Healthcare vs. Free Market from a Doc

[typhoon5ht]

Ideally, the free market should drive society towards the best results since those will be more profitable. Well, healthcare works a little differently.

If I get people well faster, I make less money. If I don't get people well, I make less money. But, if I can get people slightly better at a steady rate, they will keep coming back and I will make more money.

This is how healthcare works right now. There is a financial dis-incentive to get people fixed. The incentive is for slow improvement, or maintenance while taking a drug. This path drives a society towards a state where they're a little sick, though not well, and in constant need of some care.

Is that what you see now in America?

 

[Bern80]

Ideally, the free market should drive society towards the best results since those will be more profitable. Well, healthcare works a little differently.

If I get people well faster, I make less money. If I don't get people well, I make less money. But, if I can get people slightly better at a steady rate, they will keep coming back and I will make more money.

This is how healthcare works right now. There is a financial dis-incentive to get people fixed. The incentive is for slow improvement, or maintenance while taking a drug. This path drives a society towards a state where they're a little sick, though not well, and in constant need of some care.

Is that what you see now in America?

Just out of curiosity are you the doctor here or are you quoting someone else?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I've heard that same type of argument about education.

The free market cannot provide quality education because all they will do is pass students so as to collect tuition.

Well we see private schools producing better students than public because it's the public schools that use social promotion not the private schools.

 

[Wiseacre]

Hard to believe you're a doctor. But anyway, in a free market aren't you risking losing patients if your not really helping people? Frankly, if you were treating me or somebody in my family, I'd find another doctor. Eventually your reputation would begin to suffer, and your ethics would definitely be in question.

 

[Bern80]

Hard to believe you're a doctor. But anyway, in a free market aren't you risking losing patients if your not really helping people? Frankly, if you were treating me or somebody in my family, I'd find another doctor. Eventually your reputation would begin to suffer, and your ethics would definitely be in question.

Just goes to show just because you have the education of doctor doesn't mean your exactly smart or understand the free market. Woud you continue to take your car to mechanic that can't seem to get it fixed right?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Ideally, the free market should drive society towards the best results since those will be more profitable. Well, healthcare works a little differently.

If I get people well faster, I make less money. If I don't get people well, I make less money. But, if I can get people slightly better at a steady rate, they will keep coming back and I will make more money.

This is how healthcare works right now. There is a financial dis-incentive to get people fixed. The incentive is for slow improvement, or maintenance while taking a drug. This path drives a society towards a state where they're a little sick, though not well, and in constant need of some care.

Is that what you see now in America?

There is no free market in the American health care industry.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

1. There is no meaningful competition among the major players (insurers, hospitals, and drug companies).

2. The total number of US hospitals and pharmaceutical companies is going down.

3. Items (1) and (2) give a few collusive players full control over a market that has inflexible demand.

4. About 21% of health care spending covers administrative costs, 85% of which goes to private carriers.

5: Drug overmarketing. "Side effects may include headaches, swelling, confusion, anger, extreme poverty, and bankruptcy. If you can't afford your medication, fuck you."

 

[Avorysuds]

Ideally, the free market should drive society towards the best results since those will be more profitable. Well, healthcare works a little differently.

If I get people well faster, I make less money. If I don't get people well, I make less money. But, if I can get people slightly better at a steady rate, they will keep coming back and I will make more money.

This is how healthcare works right now. There is a financial dis-incentive to get people fixed. The incentive is for slow improvement, or maintenance while taking a drug. This path drives a society towards a state where they're a little sick, though not well, and in constant need of some care.

Is that what you see now in America?

There is no free market in the American health care industry.

I agree

The scenario the OP posted would fall apart because “Free Markets” work not by force and monopolies like the OP implies. If one Doctor always has sick, semi sick or poor health patients and across the street the Doctor has a reputation for healing you ASAP what doctor will be getting all the business?

That’s like saying a guy that sells spoons that dissolve in anything wet will do just as well, or as in the OPs case better than the Spoon dealer that makes spoons that can last a lifetime….

No wonder so many people hate Free markets, they have lived most their life in a non free market while being told it’s a free market…

 

[Avorysuds]

1. There is no meaningful competition among the major players (insurers, hospitals, and drug companies).

2. The total number of US hospitals and pharmaceutical companies is going down.

3. Items (1) and (2) give a few collusive players full control over a market that has inflexible demand.

4. About 21% of health care spending covers administrative costs, 85% of which goes to private carriers.

5: Drug overmarketing. "Side effects may include headaches, swelling, confusion, anger, extreme poverty, and bankruptcy. If you can't afford your medication, fuck you."

Do you know the number one reason people "have to" take medication?

 

[AquaAthena]

Ideally, the free market should drive society towards the best results since those will be more profitable. Well, healthcare works a little differently.

If I get people well faster, I make less money. If I don't get people well, I make less money. But, if I can get people slightly better at a steady rate, they will keep coming back and I will make more money.

This is how healthcare works right now. There is a financial dis-incentive to get people fixed. The incentive is for slow improvement, or maintenance while taking a drug. This path drives a society towards a state where they're a little sick, though not well, and in constant need of some care.

Is that what you see now in America?

Sorry, but clinicians have a higher calling and ambition than the dishonest one you describe. It is called the Hippocratic Oath and doctors spend many thousands of dollars and many years of their lives in education because of their desire to cure people of disease and illness.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

1. There is no meaningful competition among the major players (insurers, hospitals, and drug companies).

2. The total number of US hospitals and pharmaceutical companies is going down.

3. Items (1) and (2) give a few collusive players full control over a market that has inflexible demand.

4. About 21% of health care spending covers administrative costs, 85% of which goes to private carriers.

5: Drug overmarketing. "Side effects may include headaches, swelling, confusion, anger, extreme poverty, and bankruptcy. If you can't afford your medication, fuck you."

Do you know the number one reason people "have to" take medication?

I can guess, but since you brought it up, go ahead and enlighten us.

 

[Avorysuds]

1. There is no meaningful competition among the major players (insurers, hospitals, and drug companies).

2. The total number of US hospitals and pharmaceutical companies is going down.

3. Items (1) and (2) give a few collusive players full control over a market that has inflexible demand.

4. About 21% of health care spending covers administrative costs, 85% of which goes to private carriers.

5: Drug overmarketing. "Side effects may include headaches, swelling, confusion, anger, extreme poverty, and bankruptcy. If you can't afford your medication, fuck you."

Do you know the number one reason people "have to" take medication?

I can guess, but since you brought it up, go ahead and enlighten us.

Obesity and the vast amount of health issues that come along with it. In fact I believe Obesity is the number#1 killer (at least by Health care issues) in our country. Just remember when you look up the top killers to find out what causes them =D

 

[Wonky Pundit]

Do you know the number one reason people "have to" take medication?

I can guess, but since you brought it up, go ahead and enlighten us.

Obesity and the vast amount of health issues that come along with it. In fact I believe Obesity is the number#1 killer (at least by Health care issues) in our country. Just remember when you look up the top killers to find out what causes them =D

I'd like to know how you isolate the health issues that come with it. The amount spent on obesity itself, according to MedicalBillingAndCoding.org, is only about $25 billion. That's a very small fraction of the total amount spent on health care.

 

[Avorysuds]

cardiovascular disease - you can find this like anywhere but here is a link of main causes of it...

Causes of Cardiovascular Disease


Now, if you want to spend the time (because I don't) each reason for CD and then try and find the main issues that cause that problem... Hint, when you see "diet" and "exercise" as ways to cure, help or avoid that problem think "Obesity."

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ideally, the free market should drive society towards the best results since those will be more profitable. Well, healthcare works a little differently.

If I get people well faster, I make less money. If I don't get people well, I make less money. But, if I can get people slightly better at a steady rate, they will keep coming back and I will make more money.

This is how healthcare works right now. There is a financial dis-incentive to get people fixed. The incentive is for slow improvement, or maintenance while taking a drug. This path drives a society towards a state where they're a little sick, though not well, and in constant need of some care.

Is that what you see now in America?

Just because you are a doctor does not mean you understand the free market.

There is no financial incentive in the market for people to save money because they are not spending their money. When I contract directly with a doctor for my health care we both have incentives that actually directly affect our bottom line. If the doctor tries to keep me sick I will find another doctor, which will end up loosing him money as the word gets around that his goal is not to heal.

What we have now is not a free market, which is why you see an incentive to keep people sick.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

cardiovascular disease - you can find this like anywhere but here is a link of main causes of it...

Causes of Cardiovascular Disease


Now, if you want to spend the time (because I don't) each reason for CD and then try and find the main issues that cause that problem... Hint, when you see "diet" and "exercise" as ways to cure, help or avoid that problem think "Obesity."

Cardiovascular disease and diabetes combined still account for only about 10% of every health care dollar spent in the US (same source as above), or $147 billion. That could be enough to push obesity into the number one spot for requiring patients to take meds, but it's questionable.

 

[auditor0007]

Do you know the number one reason people "have to" take medication?

I can guess, but since you brought it up, go ahead and enlighten us.

Obesity and the vast amount of health issues that come along with it. In fact I believe Obesity is the number#1 killer (at least by Health care issues) in our country. Just remember when you look up the top killers to find out what causes them =D

What kills us is not necessarily what costs us the most money. Everyone dies, and most get sick before they die. It is those who are eternally sick and stay alive for twenty years needing every type of drug and treatment to keep them alive. Many of these people are sick because of their poor lifestyle choices. This would include those who are obese, those who smoke, those who drink too much alcohol, and I'm sure there are many other things people do that contributes to poor health.

 

[sparky]

recent study by Medco Health Solutions found that in 2007, 51% of insured Americans take at least one prescription pill every day for a chronic medical condition, the first year we’ve cracked 50%. One-fifth actually take three or more daily pills. Here’s the scariest part of all—almost one-third of children and teenagers also take a pill a day for a chronic illness. From the AP story:

The study found a surge in children’s use of medicines to treat weight-related problems and other illnesses previously considered adult problems. Medco estimates about 1.2 million American children now are taking pills for Type 2 diabetes, sleeping troubles and gastrointestinal problems such as heartburn. “A scarier problem is that body weights are so much higher in children in general, and so we’re going to have larger numbers of adults who develop high blood pressure or abnormal cholesterol or diabetes at an earlier age,” said Dr. Daniel W. Jones, president of the American Heart Association.
Kids are obviously following their parents’ example. The most widely used drugs are for high blood pressure and cholesterol, conditions often linked to heart disease, obesity and diabetes.
Dr. Robert Epstein, chief medical officer of Medco (a prescription management firm), said “Honestly, a lot of it is related to obesity. We’ve become a couch potato culture (and) it’s a lot easier to pop a pill” than to exercise regularly or diet.


Epstein also noted the biggest jump in use of chronic medications was in the 20- to 44-year-old age group, where it rose 20% over six years. That was mainly due to more use of drugs for depression, diabetes, asthma, attention-deficit disorder and seizures.

Pill-Popping Nation - BusinessWeek

One seriously needs to consider the system vs. the players with said system, eh?

~S~

 

[typhoon5ht]

Sparky gets it.

As a doctor, I have every financial incentive to treat chronic medical conditions rather than heal them completely. Thus, patients are driven towards chronic care rather than a path towards full recovery. One example is type 2 diabetes. This is directly related to obesity, and starting with high body weight, but also disappearing when patients return to a normal body weight.

The fix is to send all type 2 diabetics onto "The Biggest Loser." The chronic treatment is to give them insulin, several times a day, 25 bucks a shot, 365 days a year, and 10 years later, the cost is $91,250. It might cost 5-10k to send someone to bootcamp and lose the weight, but that's like a 1/10 of the cost. Free market should push towards this treatment if free market works in healthcare.

Unfortunately, it doesn't.

 

[Wiseacre]

First off, you shouldn't be hawking your book here, when the mods find out you're toast.

I don't know that there's much difference between the free market and ObamaCare or single payer when it comes to disincentivizing a doctor to avoid or delay treating an illness. Either way you run the risk of being disbarred or at least getting a bad rep and fewer patients than otherwise. I might postulate that under the free market the insurance companies may eventually realize what you're up to and drop from their network of providers. Especially if some patients complain about not being cured. Under Medicare, probably not going to happen.