Healthcare For All / Real Solutions

[MaggieMae]

If I get any type of cancer, then I'll probably die. But hey, we're not meant to live forever. Health insurance is a scam and you're an idiot for not realizing it. I raised three kids to the age of majority without health insurance, I came from humble beginnings after dropping out of school at 15 and spending almost three years in a Texas state prison, I've done pretty damn well for myself and I don't need you nor the govt. telling me what the fuck I need. And your comment was as worthless as tits on a boar hog, but thanks for playing!

I guess you're lucky that neither you, your wife, or kids never had to face a life threatening illness. I have though. My wife died from leukemia and I have health issues that could shorten my life considerably without the proper care. But as I said before, until it effects you personally, it's no big deal, because again, you completely lack any vision.

Had one of your kids been diagnosed with leukemia, and you been denied treatment for them, tell me you would have been just fine with them dying. Your so full of shit it's coming out every orifice of your body.

What is the appropriate age to die these days ? You know--the one where people don't piss and moan about everthing being so unfair.

Another really dumb question.

 

[Oddball]

Still trying to spread that lie, I see. That bogus claim has of course been completely misconstrued, and yet, ironically, private health insurers have been TELLING YOU for decades whether or not you are deemed "healthworthy" and whether or not you will be allowed to have certain procedures done. But because it is "private" companies doing just that, it's fine. Correct?

Misconstrued nothing.

When the yearly budget for things like hip replacements and knee ligament surgeries runs out in places with socialized medical services, like Canada and England, then you can just suck your thumb and wait until next year....If your far along enough on the waiting list.

If that's not bureaucrats determining who is and isn't "healthworty" nothing is.

Replacing one screwed up collectivized third-party system with an even worse screwed up collectivist third-party payer system, does nothing to solve the inherent problems that come with insulating the end user from the costs of the services they seek.

If anyone here is lying, it's you. And you're lying to the worst person in the world you can....Yourself.

 

[MaggieMae]

If I get any type of cancer, then I'll probably die. But hey, we're not meant to live forever. Health insurance is a scam and you're an idiot for not realizing it. I raised three kids to the age of majority without health insurance, I came from humble beginnings after dropping out of school at 15 and spending almost three years in a Texas state prison, I've done pretty damn well for myself and I don't need you nor the govt. telling me what the fuck I need. And your comment was as worthless as tits on a boar hog, but thanks for playing!

I guess you're lucky that neither you, your wife, or kids never had to face a life threatening illness. I have though. My wife died from leukemia and I have health issues that could shorten my life considerably without the proper care. But as I said before, until it effects you personally, it's no big deal, because again, you completely lack any vision.

Had one of your kids been diagnosed with leukemia, and you been denied treatment for them, tell me you would have been just fine with them dying. Your so full of shit it's coming out every orifice of your body.

My wife died giving birth to my third child.

Health insurance does not guarantee a long life. If one of my children had come down with a life threatening illness then I would seek medical attention and I would pay my bill in full with cash or utilizing a payment plan. One thing you fail to realize is that in a life threatening situation you will not be turned away from any emergency room in these United States regardless of insurance. It's against the law!! I should know better than to present you with facts. I know how facts confuse people of your ilk.

Some clown on C-Span the other day was making a similar argumet as Lonewolf (ooops, Lonestar), only he added at the end of his rant that "only the strong should survive anyway." Sound familiar? This has become a cultish mentality oozing from the depths of inbred ignorance of history, unfortunately.

 

[MaggieMae]

My fourth and final post on this website and I feel already that I must move on. Not because I am anything that your forthcoming responses may describe me to be, but because I have quickly come to the conclusion that you are for the most part a group of dismissive, closed minded individuals. I am assuming that those posting in this thread are a fair sampling of the people on this site and that is probably a simplification, but it is my decision to make. Continue your game without me as my time can most certainly be better spent elsewhere.

I hope you stick around, gravity, or at least check in from time to time. Not everyone from the opposing political side is as warped as some of those you're reading in this thread. You'll also note that certain ones tend to clump together at particular times during a 24-hour period, so the conversation can often take a more civil and intelligent tone in late afternoon as opposed to wee hours. But not always.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

The Constitution doesn't specifically provide for a lot of things you now enjoy and couldn't live without--like paved roads and Internet access. Frankly, I'm sick of seeing people USE the Constitution as their crutch.

Obviously a person that has zero understanding of the constitution says, means or what the original intent of it's creation was .... perhaps if you bothered to do some homework you wouldn't have to be "sick" of people bringing up the constitution at times that are inconvienient for your silly notions.

 

[MaggieMae]

The first clause of Article I, Section 8, reads, "The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States." This clause, called the General Welfare Clause or the Spending Power Clause, does not grant Congress the power to legislate for the general welfare of the country; that is a power reserved to the states through the Tenth Amendment. Rather, it merely allows Congress to spend federal money for the general welfare. The principle underlying this distinction—the limitation of federal power—eventually inspired the only important disagreement over the meaning of the clause.

In United States v. Butler, 56 S. Ct. 312, 297 U.S. 1, 80 L. Ed. 477 (1936), the U.S. Supreme Court invalidated a federal agricultural spending program because a specific congressional power over agricultural production appeared nowhere in the Constitution
General Welfare legal definition of General Welfare. General Welfare synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

You mean that one Dude? I've seen it used quite a bit, there is actually a SCOTUS decision though on healthcare "rights" granted to prisoners though.

Under the Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution, it has been determined
that prisoners (or inmates) have a constitutional right to adequate health care.1 Texas has
codified society’s requirement to give care to its incarcerated persons, and requires state prisons
to provide health care.2 Under the final HIPAA Privacy rule, identifiable health information
pertaining to “inmates” has been deemed “protected health information,” called “PHI.” Although
excepted in the preliminary rule, the final Privacy Rule protects inmates’ PHI.3 This protection is
further broadened by the loose definition afforded to “inmates.”
http://www.law.uh.edu/healthlaw/perspectives/Privacy/030128HIPAAs.pdf

Thanks for the background. Of course even the Gitmo detainees had better medical care than many of our own citizens, for free. It's really one of those WTF? hypocrisies in light of today's ongoing debate.

I've also always found it curious that the general welfare clause in the Preamble is the ONLY phrase therein that has ever been raised as questionable as the Preamble relates to the text that follows it.

 

[MaggieMae]

Except that most people aren't eligible for medicare or medicaid. Whoops, there goes that theory.

Irrelevant to the fact that they're grossly inefficient, corrupt, and cost more than threefold what they were projected to.

Whoops, there goes that lefty wingnut talking point.

Medicare is not grossly inefficient. It has become costly because people are living longer and therefore being added to the system in greater numbers. The reason they are living longer is because of all the high tech stuff that maintains life and which is covered by Medicare. A double whammy. It's a no-fucking-brainer. As for Medicaid, that's only as efficient as the individual states administer the program. They are given grant money for Medicaid; how it is disbursed and controlled is not governed at the federal level.

 

[MaggieMae]

They have lower administrative costs.. However administration is not the only item of outlay on a balance sheet. Nonwithstanding those administrative costs, Medicare/Medicaid are still exorbitantly over their projected costs, by no less than a factor of three, and likely more.

Also, outside of administration, Medicare/Medicaid are rife with fraud, duplication of services, and abuse from stem to stern.

The abuses originate from physicians and hospital administrators. Surprise surprise.

 

[MaggieMae]

HORSE SHIT

You can go on the all butter diet, smoke 6 packs a day, live in a filthy house with mold and insects everywhere... your health has a LOT with the choices you make and the actions you take

But nice try

And what would you guess is the percentage of those types of people compared to a normal household?

Nice try.

 

[MaggieMae]

Is that because you moved to a different state?



Actually I have been in your shoes pal, I have a wife that's been chronically ill for years due to no fault of her own and have never once asked anybody else to pay the premiums on her health insurance. I'm defending the RIGHTS and PROPERTY of me and my fellow citizens from those that want to take them by force, that doesn't mean I believe the system cannot be improved, it does however mean that I do not accept that the way to improve it is to engage in further legalized theft from my me and my fellow citizens, the amount of legalized plunder that we already put up with is more than enough.

Because I moved to a different state, they treat me as a new applicant. Therefore, they can make the costs so high, it is basically unaffordable.

Tell me something; how much do you pay for your wife's insurance and healthcare per year? I was paying $6000 per year between premiums and out of pocket to cover deductibles. That was just for myself, not including my kids coverage. Now, it will cost me around $16,000 per year. Going without insurance, it will cost me around $4000 per year for the care I need. Of course, I would no longer have the insurance covering me in case my condition becomes critical. It likely will not, so I'll go without. However, if I do all of a sudden need a new liver, I'll be left to die, and my kids will lose the only surviving parent they have.

The dumb thing is that once my business is up and running, then I can get insurance through a small business plan, but I'll have to cover another employee. Then the cost will drop dramatically. But being self-employed with no other employees leaves myself and many others out of the loop.

What bothers me is that these companies only care about their bottom line. If it wasn't for other existing laws such as Hipaa, they would deny even more. To give you a better idea of how these companies operate, when I applied for a new policy in Ohio for my kids, I was told their rates would be around $130 per month. My kids are completely healthy with no health issues. After learning of my condition, they upped the rate on my kids to over $200 per month for each of them. I got basically the same policy for my kids through Aetna for $89 per month, because Aetna was not aware of my condition. So Anthem used my condition against my kids even though they have no medical condition themselves. And you think these insurance people are all on the up and up? LOL. There's good reason we need government intervention in their activities, because they will scam anyone they can given the opportunity.

I don't know what state you're in but in mine if you are an s-corporation you are considered an employee along with your wife. Based on that you would be able to get group insurance. YOU'RE lucky. In the state of Colorado they screwed all of us in the small business catagory. We can no longer get afforable group coverage.

I don't know why more regional small businesses don't get together and investigate health insurance pools, which provide access to a number of health plans for employees from several companies, from low-cost discount cards for medical services to comprehensive benefit packages. The employers select a single health insurer to provide the health plans, which have lower prices than individual health insurance policies or single choice health insurers for the individual small businesses.

 

[MaggieMae]

Still trying to spread that lie, I see. That bogus claim has of course been completely misconstrued, and yet, ironically, private health insurers have been TELLING YOU for decades whether or not you are deemed "healthworthy" and whether or not you will be allowed to have certain procedures done. But because it is "private" companies doing just that, it's fine. Correct?

Misconstrued nothing.

When the yearly budget for things like hip replacements and knee ligament surgeries runs out in places with socialized medical services, like Canada and England, then you can just suck your thumb and wait until next year....If your far along enough on the waiting list.

If that's not bureaucrats determining who is and isn't "healthworty" nothing is.

Replacing one screwed up collectivized third-party system with an even worse screwed up collectivist third-party payer system, does nothing to solve the inherent problems that come with insulating the end user from the costs of the services they seek.

If anyone here is lying, it's you. And you're lying to the worst person in the world you can....Yourself.

Well...ya know, just like Lonestar who doesn't worry about getting sick until it happens, if and when I need knee replacement, I guess I'll just have to deal with whatever is available at the time to cover the surgery. I don't AGONIZE over what "might be" the way you people do. For one thing, any USA universal health care would not model itself after the worst of England and Canada offers!

 

[oreo]

I am a little concerned that they're going with something called "Play or Pay". Resulting in raising taxes or fining employers if they do not pay for medical insurance for their employees.

The problem here since I am small business. If I cannot afford to insure my employees--there's only be one thing I am going to do. Lose some employees.

 

[KittenKoder]

I am a little concerned that they're going with something called "Play or Pay". Resulting in raising taxes or fining employers if they do not pay for medical insurance for their employees.

The problem here since I am small business. If I cannot afford to insure my employees--there's only be one thing I am going to do. Lose some employees.

It eill be another regulation so the government can drive out the competition of anyone who isn't bribing them. It's regs like this that have destroyed small business as it is.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

Let's examine:

The Federal Government mandating banks make home loans to individuals that aren't creditworthy vs. people continuing to rent / stay in their current homes / live with family or friends.

The Federal Government mandating health care providers provide health care to individuals that aren't healthworthy vs. people continuing to suffer and die.

I see a difference.

Actually you don't because there isn't one, it's a mirage planted in your mind by government propaganda. Theft by force is still theft by force, doesn't matter what the rational is behind your theft is or who you decide to steal from, it's still theft.

Nobody plans to FORCE you to do a fucking thing, moron.

Typical left winger response, doesn't understand the issue and can't demonstrate enough self control to refrain from name calling.

I hate to break this too you but when the government takes your money against your will under threat of legal sanction that is FORCE , it's the same thing as if they stuck a gun to your head and in the REAL WORLD we call that THEFT.

 

[Political Junky]

I don't want nor need healthcare insurance. I pay all my medical expenses in cash. So you can take your health insurance and stick it up Obama's ass.

Your very fortunate to be a multi-millionaire. Funny, none of the very wealthy are complaining about healthcare ... just the middle class and under.

 

[Political Junky]

I find it very ironic that so many people continue to support the failed system of insurance companies when it comes to our healthcare. A single payer plan, by all means makes the most sense. The whole point is that the insurance industry is just the middle man making huge profits at the expense of both the consumer and the providers.

However, there is another idea. We could allow hospitals and doctors to set up their own networks, providing their own plans that would compete with the insurance companies. Doctors would need to network with certain hospitals, but many already do this. There are some troubles with such a plan, but nothing that can't be worked out. For instance, these networks would also have to include drug plans, and they would have to work out a system of payment for out of network treatment in cases where people are traveling or find themselves in an emergency situation outside of the network.

The government could put everyone on a level playing field by ending the discrimination that exists in pricing by removing group discounts and by making it mandatory for everyone to be accepted that wants to purchase a network plan.

The biggest benefit would be that the middle man would be removed, and most of those costs would be removed. Lastly, there would be some real direct competetion for services, at least in the metropolitan areas.

I keep hearing about these huge profits health insurance companies are making but from looking at annual reports from a few large health insurance companies I found that profits were less than 3% of total revenues, premiums plus return on investments, in 2007 and most lost money in 2008 because of the falling stock market. This raises the question: if the insurance companies are only keeping 3% of revenues, why would anyone think a government run insurance company would be able to deliver much more bang for the buck? Would a 3% reduction in your premium really make that much difference in your life?

I'd be interested in seeing any other statistics regarding profits as a percentage of revenues anyone else has.

Have you checked out how much CEOs of those insurance companies make? Try Google.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

Have you checked out how much CEOs of those insurance companies make? Try Google.

What does CEO compensation have to do with anything? the compensation in a corporation is set by the board of directors, who represent the shareholders, who are the owners of the company... if the company is privately owned the owners set the CEO compensation directly... so what's your point?

 

[KrisMinar]

I'm planning to get my insurance but I'm still looking for some referrals and reviews of people around who has already one.