Healthcare For All / Real Solutions

[Oddball]

Unfortunately, ideological thinking, regardless of its mantra, is rarely a great thing when people try to apply it to every single issue.

A principled approach is a principled approach.

Any other way would be, by definition, unprincipled.

 

[Oddball]

I guess you're lucky that neither you, your wife, or kids never had to face a life threatening illness. I have though. My wife died from leukemia and I have health issues that could shorten my life considerably without the proper care. But as I said before, until it effects you personally, it's no big deal, because again, you completely lack any vision.

Had one of your kids been diagnosed with leukemia, and you been denied treatment for them, tell me you would have been just fine with them dying. Your so full of shit it's coming out every orifice of your body.

Soooo....Now the cat's out of the bag!!

There is in fact something in it for you to live at the expense of everyone else.

Ideological indeed.

 

[dilloduck]

Good for you. You are obviously a multi-millionaire then. Most of us are not. When you are diagnosed with leukemia and need a stem cell transplant along with all of the other care necessary, then you won't complain about the $1.5 million cost.

Of course, if you don't have that money up front, they will not treat you. So if you aren't a multi-millionaire and are not self-insured, then you're just an idiot. Actually, your an idiot anyway, because being individually self-insured makes no sense at all. You'd be a moron not to at least carry catastophic insurance with a very high deductible.

So basically, your statement is worthless to the discussion, but thanks for trying.

If I get any type of cancer, then I'll probably die. But hey, we're not meant to live forever. Health insurance is a scam and you're an idiot for not realizing it. I raised three kids to the age of majority without health insurance, I came from humble beginnings after dropping out of school at 15 and spending almost three years in a Texas state prison, I've done pretty damn well for myself and I don't need you nor the govt. telling me what the fuck I need. And your comment was as worthless as tits on a boar hog, but thanks for playing!

I guess you're lucky that neither you, your wife, or kids never had to face a life threatening illness. I have though. My wife died from leukemia and I have health issues that could shorten my life considerably without the proper care. But as I said before, until it effects you personally, it's no big deal, because again, you completely lack any vision.

Had one of your kids been diagnosed with leukemia, and you been denied treatment for them, tell me you would have been just fine with them dying. Your so full of shit it's coming out every orifice of your body.

What is the appropriate age to die these days ? You know--the one where people don't piss and moan about everthing being so unfair.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

I guess you're lucky that neither you, your wife, or kids never had to face a life threatening illness. I have though. My wife died from leukemia and I have health issues that could shorten my life considerably without the proper care. But as I said before, until it effects you personally, it's no big deal, because again, you completely lack any vision.

What you are proposing DOES affect other people personally, since what you are proposing is to take their property by force (stealing) to alleviate your suffering. It's the same rational that the Bush Administration used to justify the murder of innocent Iraqi civilians... to whit "It's 'collateral damage' and serves the 'greater good'.

There is absolutely no altruism in attempting to justify theft just as there is no altruism in attempting to justify murder, doesn't matter whether a majority voted for the idiots that are proposing to do it or not.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

What is the appropriate age to die these days ? You know--the one where people don't piss and moan about everthing being so unfair.

If the current climate of propaganda is to be believed it would be sometime before the sperm hits the egg...

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Good for you. You are obviously a multi-millionaire then. Most of us are not. When you are diagnosed with leukemia and need a stem cell transplant along with all of the other care necessary, then you won't complain about the $1.5 million cost.

Of course, if you don't have that money up front, they will not treat you. So if you aren't a multi-millionaire and are not self-insured, then you're just an idiot. Actually, your an idiot anyway, because being individually self-insured makes no sense at all. You'd be a moron not to at least carry catastophic insurance with a very high deductible.

So basically, your statement is worthless to the discussion, but thanks for trying.

If I get any type of cancer, then I'll probably die. But hey, we're not meant to live forever. Health insurance is a scam and you're an idiot for not realizing it. I raised three kids to the age of majority without health insurance, I came from humble beginnings after dropping out of school at 15 and spending almost three years in a Texas state prison, I've done pretty damn well for myself and I don't need you nor the govt. telling me what the fuck I need. And your comment was as worthless as tits on a boar hog, but thanks for playing!

I guess you're lucky that neither you, your wife, or kids never had to face a life threatening illness. I have though. My wife died from leukemia and I have health issues that could shorten my life considerably without the proper care. But as I said before, until it effects you personally, it's no big deal, because again, you completely lack any vision.

Had one of your kids been diagnosed with leukemia, and you been denied treatment for them, tell me you would have been just fine with them dying. Your so full of shit it's coming out every orifice of your body.

My wife died giving birth to my third child.

Health insurance does not guarantee a long life. If one of my children had come down with a life threatening illness then I would seek medical attention and I would pay my bill in full with cash or utilizing a payment plan. One thing you fail to realize is that in a life threatening situation you will not be turned away from any emergency room in these United States regardless of insurance. It's against the law!! I should know better than to present you with facts. I know how facts confuse people of your ilk.

 

[gravity]

My fourth and final post on this website and I feel already that I must move on. Not because I am anything that your forthcoming responses may describe me to be, but because I have quickly come to the conclusion that you are for the most part a group of dismissive, closed minded individuals. I am assuming that those posting in this thread are a fair sampling of the people on this site and that is probably a simplification, but it is my decision to make. Continue your game without me as my time can most certainly be better spent elsewhere.

 

[Oddball]

Yeah..."open minded" as in going along with you.

Don't let the door hit you, cryass.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

Yeah..."open minded" as in going along with you.

Don't let the door hit you, cryass.

ROFLMAO!

There's he goes again, our resident bleeding heart liberal showing his sensitive side again.

 

[Shogun]

I think that you standard issue conservatives wold complain about how shiny free gold is. Crying about socialism and canadian health care doesn't invalidate the FACT that our medical system is failing the population of the US. And, if the US is a nation of laws and policies then you silly little bastards are going to have to deal with the product of elections. better luck next time.



That said, I think a better starting point to the idea of Universal Health care would have been to offer vouchers for specific screenings instead of giving these conservative bastards another reason to segment who does and who doesn't get access to health care. I'd LOVE to see any of you silly little fucks argue against federal vouchers for universal breast cancer exams. Especially when, clearly, you seem to need rectal exams, yourselves, to find out how rusty is that pipe that is stuck up your collective asses.

Starting with basic services and then adding to that list would provide an acclimation period impervious to the bitching of these "im wealthy enough to pay for health coverage" bastards. Hell, if NOTHING else, these services could be provided by doctors who have enjoyed the tit of American Tax Payers, themselves, via financial aid support.


Clearly, blocks of half dead paupers is the better way to go in order to keep these fucks from feeling that they have anything in common with po folk.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I find it very ironic that so many people continue to support the failed system of insurance companies when it comes to our healthcare. A single payer plan, by all means makes the most sense. The whole point is that the insurance industry is just the middle man making huge profits at the expense of both the consumer and the providers.

However, there is another idea. We could allow hospitals and doctors to set up their own networks, providing their own plans that would compete with the insurance companies. Doctors would need to network with certain hospitals, but many already do this. There are some troubles with such a plan, but nothing that can't be worked out. For instance, these networks would also have to include drug plans, and they would have to work out a system of payment for out of network treatment in cases where people are traveling or find themselves in an emergency situation outside of the network.

The government could put everyone on a level playing field by ending the discrimination that exists in pricing by removing group discounts and by making it mandatory for everyone to be accepted that wants to purchase a network plan.

The biggest benefit would be that the middle man would be removed, and most of those costs would be removed. Lastly, there would be some real direct competetion for services, at least in the metropolitan areas.

I keep hearing about these huge profits health insurance companies are making but from looking at annual reports from a few large health insurance companies I found that profits were less than 3% of total revenues, premiums plus return on investments, in 2007 and most lost money in 2008 because of the falling stock market. This raises the question: if the insurance companies are only keeping 3% of revenues, why would anyone think a government run insurance company would be able to deliver much more bang for the buck? Would a 3% reduction in your premium really make that much difference in your life?

I'd be interested in seeing any other statistics regarding profits as a percentage of revenues anyone else has.

 

[Oddball]

Clearly, blocks of half dead paupers is the better way to go in order to keep these fucks from feeling that they have anything in common with po folk.

Look....Up in the sky....

It's a bird....It's a plane....No, it's....

 

[Navy1960]

auditor I'd like to address you if I could without reposting what I have elsewhere. Of course Govt. has a purpose and it's well defined in the consitution what that purpose is. When one starts with the supposition that all health insurance companies must be bad and that the entire system is broken and needs to be fixed without taking into consideration that there are millions of Americans who are happy with the system as it is, as well as even some who don't care to have insurance and still even some who abuse the system and just simply don't care is rather short sighted. The fact is, that everyone of those people and you too are exercising something called a freedom to choose. In fact, you choose where you work, in doing so you choose your healthcare, if you cannot afford it then that is choosing as well. No one at least from my reading is denying that the healthcare industry does not need to reign in its costs in order make insurance affordable for those who what it. I for one think thats a must as well. I personally don't think though that mandating converage to ALL is a step in the right direction. By doing so you fix the symptom and not the problem. In fact you create much bigger problems. I also submit that if the goal is to actually cover everyone uniformaly then do so within the framework of our form of Govt. and do not mandate that Insurance companies accept everyone at a low cost and do not enter into direct competetion with them. While I think the goal is the same to make healthcare more affordable for everyone I think the difference giving up an essential freedom. I personally would not want to give up a Freedom at any cost especially when this problem is so easily solved with a little hard work on the part of both parties in power. I suggested earlier a big step in bringing down costs is to provide incentives to businesses willing to offer health insurancew/o pre-existing conditions and at low costs to people in the form of tax breaks and Govt. grants etc etc. This will promote competetion and will keep it a private enterprise without the Govt. involved in peoples healthcare decisions.

 

[Shogun]

Clearly, blocks of half dead paupers is the better way to go in order to keep these fucks from feeling that they have anything in common with po folk.

Look....Up in the sky....

It's a bird....It's a plane....No, it's....

EXCELLENT retort. Clearly, I intimidate you.

 

[Oddball]

auditor I'd like to address you if I could without reposting what I have elsewhere. Of course Govt. has a purpose and it's well defined in the consitution what that purpose is......

Prepare yourself for the greatly misused, abused, and taken out of context "general welfare" clause, Navy.

 

[Oddball]

EXCELLENT retort. Clearly, I intimidate you.

You don't intimidate jack shit, Buckwheat.

You an booboo are about neck-and-neck in over the top hysterics...Which I find more amusing than anything else.

 

[Shogun]

EXCELLENT retort. Clearly, I intimidate you.

You don't intimidate jack shit, Buckwheat.

You an booboo are about neck-and-neck in over the top hysterics...Which I find more amusing than anything else.

which is why you respond to numeric facts (in economic threads) and UHC concepts in THIS thread with profound images from the interwebz, eh?



You should probably go hide under the wing of one of your like minded conservatives, dude.. you'll probably need their comfort and support for the next three years.

 

[Navy1960]

The first clause of Article I, Section 8, reads, "The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States." This clause, called the General Welfare Clause or the Spending Power Clause, does not grant Congress the power to legislate for the general welfare of the country; that is a power reserved to the states through the Tenth Amendment. Rather, it merely allows Congress to spend federal money for the general welfare. The principle underlying this distinction—the limitation of federal power—eventually inspired the only important disagreement over the meaning of the clause.

In United States v. Butler, 56 S. Ct. 312, 297 U.S. 1, 80 L. Ed. 477 (1936), the U.S. Supreme Court invalidated a federal agricultural spending program because a specific congressional power over agricultural production appeared nowhere in the Constitution
General Welfare legal definition of General Welfare. General Welfare synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

You mean that one Dude? I've seen it used quite a bit, there is actually a SCOTUS decision though on healthcare "rights" granted to prisoners though.

Under the Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution, it has been determined
that prisoners (or inmates) have a constitutional right to adequate health care.1 Texas has
codified society’s requirement to give care to its incarcerated persons, and requires state prisons
to provide health care.2 Under the final HIPAA Privacy rule, identifiable health information
pertaining to “inmates” has been deemed “protected health information,” called “PHI.” Although
excepted in the preliminary rule, the final Privacy Rule protects inmates’ PHI.3 This protection is
further broadened by the loose definition afforded to “inmates.”
http://www.law.uh.edu/healthlaw/perspectives/Privacy/030128HIPAAs.pdf

 

[Oddball]

which is why you respond to numeric facts (in economic threads) and UHC concepts in THIS thread with profound images from the interwebz, eh?



You should probably go hide under the wing of one of your like minded conservatives, dude.. you'll probably need their comfort and support for the next three years.

Yeah, deliberately biased and fudged numbers, and concepts that take passages from the Bible and other sources completely out of context to suit your collectivist authoritarian do-gooder politics.

Not like you're the first hysterical fool I've encountered on the interwebs.

 

[Shogun]

which is why you respond to numeric facts (in economic threads) and UHC concepts in THIS thread with profound images from the interwebz, eh?



You should probably go hide under the wing of one of your like minded conservatives, dude.. you'll probably need their comfort and support for the next three years.

Yeah, deliberately biased and fudged numbers, and concepts that take passages from the Bible and other sources completely out of context to suit your collectivist authoritarian do-gooder politics.

Not like you're the first hysterical fool I've encountered on the interwebs.

oh yea! deficit amounts STRAIT FROM THE FED sure are fudged! It's a big alien liberal CONSPIRACY!




After all.. the words of jesus SURE IS 'fuck the poor. they can't afford heaven"








seriously, dude. I attract a lot of people who react to my posts around here but you, sir, have GOT to be one of the dumbest to come along in a long, long while. I look forward to any and all scripture you care to post that even remotely suggests that Jesus wouldn't have been a socialist. Just so you know, the next versus I bitchslap you with will the when he broke some bread and fishes in order to feed the masses without charging a markup or demanding an interest rate. You see, I am so confident that you are an ignorant fuck that I'm literally TELLING you my rebuttal before you even have to ask for one.