Healthcare For All / Real Solutions

[auditor0007]

I find it very ironic that so many people continue to support the failed system of insurance companies when it comes to our healthcare. A single payer plan, by all means makes the most sense. The whole point is that the insurance industry is just the middle man making huge profits at the expense of both the consumer and the providers.

However, there is another idea. We could allow hospitals and doctors to set up their own networks, providing their own plans that would compete with the insurance companies. Doctors would need to network with certain hospitals, but many already do this. There are some troubles with such a plan, but nothing that can't be worked out. For instance, these networks would also have to include drug plans, and they would have to work out a system of payment for out of network treatment in cases where people are traveling or find themselves in an emergency situation outside of the network.

The government could put everyone on a level playing field by ending the discrimination that exists in pricing by removing group discounts and by making it mandatory for everyone to be accepted that wants to purchase a network plan.

The biggest benefit would be that the middle man would be removed, and most of those costs would be removed. Lastly, there would be some real direct competetion for services, at least in the metropolitan areas.

 

[Oddball]

The first step is to eliminate pipe dream language like "health care for all".

The best thing gubmint can do is get the hell out from in between providers and end customers.

The only "level playing field" politicians and bureaucrats ever end up providing is equality in mediocrity.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I don't want nor need healthcare insurance. I pay all my medical expenses in cash. So you can take your health insurance and stick it up Obama's ass.

 

[auditor0007]

I don't want nor need healthcare insurance. I pay all my medical expenses in cash. So you can take your health insurance and stick it up Obama's ass.

Good for you. You are obviously a multi-millionaire then. Most of us are not. When you are diagnosed with leukemia and need a stem cell transplant along with all of the other care necessary, then you won't complain about the $1.5 million cost.

Of course, if you don't have that money up front, they will not treat you. So if you aren't a multi-millionaire and are not self-insured, then you're just an idiot. Actually, your an idiot anyway, because being individually self-insured makes no sense at all. You'd be a moron not to at least carry catastophic insurance with a very high deductible.

So basically, your statement is worthless to the discussion, but thanks for trying.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

The government could put everyone on a level playing field by ending the discrimination that exists in pricing by removing group discounts and by making it mandatory for everyone to be accepted that wants to purchase a network plan.

You mean kinda like how the Federal Government mandated banks make home loans to indviduals that weren't creditworthy? how well did that one work out?

Where do you think the Federal Government derives any authority to tell privately owned businesses who they must do business with and the terms of the transaction? Would it be ok if the government mandated that you must allow any individual to stay in your home for whatever price they were willing to pay just because the individual wanted to? The constitution does not grant the federal government the authority to out and out steal from private companies no matter how altruistic anybody thinks the objective of the theft may be.

Healthcare is not a constitutionally protected right, therfor it's a priviledge which one must earn in order to recieve and stealing from your fellow citizens doesn't constitute earning it.

 

[Oddball]

Good for you. You are obviously a multi-millionaire then. Most of us are not. When you are diagnosed with leukemia and need a stem cell transplant along with all of the other care necessary, then you won't complain about the $1.5 million cost.

Of course, if you don't have that money up front, they will not treat you. So if you aren't a multi-millionaire and are not self-insured, then you're just an idiot. Actually, your an idiot anyway, because being individually self-insured makes no sense at all. You'd be a moron not to at least carry catastophic insurance with a very high deductible.

So basically, your statement is worthless to the discussion, but thanks for trying.

Of course, you conveniently ignore how Medicare/Medicaid, the FDA, and a slew of other gubmint mandates have driven up those costs.

And doing more of what has already failed to contain costs is supposed to contain costs in what way??

 

[gravity]

The government could put everyone on a level playing field by ending the discrimination that exists in pricing by removing group discounts and by making it mandatory for everyone to be accepted that wants to purchase a network plan.

You mean kinda like how the Federal Government mandated banks make home loans to indviduals that weren't creditworthy? how well did that one work out?

Let's examine:

The Federal Government mandating banks make home loans to individuals that aren't creditworthy vs. people continuing to rent / stay in their current homes / live with family or friends.

The Federal Government mandating health care providers provide health care to individuals that aren't healthworthy vs. people continuing to suffer and die.

I see a difference.

 

[Oddball]

Let's examine:

The Federal Government mandating banks make home loans to individuals that aren't creditworthy vs. people continuing to rent / stay in their current homes / live with family or friends.

The Federal Government mandating health care providers provide health care to individuals that aren't healthworthy vs. people continuing to suffer and die.

I see a difference.

Right...And under the medical fascism model, gubmint bureaucrats will be the ones deciding who is "healthworty" and who isn't.

Hope that makes you feel better.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

The government could put everyone on a level playing field by ending the discrimination that exists in pricing by removing group discounts and by making it mandatory for everyone to be accepted that wants to purchase a network plan.

You mean kinda like how the Federal Government mandated banks make home loans to indviduals that weren't creditworthy? how well did that one work out?

Let's examine:

The Federal Government mandating banks make home loans to individuals that aren't creditworthy vs. people continuing to rent / stay in their current homes / live with family or friends.

The Federal Government mandating health care providers provide health care to individuals that aren't healthworthy vs. people continuing to suffer and die.

I see a difference.

Actually you don't because there isn't one, it's a mirage planted in your mind by government propaganda. Theft by force is still theft by force, doesn't matter what the rational is behind your theft is or who you decide to steal from, it's still theft.

 

[gravity]

Let's examine:

The Federal Government mandating banks make home loans to individuals that aren't creditworthy vs. people continuing to rent / stay in their current homes / live with family or friends.

The Federal Government mandating health care providers provide health care to individuals that aren't healthworthy vs. people continuing to suffer and die.

I see a difference.

Right...And under the medical fascism model, gubmint bureaucrats will be the ones deciding who is "healthworty" and who isn't.

Hope that makes you feel better.

And as we live within a great democratic process in the United States, we choose who governs us. I do feel much better about that.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I don't want nor need healthcare insurance. I pay all my medical expenses in cash. So you can take your health insurance and stick it up Obama's ass.

Good for you. You are obviously a multi-millionaire then. Most of us are not. When you are diagnosed with leukemia and need a stem cell transplant along with all of the other care necessary, then you won't complain about the $1.5 million cost.

Of course, if you don't have that money up front, they will not treat you. So if you aren't a multi-millionaire and are not self-insured, then you're just an idiot. Actually, your an idiot anyway, because being individually self-insured makes no sense at all. You'd be a moron not to at least carry catastophic insurance with a very high deductible.

So basically, your statement is worthless to the discussion, but thanks for trying.

If I get any type of cancer, then I'll probably die. But hey, we're not meant to live forever. Health insurance is a scam and you're an idiot for not realizing it. I raised three kids to the age of majority without health insurance, I came from humble beginnings after dropping out of school at 15 and spending almost three years in a Texas state prison, I've done pretty damn well for myself and I don't need you nor the govt. telling me what the fuck I need. And your comment was as worthless as tits on a boar hog, but thanks for playing!

 

[Oddball]

And as we live within a great democratic process in the United States, we choose who governs us. I do feel much better about that.

That's your problem.

By what authority do you presuppose that what makes you feel good should be forced upon everyone else, at gunpoint if necessary, tovarich??

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

Let's examine:

The Federal Government mandating banks make home loans to individuals that aren't creditworthy vs. people continuing to rent / stay in their current homes / live with family or friends.

The Federal Government mandating health care providers provide health care to individuals that aren't healthworthy vs. people continuing to suffer and die.

I see a difference.

Right...And under the medical fascism model, gubmint bureaucrats will be the ones deciding who is "healthworty" and who isn't.

Hope that makes you feel better.

And as we live within a great democratic process in the United States, we choose who governs us. I do feel much better about that.

So your arguement seems to be that it's okay to steal freedom and property from the citizenry as long as the majority agrees with it, is that correct?

 

[dilloduck]

The government could put everyone on a level playing field by ending the discrimination that exists in pricing by removing group discounts and by making it mandatory for everyone to be accepted that wants to purchase a network plan.

You mean kinda like how the Federal Government mandated banks make home loans to indviduals that weren't creditworthy? how well did that one work out?

Let's examine:

The Federal Government mandating banks make home loans to individuals that aren't creditworthy vs. people continuing to rent / stay in their current homes / live with family or friends.

The Federal Government mandating health care providers provide health care to individuals that aren't healthworthy vs. people continuing to suffer and die.

I see a difference.

People will suffer and die forever--nothing will change that. You may wanna drop that one out of your arsenal.

 

[auditor0007]

The government could put everyone on a level playing field by ending the discrimination that exists in pricing by removing group discounts and by making it mandatory for everyone to be accepted that wants to purchase a network plan.

You mean kinda like how the Federal Government mandated banks make home loans to indviduals that weren't creditworthy? how well did that one work out?

Where do you think the Federal Government derives any authority to tell privately owned businesses who they must do business with and the terms of the transaction? Would it be ok if the government mandated that you must allow any individual to stay in your home for whatever price they were willing to pay just because the individual wanted to? The constitution does not grant the federal government the authority to out and out steal from private companies no matter how altruistic anybody thinks the objective of the theft may be.

Healthcare is not a constitutionally protected right, therfor it's a priviledge which one must earn in order to recieve and stealing from your fellow citizens doesn't constitute earning it.

The more I see these types of responses, the more I understand how little understanding some of you have of reality. The idea that government basically has no purpose and should not be involved with private business at all is absurd. Without government, companies would still force workers to work 80 hours per week with minimal compensation. Safety standards would be non-existent. Companies would be dumping toxins anywhere and everywhere they wanted to.

When it comes to healthcare, private insurance companies do anything they can to not cover people who have health issues. Most people develop health issues through no fault of their own. In a civilized society, it is societies obligation to make certain those who want access to healthcare will have it at a reasonable price, reasonable being what anyone else would pay.

In our system, if someone is sick, the only way they can get medical treatment is if they can pay four or five times what a healthy person pays. That is discrimination at it's finest, and so yes, government intervention is necessary. Hipaa was instituted for this exact reason. Unfortunately, it didn't go far enough and still leaves many people outside the loop.

You people who constantly argue against any changes or government involvement would be the first to scream bloody murder if you were denied coverage due to circumstances outside of your control. That is what I find so damn amusing. Everything changes when you are the one left out in the dark, but so long as the system works for you right now, all is fine. You completely lack vision of what could also happen to you, or the issues this raises for those already being screwed by this system.

For some of you, you think we should just scrap everything and make everyone pay out of pocket. That idea is about as stupid as it gets. Sure costs would drop, but most people would never be able to afford to pay for their healthcare in the event of a catostrophic illness.

Because of your lack of clear thinking, you will eventually end up with the exact thing you don't want, because as more and more are no longer able to afford their own care, they will look toward government for a solution. And that time is just about here.

The lack of any discussion involving realistic solutions that would work for the vast majority just shows how out of the mainstream you actually are. So stick to your idea that we need to get rid of government and see what happens. It's no wonder the Dems are taking control of every aspect of our lives. People are fed up with the mess we're in, so they'll accept anything as an answer because anything must be better than the BS we've been spoon fed lately.

 

[STAND4LIBERTY]

The more I see these types of responses, the more I understand how little understanding some of you have of reality. The idea that government basically has no purpose and should not be involved with private business at all is absurd. Without government, companies would still force workers to work 80 hours per week with minimal compensation. Safety standards would be non-existent. Companies would be dumping toxins anywhere and everywhere they wanted to.

Strawman bullshit, I didn't say anything even approximating that.........

 

[gravity]

And as we live within a great democratic process in the United States, we choose who governs us. I do feel much better about that.

That's your problem.

By what authority do you presuppose that what makes you feel good should be forced upon everyone else, at gunpoint if necessary, tovarich??

Two points:

1) You are talking about 'feeling good' while I am speaking of 'being as healthful as possible'.

2) By the authority of a government of the people who will decide at some point that AVAILABILITY of health care should be ensured for it's citizens.

I guarantee that if you are bleeding to death on a street corner I won't force you to seek health care but I would absolutely help you get an ambulance if you wanted it. I would even pick you up, ruining my clothes and pay for our taxi to the hospital if that's what it took. I wonder if you would do the same for me... Perhaps that is our debate.

 

[auditor0007]

The government could put everyone on a level playing field by ending the discrimination that exists in pricing by removing group discounts and by making it mandatory for everyone to be accepted that wants to purchase a network plan.

You mean kinda like how the Federal Government mandated banks make home loans to indviduals that weren't creditworthy? how well did that one work out?

Let's examine:

The Federal Government mandating banks make home loans to individuals that aren't creditworthy vs. people continuing to rent / stay in their current homes / live with family or friends.

The Federal Government mandating health care providers provide health care to individuals that aren't healthworthy vs. people continuing to suffer and die.

I see a difference.

Unfortunately, ideological thinking, regardless of its mantra, is rarely a great thing when people try to apply it to every single issue.

 

[Oddball]

Two points:

1) You are talking about 'feeling good' while I am speaking of 'being as healthful as possible'.

....At gunpoint, if necessary.

2) By the authority of a government of the people who will decide at some point that AVAILABILITY of health care should be ensured for it's citizens.

Right...If you're a member of the biggest mob, everything is kosher.

Besides that, "availablity" is another one of those bullshit weasel words that translates to "third-party payer".

Face it, you just want everyone else to foot the bill for services rendered to you.

I guarantee that if you are bleeding to death on a street corner I won't force you to seek health care but I would absolutely help you get an ambulance if you wanted it. I would even pick you up, ruining my clothes and pay for our taxi to the hospital if that's what it took. I wonder if you would do the same for me... Perhaps that is our debate.

Nothing in life is guaranteed, Bubba. And, as I already stated, that "bleeding to death in the street" hyperbole is as intellectually disingenuous as you can get.

Life's tough, shit happens, wear a cup and helmet.

 

[auditor0007]

I don't want nor need healthcare insurance. I pay all my medical expenses in cash. So you can take your health insurance and stick it up Obama's ass.

Good for you. You are obviously a multi-millionaire then. Most of us are not. When you are diagnosed with leukemia and need a stem cell transplant along with all of the other care necessary, then you won't complain about the $1.5 million cost.

Of course, if you don't have that money up front, they will not treat you. So if you aren't a multi-millionaire and are not self-insured, then you're just an idiot. Actually, your an idiot anyway, because being individually self-insured makes no sense at all. You'd be a moron not to at least carry catastophic insurance with a very high deductible.

So basically, your statement is worthless to the discussion, but thanks for trying.

If I get any type of cancer, then I'll probably die. But hey, we're not meant to live forever. Health insurance is a scam and you're an idiot for not realizing it. I raised three kids to the age of majority without health insurance, I came from humble beginnings after dropping out of school at 15 and spending almost three years in a Texas state prison, I've done pretty damn well for myself and I don't need you nor the govt. telling me what the fuck I need. And your comment was as worthless as tits on a boar hog, but thanks for playing!

I guess you're lucky that neither you, your wife, or kids never had to face a life threatening illness. I have though. My wife died from leukemia and I have health issues that could shorten my life considerably without the proper care. But as I said before, until it effects you personally, it's no big deal, because again, you completely lack any vision.

Had one of your kids been diagnosed with leukemia, and you been denied treatment for them, tell me you would have been just fine with them dying. Your so full of shit it's coming out every orifice of your body.