Healthcare vs. Free Market from a Doc

[Bern80]

Sparky gets it.

As a doctor, I have every financial incentive to treat chronic medical conditions rather than heal them completely. Thus, patients are driven towards chronic care rather than a path towards full recovery. One example is type 2 diabetes. This is directly related to obesity, and starting with high body weight, but also disappearing when patients return to a normal body weight.

The fix is to send all type 2 diabetics onto "The Biggest Loser." The chronic treatment is to give them insulin, several times a day, 25 bucks a shot, 365 days a year, and 10 years later, the cost is $91,250. It might cost 5-10k to send someone to bootcamp and lose the weight, but that's like a 1/10 of the cost. Free market should push towards this treatment if free market works in healthcare.

Unfortunately, it doesn't.

Yes it does. You simply fail to get that your patients respond to the free market too. You may believe you have people over a barrell or something because you have a financial incentive to make sure they come back to you, but they have the incentive to find way to NOT have to come back to you. I ask again, would you continue to take your car back to the same mechanic that can't seem to get it fixed? He has the same financial incentive you do, but what customer is going to keep going back to someone that can't get the job done right?

It really is kind of scary that you apparently have the smarts to be doctor yet are a doctor who thinks they've stumbled onto some peculiarity of the health care system that makes it different from every other good or service. You haven't. You are a provider of a service like any other service out there. Your incentive to make money isn't different than any other provider of service. Any other provider of a service can also treat their customers unethically to keep them coming back. You as doctor, are not unique in that respect. The simple fact is the free market shows that lack ethics might make you some money in the short term, but those that are successfull financially and longevity wise are the ones that do what their customers want and make them happy.

 

[kwc57]

Sparky gets it.

As a doctor, I have every financial incentive to treat chronic medical conditions rather than heal them completely. Thus, patients are driven towards chronic care rather than a path towards full recovery. One example is type 2 diabetes. This is directly related to obesity, and starting with high body weight, but also disappearing when patients return to a normal body weight.

The fix is to send all type 2 diabetics onto "The Biggest Loser." The chronic treatment is to give them insulin, several times a day, 25 bucks a shot, 365 days a year, and 10 years later, the cost is $91,250. It might cost 5-10k to send someone to bootcamp and lose the weight, but that's like a 1/10 of the cost. Free market should push towards this treatment if free market works in healthcare.

Unfortunately, it doesn't.

I've been an insulin dependent diabetic since 1974. I'm not sure where you came up with shots being $25 per, but you are wayyyyy off base.

 

[lehr]

Ideally, the free market should drive society towards the best results since those will be more profitable. Well, healthcare works a little differently.

If I get people well faster, I make less money. If I don't get people well, I make less money. But, if I can get people slightly better at a steady rate, they will keep coming back and I will make more money.

This is how healthcare works right now. There is a financial dis-incentive to get people fixed. The incentive is for slow improvement, or maintenance while taking a drug. This path drives a society towards a state where they're a little sick, though not well, and in constant need of some care.

Is that what you see now in America?

hillary healthcare advisor vincente navarro is a leninist - lenin invented national healthcare just to register whole populations - communist obama care has nothing to do with health care

 

[lehr]

vincente navarro is the doctor who said little elian had to go back to communist cuba - these reds all work together

 

[Wiseacre]

Sparky gets it.

As a doctor, I have every financial incentive to treat chronic medical conditions rather than heal them completely. Thus, patients are driven towards chronic care rather than a path towards full recovery. One example is type 2 diabetes. This is directly related to obesity, and starting with high body weight, but also disappearing when patients return to a normal body weight.

The fix is to send all type 2 diabetics onto "The Biggest Loser." The chronic treatment is to give them insulin, several times a day, 25 bucks a shot, 365 days a year, and 10 years later, the cost is $91,250. It might cost 5-10k to send someone to bootcamp and lose the weight, but that's like a 1/10 of the cost. Free market should push towards this treatment if free market works in healthcare.

Unfortunately, it doesn't.

Coupla things. First, doesn't the Hippocratic mean a damn thing? Bet it does to some providers. Wouldn't a doctor who doesn't really treat the problem risk losing their medical license as well as face malpractice suits? That's gotta be at least some deterrent.

But here's my issue with ObamaCare or a single payer system regarding this issue. We can't be giving people free health care at no cost, there's gotta be some cost to the patient to incentivize their help in keeping costs down. Which happens if they have to pay part of the bill, no? They can be surfing the net for information regarding their problem, I know I would. And did when I had prostate cancer. Plus they should be able to check with the AMA or the applicable specialty assn to find out the facts and whether or not they're being treated correctly.

 

[Greenbeard]

But here's my issue with ObamaCare or a single payer system regarding this issue. We can't be giving people free health care at no cost, there's gotta be some cost to the patient to incentivize their help in keeping costs down. Which happens if they have to pay part of the bill, no?

What are you referring to here? Cost-sharing under the reform law stands to be fairly substantial.

 

[sparky]

Coupla things. First, doesn't the Hippocratic mean a damn thing? Bet it does to some providers. Wouldn't a doctor who doesn't really treat the problem risk losing their medical license as well as face malpractice suits? That's gotta be at least some deterrent.

Because often treating the sympthom, while ignoring the cause is routine, and universally accepted Wise. The antibiotic paradox is probably the most prevelant example of this. The old joke being amoxicillin illicts the presence of a child built on the back of the phenomenon...

But here's my issue with ObamaCare or a single payer system regarding this issue. We can't be giving people free health care at no cost, there's gotta be some cost to the patient to incentivize their help in keeping costs down. Which happens if they have to pay part of the bill, no? They can be surfing the net for information regarding their problem, I know I would. And did when I had prostate cancer. Plus they should be able to check with the AMA or the applicable specialty assn to find out the facts and whether or not they're being treated correctly.

Allow me to forward the best example i know of. It costs what? Upwards to $1K to enter the ER door now? This is greatly due to JACHO mandates, a legally hostile environ being catalyst for the lions share of it all

One gets to witness all manner of it's abuse, patients with no more than a splinter, small abrasion, very minor injuries the average mother of yesteryear would mitigate.

In fact, there are many who, having absolutely no physical complaint at all, wish to be taken to the ER 'for insurance reasons' , after a fender bender

Then there's the parade of sec 8's on medicare, who have no other quick resource , but to solicit the very same ER

Now you might ask, 'isn't this much unnecessary ado & expense'? in the aforementioned examples, but there is no legal mechanism to refuse service to them, and Big Insurance LOVES to see 'em coming, because they;re ALL in thier back pocket

see?

 

[peach174]

We do have Free Health Care Clinics here in America. We have several of these.

One of them is run by Dr. Alieta Eck and it's called Zarephath
Zarephath Health Center

The Doctor's volunteer their time and donations are given by patient and public donations.
It costs them 13 dollars per patient
A government run Free Clinic costs 140 dollars per patient.
Government does not want the private sector doing this. They do not want to give up their power.

 

[frazzledgear]

Ideally, the free market should drive society towards the best results since those will be more profitable. Well, healthcare works a little differently.

If I get people well faster, I make less money. If I don't get people well, I make less money. But, if I can get people slightly better at a steady rate, they will keep coming back and I will make more money.

This is how healthcare works right now. There is a financial dis-incentive to get people fixed. The incentive is for slow improvement, or maintenance while taking a drug. This path drives a society towards a state where they're a little sick, though not well, and in constant need of some care.

Is that what you see now in America?

That is THE hokiest, phoniest argument and only proved to me you are not only NOT a doctor at all, but not even in the health care field of any kind! You are just making the same old bullshit lies of the left pretending the real problem with our system is DOCTORS who are all evil people trying to keep everyone sick as long as possible! Is this a relatively new phenomenon do you think? Or have doctors always gone into medicine because they dreamed of keeping sick people sick for as long as they could -because they find that a real moneymaker for them! ROFLMAO! What an ignorant and totally lame piece of utter BULLSHIT!.

Why don't you go spend a week following a doctor around in the office and see whether your contention doctors try to keep sick people sick for as long as possible makes any sense to you after that, ok?

Because you didn't list even ONE real problem in our health care system. And hey, if they are keeping people sick as long as possible, it sure doesn't explain the fact that OUR morbidity and mortality rates for all sorts of diseases are still DROPPING -while they have done a 180 in the UK and after decades of steadily falling, are now RISING! So the facts don't support your STUPID COMMENTS. Doctors have NO need to keep sick people sick. They have no shortage of people waiting to see them. Their schedules are backed up for months now, jammed packed full of people waiting to see them.

But on any given day 85% of their patients aren't even sick and are there to make sure they aren't secretly sick and just didn't know it. Compared to just 25 years ago when it was the complete reverse and hearing someone tell a doctor they have no complaints and came in just to make sure they were fine was LAUGHABLE -and angered doctors who see it as a total waste of their highly specialized education and training. In reality fully 85% of the people who go to a doctor on ANY given day have NO need for the services of a doctor. A doctor is educated and trained to identify, diagnose and treat ILLNESS. So the vast majority of people clogging up the schedule are wasting a doctor's valuable time and expertise so they can FEEL reassured when a doctor tells them they are indeed just fine!

In the meantime the people who ARE sick get pushed back on the schedule too. It means they have to wait longer before they are seen. That means they are at real risk their mild condition will become more serious, their serious condition become critical and more resistant to treatment and critical conditions become life threatening.

If you go to emergency rooms you find the bulk of people being seen had to resort to using one to be seen because they couldn't get into a doctor before their condition worsened. It is no longer being used as an emergency room. Now what changed that would suddenly make HEALTHY people flood doctor's offices every day? Figure THAT one out and you are well on your way to identifying the REAL problems here.

Now to the most stupid part of your argument entirely. If you think doctors chose that career because they saw it as the best and fastest way to make big money, think again. In truth doctors graduate medical school more than $300,000 in debt and still face an additional average 6-10 years internship learning a specialty and even more if they sub-specialize. During which they get paid a pittance that still will not support a family while working them to the brink of exhaustion -in the belief doctors not used to dealing with a medical crisis while exhausted will then be at high risk of making the most grievous and life threatening errors in judgment -when tired, distracted or only got a couple of hours of sleep. By the time a doctor is in a job where they can start and support a family - -they are on average in their mid to late 30s. While others have had a 10 year or more head start on them. They have fewer working years even left after that point -during which they must earn enough to pay their malpractice insurance, support their family and pay back their huge student loans. Owning a private practice is increasingly out of the question since the financial burden for a doctor is insurmountable. The number of single practice clinics are becoming fast extinct and a thing of the past. Doctors are going to end up getting hired by corporations or jointly own a clinic with a bunch of doctors -in which case they will draw a SALARY no matter how many patients they see and no matter how much work is involved with treating them.

So if someone wants to get rich and that is what drives them to a medical career, they aren't going to see much financial reward for a long, long time and they will have fewer years left to do it. But let's get to your supposition that doctors prefer to sit on their hands and waste their time, education and training and most of their lives just sitting around and stringing out people's illnesses -deliberately keeping them sick for as long as they can. Even though they spend the bulk of their day seeing healthy people who don't need them at all -because third party payers told them they could go see the doctor for "free" X number of times a year -and they figured "might as well use and make sure I really am healthy and didn't need to see a doctor!" If YOU find satisfaction in doing a poor job and believe doing a poor job is a better money maker for you than doing a good job and getting referrals from happy, satisfied patients or customers -I suggest you seek help because you are seriously one fucked up human being!

Finally -the real killer to your STUPID argument and the ONE thing proving you have NOTHING to do with the health care field except try to whip up hatred and anger at the people who do work in it -is the fact the vast majority of illnesses are SELF LIMITING anyway. Meaning no matter what your doctor does or does not do -its going to go away all by itself anyway! Even if you never saw the doctor at all. Liberals like to pretend no one can even EXIST without seeing a doctor at least once a year and that we are ALL just HOVERING at the edge of DEATH at all times. But in reality the vast majority will never really need one for nearly all our lives and that is a fact. That doesn't mean you wouldn't WANT to see a doctor in that time -but let's get real about it. Even when seeing someone who is sick, the most a doctor will be able to do the VAST majority of time -is to offer you symptomatic relief until your body cures itself. That is because 98% of the diseases that affect the human body are self limiting conditions from which the vast majority will recover without any help from a doctor.

There actually is no such thing as being able to "string out" someone's illness and deliberately keep them sick for as long as possible -because you either aren't helping him at all in which case he will go somewhere else, or you have killed him -or what is the most likely of all - the person got better in spite of you. In which case none of them are coming back anyway and its not such a hot money making scheme after all when they never come back, is it?

If anything, the truly EASY money would be with seeing ONLY healthy people as much as possible -and do nothing all day long except shuffle them in and shuffle them out with a pat on the back, take the insurance money to tell them they are fine which they already knew - and no need to use one brain cell in thought. But doctors HATE it. They hate the entire system now and they are now some of the most dissatisfied in their career choices of all. Hmm -wonder if its a good thing to be seen by a doctor who hates their job. Doctors are increasingly dropping out, starting new careers, retiring early and leaving the frustration of the kind of system insurance companies and government are intent on creating -for someone else because it isn't a satisfying career and it isn't what they want to do with their lives either. They didn't decide to become doctors so they could spend the bulk of their time telling healthy people what they already knew when they came in.

In spite of liberals' belief that doctors are some kind of magical beings who can spot disease before you even feel sick, doctors cannot possibly spot illness before your own body tells you something is wrong - because it is the SYMPTOMS of illness that lets them (and you) know something is wrong in the first place! You won't feel symptoms until something goes out of whack first -which would show up in testing only then. Only when you have symptoms would a doctor even know where to start looking for the problem. That's how it works. Preventative health care is a CON JOB. And a CRUEL one at that. It provably does not only NOT work, it isn't cost effective either, wasting massive amounts of previous resources -yet not improving the outcome even on those extremely rare times an illness is picked up. What a colossal con job running that one on people -all for the specific purpose of changing our health care system from one that exists primarily to treat sick people and either return them to health or at least improve their quality of life -to one that exists primarily to reassure healthy people they are indeed healthy!

Obama openly said that is exactly what he wants to change our system to -one that exists primarily for the benefit of the healthy and NOT for the primary purpose of diagnosing and treating illness! In other words -Obama wants to change our system from one that helps people return to normal function as productive citizens to one that is superfluous and unnecessary intended to pretty much reassure the healthy they are still healthy. Wow -another example of just what truly deep thinkers and.......HUMANE the left is once again!

And now people are NOT going into medicine because it is not a rewarding career anymore. Or nursing for that matter. Enrollment in both medical and nursing schools going unfilled where schools once had their pick of the cream of the crop. Gee, if the cream of the crop are making different career choices -who is being accepted by these schools that have admitted to lowering their standards just to try and fill classes? Enrollment is steadily dropping because more and more people who would be drawn to it realize it is now an unfulfilling and even miserable career choice and reject it -and choose another career instead. It is no longer a career where a doctor will find fulfillment having actually helped improved someone's life because now they will spend the bulk of their day filled with one frustration after another, running from one person to the next telling them what they already knew -they don't need a doctor. If they wanted to spend their "careers" justifying a useless existence -they would have become a lawyer instead!

The left always insist the real enemy is fellow Americans and at every turn they will turn around and try to lay blame for the problems in our health care system on "evil" doctors they claim are just running RAMPANT in our health care system. Obama with his never ending list of fellow Americans he has waged war on -stood before an audience and LIED HIS ASS OFF claiming doctors are so evil they will even remove healthy organs just to make a few bucks more! Even though not one study has identified the intentional removal of healthy organs as a known phenomenon at all, much less one that ANY doctor has done, much less that it is actually a problem occurring in our health care system! WTF! It was the typical LYING ASS fear mongering of the left, their favorite hobby is trying to whip up fear and hatred of fellow Americans -even if they have to use completely made up BULLSHIT LIES to do it.

Until you participate in finding out how a typical doctor spends his day -and believe me I can tell you never have just from the RIDICULOUS bullshit you wrote - where does anyone get off castigating an ENTIRE OCCUPATION by suggesting that since doctors are paid for their services, they will intentionally keep as many people as sick as possible as if that is actually a viable money making scheme! Are you kidding? Oh, since you pay your car mechanic for his services too, do you think he intentionally keeps your car running poorly so you have to keep coming back because he thinks THAT is a great money making scheme too? No doubt you would recommend him to your friends and family, right? ROFL What a moron.

I'm sorry to break this stupid delusion up but this is not a money making scheme -even a bad one. Not going to make any doctor rich to keep their patients sick for as long as possible. They have plenty of healthy people lined up waiting to get in their door and the pay-off to see healthy people is a better financial bargain -and they have plenty of sick people pushed to the back of the line who NEED to be seen. But it is the SICK ones doctors worry about, go home concerned they overlooked something, will spend hours going over their tests looking for a clue, will spend hours consulting with colleagues about the best treatment - and get pissed off about when other doctors and hospitals are forced to also shove the sick to the back of the line because a never ending onslaught of healthy people have been encouraged to over utilize the system. In the UK it has resulted in making the average wait for a doctor's appointment go from 3 months to TWO YEARS! Which goes a really long way in explaining why their morbidity and mortality rates did a 180 and started rising -while ours are still dropping. But keep your fingers crossed -if people like you get your way, we too can embrace that same overburdened, over utilized system and pretend being forced to wait years to be seen represents a real improvement in the quality of our medical care too.

Fully 90% of ALL medical advancements in the world -come from OUR system. Oh sure, its the people who actually work in the field that are the root cause of the problems in our health care system. Not third party payers, not government. That's right -government is always the answer because no matter what it is, government will always do it better, more effectively and efficiently and for a lot less money! ROFLMAO! Oh sure, the real problem are the people who actually expect to get paid to take care of you and are actually involved in some leftwing WHACKO'S totally made up bullshit that they deliberately keep people ill as long as possible because it is such an incredible money making scheme! ROFL -yeah and if that's true -ANY fee for service is as well and it should all be banned and government take it ALL over entirely because we all know whatever government does, it will do it better, more effectively, efficiently, productively and for a lot less money too! Like they do in all those other countries where people have the privilege of being at greatly increased risk of DYING just waiting for their doctor's appointment! THAT is a liberal's idea of "improving" the system! ROFL What an asshole you are -and you totally proved you don't know jackshit about the REAL problems in our system -or the real source of them either.

And hey -if doctors are in a con job game of deliberately keeping people sick in order to make money -how about those EVIL veterinarians! Surely they are all keeping our pets sick in order to bilk us out of more money too, right? Wonder why liberals aren't demanding the government takeover of veterinary care at the same time. LOL

 

[sparky]

great vitirol, less filling Fizzle...

 

[Wiseacre]

Coupla things. First, doesn't the Hippocratic mean a damn thing? Bet it does to some providers. Wouldn't a doctor who doesn't really treat the problem risk losing their medical license as well as face malpractice suits? That's gotta be at least some deterrent.

Because often treating the sympthom, while ignoring the cause is routine, and universally accepted Wise. The antibiotic paradox is probably the most prevelant example of this. The old joke being amoxicillin illicts the presence of a child built on the back of the phenomenon...

But here's my issue with ObamaCare or a single payer system regarding this issue. We can't be giving people free health care at no cost, there's gotta be some cost to the patient to incentivize their help in keeping costs down. Which happens if they have to pay part of the bill, no? They can be surfing the net for information regarding their problem, I know I would. And did when I had prostate cancer. Plus they should be able to check with the AMA or the applicable specialty assn to find out the facts and whether or not they're being treated correctly.

Allow me to forward the best example i know of. It costs what? Upwards to $1K to enter the ER door now? This is greatly due to JACHO mandates, a legally hostile environ being catalyst for the lions share of it all

One gets to witness all manner of it's abuse, patients with no more than a splinter, small abrasion, very minor injuries the average mother of yesteryear would mitigate.

In fact, there are many who, having absolutely no physical complaint at all, wish to be taken to the ER 'for insurance reasons' , after a fender bender

Then there's the parade of sec 8's on medicare, who have no other quick resource , but to solicit the very same ER

Now you might ask, 'isn't this much unnecessary ado & expense'? in the aforementioned examples, but there is no legal mechanism to refuse service to them, and Big Insurance LOVES to see 'em coming, because they;re ALL in thier back pocket

see?

No. I must be a idiot, but at least I have the good sense to know it. I'm talking about people being more responsible for their healthcare, which I'm not seeing as likely under ObamaCare or RyanCare or any other plan that comes along. Especially if they aren't paying much or anything at all.

You're talking about people ending up going to the ER, which happens now and will continue no matter what. I don't think any current healthcare plan will change the fact that people will show up at the ER, cuz it'll be too damn hard and take too damn long to see a doctor. Scarcity of providers and increasing demand, no matter what the pols do.

 

[sparky]

c'mon Wisearce, you're well spoken and no fool here. Surely you can see through the thin guise of hypocratic oaths foisted by corporate parasites and their toadies cloaking the systemic problems of capitalist medicine in America today?


That said, i will acknowledge most people probably know more about their cars , that their bodies. So your personal responsibility avenue does have legs in this debate....

 

[Wiseacre]

c'mon Wisearce, you're well spoken and no fool here. Surely you can see through the thin guise of hypocratic oaths foisted by corporate parasites and their toadies cloaking the systemic problems of capitalist medicine in America today?


That said, i will acknowledge most people probably know more about their cars , that their bodies. So your personal responsibility avenue does have legs in this debate....

Do you think the number of ER visits will decline under ObamaCare? Or RyanCare either, for that matter?

 

[frazzledgear]

Ideally, the free market should drive society towards the best results since those will be more profitable. Well, healthcare works a little differently.

If I get people well faster, I make less money. If I don't get people well, I make less money. But, if I can get people slightly better at a steady rate, they will keep coming back and I will make more money.

This is how healthcare works right now. There is a financial dis-incentive to get people fixed. The incentive is for slow improvement, or maintenance while taking a drug. This path drives a society towards a state where they're a little sick, though not well, and in constant need of some care.

Is that what you see now in America?

Just out of curiosity are you the doctor here or are you quoting someone else?

He is NOT a doctor. He did not list a single REAL problem with our health care system and did the typical leftwing extremist stunt of trying to convince people that the real problem is just evil doctors who think keeping you deliberately sick for as long as possible is a real moneymaking scheme!

Since when did any whacko leftist need proof of such a thing anyway before turning and declaring yet more fellow Americans to be the enemy. Again.

On top of which his contention that it is even possible to SECRETLY keep Americans sick and in constant need of care is SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE and nothing but MADE UP LEFTWING EXTREMIST BULLSHIT. He is contending that people get sick with something, anything -and then go to the doctor -who then refuses to provide the CURE and instead only gives them just enough treatment to make them feel just a LITTLE bit better but still sick enough they keep coming back.

NO ONE who works in the medical field would even say such a thing -because they would be the very first to know that is IMPOSSIBLE! Because most of what makes people sick is SELF-LIMITING in the first place. Which means its going to go away all by itself anyway. People don't even need to go to a doctor for most of what makes people sick -and when they do it is because they want symptomatic relief. The cure for most of what makes people get sick is IN THEIR OWN BODIES. So in order to make that disease last longer would require immune destroying drugs in order to alter your immune system so your body can't eradicate the disease. And that would actually put the person at risk of falling victim to still other and far more serious diseases if you did that. So in reality you wouldn't be making people feel a LITTLE better while withholding a "cure" -you would be making them SICKER, not better at all. On top of which it would also require pharmacies to be in cahoots with them because pharmacists would not only see that you had been prescribed an immune altering drug, they would give you the printout listing it as such a drug along with all the hazards of taking that drug! Get real on this bullshit already!

A real doctor would have known that -and much more about why his contention is not only stupid, but impossible to do. Since he didn't list a SINGLE real problem with the health care system it only PROVES how truly WEAK his position to try and justify his belief that we need to destroy our entire health care system and replace it with another copy of a known failure of one instead. One with very real and very serious problems that are resistant to being fixed at all.

What an ass. He must think doctors joined some secret society where what they REALLY learned was how to withhold cures without killing patients -in the belief it is actually possible to only HALF cure people?? For real?? Since when it is possible to HALF cure someone? And the proof he has for that is......? Doctors get paid when you utilize their services? Are you kidding?

If he thinks this is a real problem in this country -then why isn't he beating the drum demanding government takeover veterinary care too then? And car mechanics too while he's at it! Hmmm? Vets and car mechanics don't make as much as doctors who treat humans -wouldn't THEY find that an even better moneymaking scheme for THEM? You think doctors who treat humans are somehow EVIL but those who treat animals or fix your cars - are what? Pure of heart? ROFLMAO! Yet vets work on a fee-for-service basis. You take your dog to him, he expects you to pay him for seeing and treating it. Wow -what a concept, huh? But isn't that really all the PROOF this guy needs to claim vets are also deliberately keeping pets SICK and withholding full treatment -all because they see it as a great moneymaking scheme too?

Just the very idea that people would expect to be paid for their services makes them EVIL in this guy's eyes -and has him convinced it is all the motive they need to deliberately NOT do the job they are being paid to do!

This is just about the broadest condemnation of the free market concept the leftwing extremist tries to make. That people actually think they would make more money by NOT doing the job they were being paid to do rather than do it well? But would really only do the job properly if government was their boss (slave owner). It is the typical COMMUNIST argument against the free market system that people are so INHERENTLY evil and bad that it requires the constant oversight of their own invention -government -to make them "honest". When in fact we know for a fact that the power of government is a CORRUPTING influence -not a CURATIVE one!

So the ONLY question anyone should be asking this guy -is who he thinks will benefit from his LIES he is spreading here? Who stands to gain if he can convince people the "real" problem with our health care system is the very people who work to identify, diagnose and treat illnesses in the first place who should all now be viewed as more fellow Americans who are the "real" enemy of us all? (Aren't they getting close to having declared just about every American to be the enemy of this country by now?) And then maybe he can explain how that is possible at the same time our morbidity and mortality rates continue to decline? While those same rates for a bunch of diseases that are still declining here -are on the rise in countries like the UK. How is it possible that 90% of all medical advancements in the entire world -come under OUR system and NOT from one of those he thinks do it better somehow?