Healthcare Bill Hit Parade!!

[oreo]

Frankly I'm happy to see people taking an interest in this thread, it's pretty important, now Valerie let me address your post, while that section deals with US territories is also has zero exclusions which basically means that without exclusions any person residing there will be treated as such. Further one paragraph up from that is the illegal alien clause...

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
6 for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
7 not lawfully present in the United States.

‘‘(2) NONRESIDENT ALIENS.—Subsection (a)
2 shall not apply to any individual who is a non3
resident alien.

So I don't know how to make it more understandable than that. So basically if your a non-resident ALIEN the term NON RESIDENT ALIEN SHALL NOT APPLY!!! thus rendering the previous paragraph mute.

For clarity: It states "NON resident Alien"--I think we're talking about "resident aliens" being covered--aka illegal aliens that do in fact reside in the United States.

 

[oreo]

What idea(s) do you have to bring costs down?

Not the guy you asked but....

1. Repeal the HMO Act of 1973 which requires all but the smallest employers to offer their employees HMO coverage, and the tax code allows businesses, but not individuals, to deduct the cost of health insurance premiums. The result is the insane coupling of employment and health insurance, which often leaves the unemployed without needed catastrophic coverage.

2. Repeal the ERISA Act of 1974 which is a federal law that sets minimum standards for retirement and health benefit plans in private industry. This attracted special interests to insert things from wet nurses to maternity in group plans,these minimal standards have raised costs and took away our freedom to choose the coverage we want as individuals.

3. Introduce legislation that gives tax credits for individuals to buy their own insurance,be it comprehensive or high deductible catastrophic or Medical Savings Accounts.

4. Introduce legislation that gives tax credits for "negative outcomes" insurance that people can purchase prior to an operation that would remove costly litigation yet preserve trial by jury we hold so dear in this country,it could drive down liability costs and the consumer would be able to set the value they want on their property which is their body.

5. Introduce Tax Credits for people who take a large amount of prescription medicine,this could help those in need without creating bureaucracy such as Medicare Part "D". We could also do this for people who take care of their parents or children to relieve burdens.

6. Remove any limitations on Medical Savings type accounts. This would expand access,it's the fastest growing market there is and could grow faster without the constraints govt. places on them.

7. Allow insurance companies to sell nationally and allow all insurance companies to participate, Mutual Companies,non profits,Property and Casualty,you name it,open up the competition.

8. Give huge tax credits to companies wanting to open Doc in a Box type clinics in towns,in the Wal Marts,Wal Greens and Targets nation wide. This would releive pressure on ER rooms, a lot of times a child may get sick late at night and the only place to go is ER,this could alleviate that since these type places are open at night and on weekends.

How you like?

Good ideas, I would like to piggyback and add one thing. I believe a lot of costs we are incurring as a nation are due to obesity rates in America. I don't believe its a coincidence that obesity rates have been exploding here in America and medical costs have been following suit. A fatter America means a sicker America. Obesity leads to disease, its an established medical fact. In order to help promote healthier living we should expand Physical Education programs in schools. As well we should provide tax breaks for weight loss programs.

My daughter is a nurse practitionerwho taught nutrition classes to overweight kids in a wellness center located in a high school. It's just like smoking--there are people addicted to overeating. They don't know when to stop.

Sure--use education & increase physical activity in schools. But in the end game--"you can lead a horse to water--but you can't make them drink."

I don't believe we need to give tax incentives to take care of yourself.

To add--just the health savings plan kind of gives you incentive to do just that in the first place. The less you end up at the doctor's office--the more money stays in your account.

 

[MaggieMae]

Once again Maggie as long as Nancy Pelosi keeps trotting out in front of the camera's and talks about this EXACT bill and democrat members of the house go to the floor and talk about this same bill then I will continue to point out it's terrible sections that apply to all Americans. As long as Pelosi continues to use SICK people to prop up her agenda she and others that support her unamerican agenda will find in me an opponent that is unrelenting. I will not give up on this issue because I wii NOT leave my daughter a 3rd world nation and will defend it against those that want too.

Go for it. But the House of Representatives DOES NOT make law. Pelosi will soon be irrelevant.

Congress has the sole power to legislate for the United States. Under the nondelegation doctrine, Congress may not delegate its lawmaking responsibilities to any other agency. In this vein, the Supreme Court held in the 1998 case Clinton v. City of New York that Congress could not delegate a "line-item veto" to the President, by which he was empowered to selectively nullify certain provisions of a bill before signing it. The Constitution Article I, Section 8; says to give all the power to Congress. Congress has the exclusive power to legislate, to make laws and in addition to the enumerated powers it has all other powers vested in the government by the Constitution.

The President has the responsibility to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution and the Laws of the United States in much the same way as a vassal takes an oath of allegiance to his liege lord. He is delegated authority by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, but the Congress can never give its power away.

Where Congress does not make so great and sweeping a delegation of its authority, the Supreme Court has been less stringent. One of the earliest cases involving the exact limits of non-delegation was Wayman v. Southard (1825). Congress had delegated to the courts the power to prescribe judicial procedure; it was contended that Congress had thereby unconstitutionally clothed the judiciary with legislative powers. While Chief Justice John Marshall conceded that the determination of rules of procedure was a legislative function, he distinguished between "important" subjects and mere details. Marshall wrote that "a general provision may be made, and power given to those who are to act under such general provisions, to fill up the details."

Marshall's words and future court decisions gave Congress much latitude in delegating powers. It was not until the 1930s that the Supreme Court held a delegation of authority unconstitutional. In a case involving the creation of the National Recovery Administration called A.L.A. Schechter Poultry Corp. v. United States, 295 U.S. 495 (1935), Congress could not authorize the President to formulate codes of "fair competition." It was held that Congress must set some standards governing the actions of executive officers. The Court, however, has deemed that phrases such as "just and reasonable," "public interest" and "public convenience" suffice.
Separation of powers under the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'd be interested in knowing who you think makes the laws then? The President by signing legislation presented to him or her by congress? or perhaps the courts that look at laws and rule upon them?

Not talking about other outside agencies, Navy. This is from the US History Encyclopeia.

To enact legislation, both the House and Senate must pass a bill in the same language. If they produce different versions of the bill, they appoint a conference committee to reach a compromise. Each house must then pass the conference report "up or down," with no further amendments. If the president vetoes the bill, Congress may override that veto by a two-thirds vote in each house....A bill will often require many years to make its way successfully to enactment. As cumbersome and frustrating as the process has seemed to activist presidents and reformers of all ideological hues, it reflects the original division of powers that the framers of the Constitution devised. Voters have regularly reinforced those divisions by electing presidents and congressional majorities from different parties, increasing the likeliness of legislative gridlock.

 

[Navy1960]

Frankly I'm happy to see people taking an interest in this thread, it's pretty important, now Valerie let me address your post, while that section deals with US territories is also has zero exclusions which basically means that without exclusions any person residing there will be treated as such. Further one paragraph up from that is the illegal alien clause...

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
6 for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
7 not lawfully present in the United States.

‘‘(2) NONRESIDENT ALIENS.—Subsection (a)
2 shall not apply to any individual who is a non3
resident alien.

So I don't know how to make it more understandable than that. So basically if your a non-resident ALIEN the term NON RESIDENT ALIEN SHALL NOT APPLY!!! thus rendering the previous paragraph mute.

For clarity: It states "NON resident Alien"--I think we're talking about "resident aliens" being covered--aka illegal aliens that do in fact reside in the United States.

oreo, this bill and the one in the Senate both of which I have read, have many passages that make references to qualifications but have no residency requirements. There are however mant references as to what constitutes coverage. The portion you are talking about is self defeating, if the term shall not apply then it is rendered mute, understand?

 

[sealybobo]

Frankly I'm happy to see people taking an interest in this thread, it's pretty important, now Valerie let me address your post, while that section deals with US territories is also has zero exclusions which basically means that without exclusions any person residing there will be treated as such. Further one paragraph up from that is the illegal alien clause...

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments
6 for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are
7 not lawfully present in the United States.

‘‘(2) NONRESIDENT ALIENS.—Subsection (a)
2 shall not apply to any individual who is a non3
resident alien.

So I don't know how to make it more understandable than that. So basically if your a non-resident ALIEN the term NON RESIDENT ALIEN SHALL NOT APPLY!!! thus rendering the previous paragraph mute.

For clarity: It states "NON resident Alien"--I think we're talking about "resident aliens" being covered--aka illegal aliens that do in fact reside in the United States.

oreo, this bill and the one in the Senate both of which I have read, have many passages that make references to qualifications but have no residency requirements. There are however mant references as to what constitutes coverage. The portion you are talking about is self defeating, if the term shall not apply then it is rendered mute, understand?

You read all 1200 pages? If you did you are a fool because its not even ready yet.

PS. If we add the illegals to healthcare, it'll save us money, because we are going to treat them anyways.

Also, if you go to switzerland and break your arm, they'll fix you up. Why you such a cheapass?

I'm beginning to doubt America is the greatest country on earth. Sure it is if you are rich, but middle class? Its getting harder and harder to convince us that we are the best when other countries middle class have so much more.

Better healthcare, job security, benefits, etc. What exactly are we the best at? Oh yea, "freedom".

 

[Navy1960]

Go for it. But the House of Representatives DOES NOT make law. Pelosi will soon be irrelevant.

Congress has the sole power to legislate for the United States. Under the nondelegation doctrine, Congress may not delegate its lawmaking responsibilities to any other agency. In this vein, the Supreme Court held in the 1998 case Clinton v. City of New York that Congress could not delegate a "line-item veto" to the President, by which he was empowered to selectively nullify certain provisions of a bill before signing it. The Constitution Article I, Section 8; says to give all the power to Congress. Congress has the exclusive power to legislate, to make laws and in addition to the enumerated powers it has all other powers vested in the government by the Constitution.

The President has the responsibility to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution and the Laws of the United States in much the same way as a vassal takes an oath of allegiance to his liege lord. He is delegated authority by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, but the Congress can never give its power away.

Where Congress does not make so great and sweeping a delegation of its authority, the Supreme Court has been less stringent. One of the earliest cases involving the exact limits of non-delegation was Wayman v. Southard (1825). Congress had delegated to the courts the power to prescribe judicial procedure; it was contended that Congress had thereby unconstitutionally clothed the judiciary with legislative powers. While Chief Justice John Marshall conceded that the determination of rules of procedure was a legislative function, he distinguished between "important" subjects and mere details. Marshall wrote that "a general provision may be made, and power given to those who are to act under such general provisions, to fill up the details."

Marshall's words and future court decisions gave Congress much latitude in delegating powers. It was not until the 1930s that the Supreme Court held a delegation of authority unconstitutional. In a case involving the creation of the National Recovery Administration called A.L.A. Schechter Poultry Corp. v. United States, 295 U.S. 495 (1935), Congress could not authorize the President to formulate codes of "fair competition." It was held that Congress must set some standards governing the actions of executive officers. The Court, however, has deemed that phrases such as "just and reasonable," "public interest" and "public convenience" suffice.
Separation of powers under the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'd be interested in knowing who you think makes the laws then? The President by signing legislation presented to him or her by congress? or perhaps the courts that look at laws and rule upon them?

Not talking about other outside agencies, Navy. This is from the US History Encyclopeia.

To enact legislation, both the House and Senate must pass a bill in the same language. If they produce different versions of the bill, they appoint a conference committee to reach a compromise. Each house must then pass the conference report "up or down," with no further amendments. If the president vetoes the bill, Congress may override that veto by a two-thirds vote in each house....A bill will often require many years to make its way successfully to enactment. As cumbersome and frustrating as the process has seemed to activist presidents and reformers of all ideological hues, it reflects the original division of powers that the framers of the Constitution devised. Voters have regularly reinforced those divisions by electing presidents and congressional majorities from different parties, increasing the likeliness of legislative gridlock.

What part of my seperation of powers posting led you to believe I was talking about an outside agency Maggie, you made the blanket statement along the lines of congress does not make laws. So I thought it necessary to show you exactly what the seperation of powers is, what you posted just offer further proof that, that's exactly what congress does. While I understand the nature of your point, in that you believe that up until there is a bill that both houses on, there is no point on debating on seperate versions that each house is discusssing, Well I could not disagree with that more, especially considering the fact that , as pointed out earlier, the House as well as the Senate make reference to BOTH of these bills on a daily basis on the floor, and in committee, and when giving press conferences. So until such time as the house and senate stop debating the bills that they are working from , then I will keep posting from the very same bills. When they exit from committee with a bill that both houses have voted on, I will discuss that one too. I do respect your opinion though Maggie

 

[PixieStix]

Has anyone watched this video?

YouTube - ObamaCare Yay Or Nay? The Truth About Canada!

Hot Air » Blog Archive » Video: Crowder’s magnum opus on CanadaCare

Please KILL me now Obama. Don't wait.

Thanks for posting the video Terri

 

[Navy1960]

For clarity: It states "NON resident Alien"--I think we're talking about "resident aliens" being covered--aka illegal aliens that do in fact reside in the United States.

oreo, this bill and the one in the Senate both of which I have read, have many passages that make references to qualifications but have no residency requirements. There are however mant references as to what constitutes coverage. The portion you are talking about is self defeating, if the term shall not apply then it is rendered mute, understand?

You read all 1200 pages? If you did you are a fool because its not even ready yet.

PS. If we add the illegals to healthcare, it'll save us money, because we are going to treat them anyways.

Also, if you go to switzerland and break your arm, they'll fix you up. Why you such a cheapass?

I'm beginning to doubt America is the greatest country on earth. Sure it is if you are rich, but middle class? Its getting harder and harder to convince us that we are the best when other countries middle class have so much more.

Better healthcare, job security, benefits, etc. What exactly are we the best at? Oh yea, "freedom".

I did actually sealy, and I thought it very important to know where congress is starting from because if they intend to take my tax dollars to pay for others healthcare I would like to know what they intend to do with it. It's called being informed. As for Switzerland, I don't intend to travel there anytime soon so I don't see that as a possibility, I have done most of the world travel in my lifetime sealy I ever intend to do. You know sealy, I honestly believe that if people in this nation spent a whole lot less time complaining and expecting things, and going out making their own ways in life then all of us would be much better off. Yes, your going to fail , thats the price of getting to the top, you learn from those failures. You know sealy, when I retired from the Navy, I had no idea what I was going to do with myself because the military is all I had ever known. At first I thought, I might try the commercial airline thing for a bit, but decided that was not for me. I looked and looked and looked and became very discouraged at times, however I kept trying until eventually ended up with my own business and am quite happy. The moral of this story is sealy is that , anyone in this nation can do for themselves if they want if bad enough. It's only when you give up and start to depend on others for your needs do you start to expect things from them. It's easy to point a finger at someone and say " look at them they have this and that and I don't" however it's a whole lot harder to go out and get those things for yourself. You know though in the end, your life will be much richer and more fulfilled when you do. Thats what this nation is really built on sealy, people who don't look to their neighbors and say I want you to give me what you have, but rather, say I'm going to go out and earn more than what you have for myself and my family. It's our Govts. role to provide you with the environment for you to do exactly that, and not to turn you into a slave of expectations. While I respect everyone's opinions , sometimes I think that gets lost these day's on people and it's time we all stopped looking to the Govt. for all our needs in life and earning what we have.

 

[Zoom-boing]

oreo, this bill and the one in the Senate both of which I have read, have many passages that make references to qualifications but have no residency requirements. There are however mant references as to what constitutes coverage. The portion you are talking about is self defeating, if the term shall not apply then it is rendered mute, understand?

You read all 1200 pages? If you did you are a fool because its not even ready yet.

PS. If we add the illegals to healthcare, it'll save us money, because we are going to treat them anyways.

Also, if you go to switzerland and break your arm, they'll fix you up. Why you such a cheapass?

I'm beginning to doubt America is the greatest country on earth. Sure it is if you are rich, but middle class? Its getting harder and harder to convince us that we are the best when other countries middle class have so much more.

Better healthcare, job security, benefits, etc. What exactly are we the best at? Oh yea, "freedom".

I did actually sealy, and I thought it very important to know where congress is starting from because if they intend to take my tax dollars to pay for others healthcare I would like to know what they intend to do with it. It's called being informed. As for Switzerland, I don't intend to travel there anytime soon so I don't see that as a possibility, I have done most of the world travel in my lifetime sealy I ever intend to do. You know sealy, I honestly believe that if people in this nation spent a whole lot less time complaining and expecting things, and going out making their own ways in life then all of us would be much better off. Yes, your going to fail , thats the price of getting to the top, you learn from those failures. You know sealy, when I retired from the Navy, I had no idea what I was going to do with myself because the military is all I had ever known. At first I thought, I might try the commercial airline thing for a bit, but decided that was not for me. I looked and looked and looked and became very discouraged at times, however I kept trying until eventually ended up with my own business and am quite happy. The moral of this story is sealy is that , anyone in this nation can do for themselves if they want if bad enough. It's only when you give up and start to depend on others for your needs do you start to expect things from them. It's easy to point a finger at someone and say " look at them they have this and that and I don't" however it's a whole lot harder to go out and get those things for yourself. You know though in the end, your life will be much richer and more fulfilled when you do. Thats what this nation is really built on sealy, people who don't look to their neighbors and say I want you to give me what you have, but rather, say I'm going to go out and earn more than what you have for myself and my family. It's our Govts. role to provide you with the environment for you to do exactly that, and not to turn you into a slave of expectations. While I respect everyone's opinions , sometimes I think that gets lost these day's on people and it's time we all stopped looking to the Govt. for all our needs in life and earning what we have.

 

[sealybobo]

oreo, this bill and the one in the Senate both of which I have read, have many passages that make references to qualifications but have no residency requirements. There are however mant references as to what constitutes coverage. The portion you are talking about is self defeating, if the term shall not apply then it is rendered mute, understand?

You read all 1200 pages? If you did you are a fool because its not even ready yet.

PS. If we add the illegals to healthcare, it'll save us money, because we are going to treat them anyways.

Also, if you go to switzerland and break your arm, they'll fix you up. Why you such a cheapass?

I'm beginning to doubt America is the greatest country on earth. Sure it is if you are rich, but middle class? Its getting harder and harder to convince us that we are the best when other countries middle class have so much more.

Better healthcare, job security, benefits, etc. What exactly are we the best at? Oh yea, "freedom".

I did actually sealy, and I thought it very important to know where congress is starting from because if they intend to take my tax dollars to pay for others healthcare I would like to know what they intend to do with it. It's called being informed. As for Switzerland, I don't intend to travel there anytime soon so I don't see that as a possibility, I have done most of the world travel in my lifetime sealy I ever intend to do. You know sealy, I honestly believe that if people in this nation spent a whole lot less time complaining and expecting things, and going out making their own ways in life then all of us would be much better off. Yes, your going to fail , thats the price of getting to the top, you learn from those failures. You know sealy, when I retired from the Navy, I had no idea what I was going to do with myself because the military is all I had ever known. At first I thought, I might try the commercial airline thing for a bit, but decided that was not for me. I looked and looked and looked and became very discouraged at times, however I kept trying until eventually ended up with my own business and am quite happy. The moral of this story is sealy is that , anyone in this nation can do for themselves if they want if bad enough. It's only when you give up and start to depend on others for your needs do you start to expect things from them. It's easy to point a finger at someone and say " look at them they have this and that and I don't" however it's a whole lot harder to go out and get those things for yourself. You know though in the end, your life will be much richer and more fulfilled when you do. Thats what this nation is really built on sealy, people who don't look to their neighbors and say I want you to give me what you have, but rather, say I'm going to go out and earn more than what you have for myself and my family. It's our Govts. role to provide you with the environment for you to do exactly that, and not to turn you into a slave of expectations. While I respect everyone's opinions , sometimes I think that gets lost these day's on people and it's time we all stopped looking to the Govt. for all our needs in life and earning what we have.

Everything you are saying is just right wing spin.

Our healthcare problem isn't that too many people are "complaining and expecting things". Other than we expect to get what we pay for, and we expect not to be taken advantage of. We're paying more and getting less than other nations. What don't you get about that?

That's nothing but a right wing argument and I thought you were above that sort of thing.

See, you are a business owner and we are workers. I don't ever expect you to see things from the Democratic point of view. I'm not buying anything you have to sell.

And I have insurance. I'm not afraid my costs are going to go up a little to pay for people who aren't covered. I also know that many of the problems with our health insurance might actually happen to me someday. What I hear happening to millions of Americans is unacceptable to me.

You think America not getting good ROI on our healthcare is what makes us great and free? You seem to suggest that America is great because companies are free to take advantage of consumers. This is a monopoly and you know it. And you are worried that the alternative won't be as good and will cost more? Obama said, "you just want the devil you know because you are afraid of the devil you don't know. That's your position, bottom line.

And you said again, "anyone in this nation can do for themselves if they want if bad enough". What's that got to do with the price of tea in china?

Ok, well I want my healthcare costs to go down and I want MORE from them. Basically, I want what every other citizen in every other country gets.

So either I:

a. Vote in the politicians that will get me what I want
b. Become a CEO or Senator and get the company/government to give it to me
c. Move to Switerland

I'll go with option 1.

 

[Big Black Dog]

Healthcare Bill Hit Parade!!

I don't like the words to the song. I don't like the music. It's impossible to dance to. I would never buy this record!

 

[Navy1960]

Our healthcare problem isn't that too many people are "complaining and expecting things". Other than we expect to get what we pay for, and we expect not to be taken advantage of. We're paying more and getting less than other nations. What don't you get about that?

Then why do you look to the Federal Govt. to solve that problem for you, when your better able to solve that problem yourself and closer to home? Your not getting less than other nations, you may think you are based on what you have been told, but the reality of the situation is very different. You know on the on the business owner, thing, I submit to you this. Not everyone that owns a business is an elitist and has it in for the poor working guy. In fact, I have several people that work for me and value each of them like family. When my business is profitable they are profitable and so am I, and visa-versa when it comes to the bad times. I submit to you sealy it's you who are closed minded because often times small business owners are people that started out in the factory floor and got tired of working for someone else and decided to be their own boss and in doing so, have not only provided a life for themselves and their families but for others as well. The bottom line is when I see others look to the Govt. and complain that they don't have this and they don;t have that and then blame others because they don't and expect it. It tells me that they have no desire to make a difference and go get the things in life that will make it better for themselves. Of course you don't want to be taken advantage of, no one does, but you sealy thats up to you! not some nameless faceless entity to do that for you. I suppose thats the real difference between our thinking here, in that I have never looked upon the Govt. as place that is to punish people for not providing me with what I needed, but rather an entity that should create an environment thats abundant enough for me to seek out what it is in life I want. Don't take that as my lack of not respecting your opinion as I repect everyone's opinion and their right to voice it, even if I may not agree with it.

 

[jreeves]

You read all 1200 pages? If you did you are a fool because its not even ready yet.

PS. If we add the illegals to healthcare, it'll save us money, because we are going to treat them anyways.

Also, if you go to switzerland and break your arm, they'll fix you up. Why you such a cheapass?

I'm beginning to doubt America is the greatest country on earth. Sure it is if you are rich, but middle class? Its getting harder and harder to convince us that we are the best when other countries middle class have so much more.

Better healthcare, job security, benefits, etc. What exactly are we the best at? Oh yea, "freedom".

I did actually sealy, and I thought it very important to know where congress is starting from because if they intend to take my tax dollars to pay for others healthcare I would like to know what they intend to do with it. It's called being informed. As for Switzerland, I don't intend to travel there anytime soon so I don't see that as a possibility, I have done most of the world travel in my lifetime sealy I ever intend to do. You know sealy, I honestly believe that if people in this nation spent a whole lot less time complaining and expecting things, and going out making their own ways in life then all of us would be much better off. Yes, your going to fail , thats the price of getting to the top, you learn from those failures. You know sealy, when I retired from the Navy, I had no idea what I was going to do with myself because the military is all I had ever known. At first I thought, I might try the commercial airline thing for a bit, but decided that was not for me. I looked and looked and looked and became very discouraged at times, however I kept trying until eventually ended up with my own business and am quite happy. The moral of this story is sealy is that , anyone in this nation can do for themselves if they want if bad enough. It's only when you give up and start to depend on others for your needs do you start to expect things from them. It's easy to point a finger at someone and say " look at them they have this and that and I don't" however it's a whole lot harder to go out and get those things for yourself. You know though in the end, your life will be much richer and more fulfilled when you do. Thats what this nation is really built on sealy, people who don't look to their neighbors and say I want you to give me what you have, but rather, say I'm going to go out and earn more than what you have for myself and my family. It's our Govts. role to provide you with the environment for you to do exactly that, and not to turn you into a slave of expectations. While I respect everyone's opinions , sometimes I think that gets lost these day's on people and it's time we all stopped looking to the Govt. for all our needs in life and earning what we have.

Everything you are saying is just right wing spin. Our healthcare problem isn't that too many people are "complaining and expecting things". Other than we expect to get what we pay for, and we expect not to be taken advantage of. We're paying more and getting less than other nations. What don't you get about that?

That's nothing but a right wing argument and I thought you were above that sort of thing.

See, you are a business owner and we are workers. I don't ever expect you to see things from the Democratic point of view. I'm not buying anything you have to sell.

And I have insurance. I'm not afraid my costs are going to go up a little to pay for people who aren't covered. I also know that many of the problems with our health insurance might actually happen to me someday. What I hear happening to millions of Americans is unacceptable to me.

You think America not getting good ROI on our healthcare is what makes us great and free? You seem to suggest that America is great because companies are free to take advantage of consumers. This is a monopoly and you know it. And you are worried that the alternative won't be as good and will cost more? Obama said, "you just want the devil you know because you are afraid of the devil you don't know. That's your position, bottom line.

And you said again, "anyone in this nation can do for themselves if they want if bad enough". What's that got to do with the price of tea in china?

Ok, well I want my healthcare costs to go down and I want MORE from them. Basically, I want what every other citizen in every other country gets.

So either I:

a. Vote in the politicians that will get me what I want
b. Become a CEO or Senator and get the company/government to give it to me
c. Move to Switerland

I'll go with option 1.

Yes providing for your family and yourself is just right wing spin.