companies fail

How so?

There's nothing in the bill that regulates how much they can CHARGE for pre-existing conditions, it only requires them to offer it.

That's because Obama hasn't taken them over. Yet.

 

[boedicca]

That is until covering pre-existing conditions, as required by the new laws, makes the insurance companies fail just like forcing banks to give loans to high risk individuals did to the banking industry. Then the government can "bail them out" and take over health insurance leading to the progressive "dream" of universal single payer health care.

Right problem - wrong answer.

The government will mandate reduced benefits over time as supply is outstripped by demand. Expensive procedures will be mysteriously allocated by the 100+ new bureaucracies to ensure that preference goes to the politically well-connected. Those who are not, will experience the months and years long waiting lists that every other nationalized health care system features. Many will die waiting (which is the point - getting rid of people once they are no longer productive taxpayers).

That is one really crazy assed opinion of what is going to happen.

Thank you very much for the confirmation of the correctness of my assessment.

If you think it's crazy assed, it must be the epitome of rational thinking.

 

[Truthmatters]

How so?

There's nothing in the bill that regulates how much they can CHARGE for pre-existing conditions, it only requires them to offer it.

Are you sure there isn't anything in the 2300 pages, minus the upcoming additions that Obama announced the senate would be making shortly?

If that is the case then the government will probably make a new regulation forcing the insurance companies to provide those policies at an equal rate to all other policies so they are non-dicriminatory. This will either make my private insurance cost skyrocket or force the ins companies, who make about 3% profit, out of business.

There's NO rate controls anywhere in any of the bills.

Again, as I said: Were I a friend of big insurance, I would have been the one who wrote this bill.

I believe they do have to spread the cost out to all insurees.

From what I understand they can not penalize individuals by jacking up their individual accounts.


The insurace cos can still make a profit and give the service. They have in the past taken a smaller profit margin and still survived and prospered.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

That is until covering pre-existing conditions, as required by the new laws, makes the insurance companies fail

How so?

There's nothing in the bill that regulates how much they can CHARGE for pre-existing conditions, it only requires them to offer it.

That's because Obama hasn't taken them over. Yet.

They won't need any bailouts Chief. They just got it!

 

[Gunny]

Prove what you claim.

It's right there in the Bill truthmatters...now why don't you sit back, clear your schedule on the Cartoon Network for the next week and read the Bill....then, as Obama likes to say...

PROVE its in the Bill.

You seem to have read it and know all about where it is so go get the proof.

There's nothing to prove, stupid. Borrow a brain cell from that dog in your avatar, huh? The obvious ALWAYS escapes you. You're a pathetic moron with internet access. I used to think you were a 6 years old pretending to be an adult until it finally dawned on me you're just a retarded idiot that can't read English.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Are you sure there isn't anything in the 2300 pages, minus the upcoming additions that Obama announced the senate would be making shortly?

If that is the case then the government will probably make a new regulation forcing the insurance companies to provide those policies at an equal rate to all other policies so they are non-dicriminatory. This will either make my private insurance cost skyrocket or force the ins companies, who make about 3% profit, out of business.

There's NO rate controls anywhere in any of the bills.

Again, as I said: Were I a friend of big insurance, I would have been the one who wrote this bill.

I believe they do have to spread the cost out to all insurees.

You believe wrong. Read the fucking bill, idiot.

And a 4% profit margin is too high for you? Well, get ready for the 10-20% they're going to be making, under this bill.

 

[Valerie]

>

WINNERS

BRAND-NAME DRUGMAKERS

* The pharmaceutical industry keeps its $80 billion agreement to provide savings and rebates. Its fees, to be divided among companies such as Pfizer and Merck & Co, would be delayed from 2010 to 2011, increasing from the initial $2.3 billion a year to $2.7 billion.

* Overall, wider insurance coverage could help offset the costs by providing more potential customers.

* Drugmakers warded off deeper price cuts in the Medicare program for the elderly. The House had sought to fully close the so-called "doughnut hole" where coverage drops temporarily after reaching a certain limit, but the bill maintains the industry's 50-percent discount. The government will pay for another 25-percent discount.

* Lawmakers rejected Obama's plan to end lucrative "pay-for-delay" settlements with brand-name drugmakers, a win for both generic and brand-name companies.

* The bill also discards an earlier provision that would have extended a hospital drug discount program.

BRAND BIOLOGIC DRUGMAKERS

* While the bill sets up a regulatory path for generic versions of expensive biologic drugs, Amgen and Roche's Genentech unit and other biological drugmakers won a 12-year period of exclusive sales for brand-name drugs before facing competition from generic rivals.

DEVICE MAKERS

* Fees for medical device makers, such as Boston Scientific and Medtronic, would be delayed to 2013 after initial bills called for 2010. The sector earlier won a reduced industry tax of $20 billion, down from $40 billion.

* Rather than an overall industry fee, the bill now contains a 2.9 percent sales tax. Certain consumer products, including eyeglasses and contact lenses, are exempt.

HOSPITALS

* Hospitals, which include companies such as Universal Health Services and Tenet Healthcare, say they kept a $155 billion, 10-year deal to accept lower government payments from Medicare and Medicaid in exchange for an expected boost in insured customers.

* A provision that could have helped certain rural and children's hospitals with an expanded drug discount program was dropped.

PHARMACY BENEFIT MANAGERS

* Analysts say increased Medicare drug coverage could boost pharmacy benefit managers (PBM) that administer prescription drug benefits as companies, such as Express Scripts and Medco Health Solutions, could see increased volumes.

* PBMs still face more disclosures but not new taxes. Companies must give the Department of Health and Human Services information about rebates from drugmakers for certain drugs.



LOSERS

HEALTH INSURERS

* While health insurers overall still face tighter regulation, companies such as Aetna Inc, Cigna Corp, UnitedHealth Group Inc and WellPoint Inc saw their $67 billion, 10-year tax delayed until 2014.

* Private Medicare plans called Medicare Advantage would see their payments frozen in 2011, then lowered in 2012. The plans, which can offer more benefits than traditional Medicare coverage, would also have to spend at least 85 cents out of every dollar on medical costs -- leaving 15 cents toward overhead and salaries, among other things.

* Consumer protection rules would change the way companies do business, banning denial of coverage for preexisting medical conditions and ending lifetime coverage limits. Some curbs would be expanded to all health insurance plans six months after the bill passes, while others take effect in 2014.

* The bill changes penalties for individuals who do not buy health insurance as mandated. The fine is lowered from $495 to $325 in 2015 and from $750 to $695 in 2016, but the alternative method of fining people using a percentage of income increased slightly to 2.5 percent by 2016.

* The bill does not include President Barack Obama's call for federal oversight of health insurance rates. It also expands tax credits and other financing to help more people afford insurance.

* Lawmakers have said roughly 30 million more Americans could have insurance with the reform.

GENERIC DRUGMAKERS

* The 12-year period of exclusive brand-name sales of biologic drugs surpasses the 5-7 years proponents had sought.

* Overall, companies that make generic versions of brand-name drugs see little direct help, although increasing insurance access may help more people buy medicine.

* But the bill includes a 75-percent discount on generic drugs in Medicare, the same as on brand-name drugs. Companies were concerned that closing the Medicare "doughnut hole" would turn people away from cheaper, generic medicines.

TANNING BED MAKERS

* The bill keeps a 10-percent tax on consumers who use indoor tanning salons, seeking to raise $2.7 billion by 2019 while discouraging a practice that can cause skin cancer.

Factbox: Winners, losers in House healthcare bill | Reuters

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Prove what you claim.

It's right there in the Bill truthmatters...now why don't you sit back, clear your schedule on the Cartoon Network for the next week and read the Bill....then, as Obama likes to say...

PROVE its in the Bill.

You seem to have read it and know all about where it is so go get the proof.

Did you read the article from MSNBC? I would suggest you do as it provides a tidy little synopsis on how you get screwed until 2014 waiting for any benefits from this Bill....but if you still refuse to admit the myriad of flaws in this Bill which still leaves 11 MILLION AMERICANS WITH NO HEALTH INSURANCE then go right ahead....you are the classic example of an ostrich.....party before country.

 

[Ravi]

Biggest losers?

It's a ripple effect that will soon lead to the destruction of the universe.

First, we apparently lost one of our posters, ihopehefails, who has killed himself in protest.

Second, babies will die. "I did believe, and still believe, that that Senate bill is a baby-killing bill." Rep. Randy Neugebauer

Third, the nation will die. "President Obama has betrayed his oath to the nation" Mitten Romney

Fourth the earth implodes. "It's Armageddon." John Boehner

Finally, Jesus smites the universe because we all know that somewhere, somehow, a gay person will receive medical care because of this EVIL bill.

 

[boedicca]

And a 4% profit margin is too high for you? Well, get ready for the 10-20% they're going to be making, under this bill.

BINGO!

As insurance companies are turned into Utilities, the laws that cover the government guaranteeing a return on capital via rate-setting will apply.

We are going to pay more for far less coverage.

 

[Gunny]

That is until covering pre-existing conditions, as required by the new laws, makes the insurance companies fail just like forcing banks to give loans to high risk individuals did to the banking industry. Then the government can "bail them out" and take over health insurance leading to the progressive "dream" of universal single payer health care.

Right problem - wrong answer.

The government will mandate reduced benefits over time as supply is outstripped by demand. Expensive procedures will be mysteriously allocated by the 100+ new bureaucracies to ensure that preference goes to the politically well-connected. Those who are not, will experience the months and years long waiting lists that every other nationalized health care system features. Many will die waiting (which is the point - getting rid of people once they are no longer productive taxpayers).

That is one really crazy assed opinion of what is going to happen.

The only thing crazy in this thread is YOU. Use your medical shit that I am paying for and seek some psychiatric help, huh?

You DO realize the very people you defend would euthanize your dumb ass, right?

 

[Truthmatters]

Right problem - wrong answer.

The government will mandate reduced benefits over time as supply is outstripped by demand. Expensive procedures will be mysteriously allocated by the 100+ new bureaucracies to ensure that preference goes to the politically well-connected. Those who are not, will experience the months and years long waiting lists that every other nationalized health care system features. Many will die waiting (which is the point - getting rid of people once they are no longer productive taxpayers).

That is one really crazy assed opinion of what is going to happen.

Thank you very much for the confirmation of the correctness of my assessment.

If you think it's crazy assed, it must be the epitome of rational thinking.

So you think the democratic partys aims are to kill people?

That is your assessment?

People not having insurance and dying off for lack of care is happening right now, If this was the aim of the democrats then why bother to change how they die?

You see your crazy assed assessment just infered that the Republicans (who have fought every attempt to cover people for decades) are for the way they die now instead right?


Your false train of logic in your assessment is obvious to anyone but you I guess.