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It's a little known fact that before this law was passed, there wasn't an employer mandate. In fact, there still isn't until 2014. For all the years employer-based coverage has dominated health insurance in the United States, there hasn't been an employer mandate. If you dropped coverage for your employees any time in the past, there was no fine at all levied on you. Not a "negligible" $2,000 per employee fine (and following that characterization of the fine, I'd hope not to see future threads from you about how terrible a burden this fine is for businesses), no fine at all.
Why do you think employers offered coverage in the past and offer it today?
Quantum Windbag,
Your inability to express yourself using appropriate language is not excusable. With no cause that I discern, you described me as a liar. If not by first grade, our society expects more mature behavior from our children before they leave the second grade of elementary school. Even if you had no one to instruct you, intelligent children absorb civility as they mature. I suppose your mother tried to raise you better. Parents try but some children refuse to learn.
Wow, talk about dense. Didn't you argue that preventative tests are going to reduce costs? Why does everyone have to pay more if costs are reduced? Could it possibly be because the idea that preventative tests do not reduce overall costs if they are applied en masse to everyone?
Quantum Windbag,
.............. Your inability to express yourself using appropriate language is not excusable. With no cause that I discern, you described me as a liar. If not by first grade, our society expects more mature behavior from our children before they leave the second grade of elementary school. Even if you had no one to instruct you, intelligent children absorb civility as they mature. I suppose your mother tried to raise you better. Parents try but some children refuse to learn.
................ Please point to where I said I was being dumped.
Exactly. It's part of the benefit package and is relatively more attractive (generally to employers and employees alike) than equivalent wages because of the tax treatment of employer-sponsored health insurance benefits. The notion that you can simply ax health benefits to save money ignores the fact that they're part of the employee's compensation package and eliminating the health benefit would require raising wages to compensate.
Quantum Windbag,
.................... Your inability to express yourself using appropriate language is not excusable. With no cause that I discern, you described me as a liar. If not by first grade, our society expects more mature behavior from our children before they leave the second grade of elementary school. Even if you had no one to instruct you, intelligent children absorb civility as they mature. I suppose your mother tried to raise you better. Parents try but some children refuse to learn.
....................... I am going to loose my coverage, which I shopped long and hard for, because the terms of the plan I like will cost me more than they are worth to me, because the company is going to be forced to accept everyone who applies, regardless of their risk, and regardless of preexisting conditions. that wonderful idea will raise my costs, even though I do not have those conditions, and specifically understand that if it suddenly turns out that I have a long term disease that I do not know about, it is not their responsibility to cover it. Since I actually have a problem that might flare up, that predates my purchase of the policy, their potential liability has now increased based on what they already know about me, just like it has for anyone who has ever had chicken pox.
Quantum Windbag,
.................... Your inability to express yourself using appropriate language is not excusable. With no cause that I discern, you described me as a liar. If not by first grade, our society expects more mature behavior from our children before they leave the second grade of elementary school. Even if you had no one to instruct you, intelligent children absorb civility as they mature. I suppose your mother tried to raise you better. Parents try but some children refuse to learn.
....................... I am going to loose my coverage, which I shopped long and hard for, because the terms of the plan I like will cost me more than they are worth to me, because the company is going to be forced to accept everyone who applies, regardless of their risk, and regardless of preexisting conditions. that wonderful idea will raise my costs, even though I do not have those conditions, and specifically understand that if it suddenly turns out that I have a long term disease that I do not know about, it is not their responsibility to cover it. Since I actually have a problem that might flare up, that predates my purchase of the policy, their potential liability has now increased based on what they already know about me, just like it has for anyone who has ever had chicken pox.
This entire paragraph is irrelative to the topic of this thread which is regulations prohibiting insurers requiring co-payments for specified preventive medical procedures.
For example, many observers point to cases in which a simple medical test, if given early enough, can reveal a condition that is treatable at a fraction of the cost of treating that same illness after it has progressed. In such cases, an ounce of prevention improves health and reduces spending—for that individual. But when analyzing the effects of preventive care on total spending for health care, it is important to recognize that doctors do not know beforehand which patients are going to develop costly illnesses. To avert one case of acute illness, it is usually necessary to provide preventive care to many patients, most of whom would not have suffered that illness anyway. Even when the unit cost of a particular preventive service is low, costs can accumulate quickly when a large number of patients are treated preventively. Judging the overall effect on medical spending requires analysts to calculate not just the savings from the relatively few individuals who would avoid more expensive treatment later, but also the costs for the many who would make greater use of preventive care.
The CBO exposed the prevenative testing lie Obama was preaching to sell the healthcare plan. Prevenative testing increases the overall cost far more than any savings from early diagnosis of expensive illness.
For example, many observers point to cases in which a simple medical test, if given early enough, can reveal a condition that is treatable at a fraction of the cost of treating that same illness after it has progressed. In such cases, an ounce of prevention improves health and reduces spendingfor that individual. But when analyzing the effects of preventive care on total spending for health care, it is important to recognize that doctors do not know beforehand which patients are going to develop costly illnesses. To avert one case of acute illness, it is usually necessary to provide preventive care to many patients, most of whom would not have suffered that illness anyway. Even when the unit cost of a particular preventive service is low, costs can accumulate quickly when a large number of patients are treated preventively. Judging the overall effect on medical spending requires analysts to calculate not just the savings from the relatively few individuals who would avoid more expensive treatment later, but also the costs for the many who would make greater use of preventive care.
Greenbeard perversely argues that a government program which has no mandate to be self sustaining...
.................Personally I would get rid of the tax benefit
(and the legal mandate upon employers?) ..................
Greenbeard perversely argues that a government program which has no mandate to be self sustaining...
You mean other than its statutory mandate to be self-sustaining?
I'll show you my relevant legislative text if you show me yours.
Proving what? Do you say that SS was not designed to be an "insurance program" and self sustaining?
Of course it will. And just so we all know who is going to administer this Obamanation:
Berwick is the CMS administrator. This story is primarily about commercial insurance plans. Two different domains.
"at no cost".
I love it. Absolutely nothing comes for no cost. Anywhere. For anything. For any reason.
That means no cost-sharing at the point of care. If you're getting evidence-based preventive care, you won't be charged a copay or pay coinsurance. It's designed, obviously, to encourage people to take advantage of preventive care. It doesn't mean they're no longer paying premiums for their insurance.
The first cut in the execution of the private health care industry.
And done by unconstitutional presidential fiat no less! How peachy is that shit?
This provision is in the text of the law (SEC. 2713. COVERAGE OF PREVENTIVE HEALTH SERVICES). Rulemaking is always done because legislation instructs the Secretary to do so in administering a given piece of a law, its not unconstitutional nor is it simply done on a whim.
The simple fact that is the AMA, and many other groups, are coming down against routine screening of everyone for everything because unnecessary testing drives up health insurance costs, yet you are trying to argue this is going to save me money. It is a lot more cost effective to base testing on a risk screening than on age.
Quantum Windbag,
. . . excepted from: http://www.ahrq.gov/clinic/uspstfab.htm :
The U.S. Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF), first convened by the U.S. Public Health Service in 1984, and since 1998 sponsored by the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ), is the leading independent panel of private-sector experts in prevention and primary care. The USPSTF conducts rigorous, impartial assessments of the scientific evidence for the effectiveness of a broad range of clinical preventive services, including screening, counseling, and preventive medications. Its recommendations are considered the "gold standard" for clinical preventive services.
The mission of the USPSTF is to evaluate the benefits of individual services based on age, gender, and risk factors for disease; make recommendations about which preventive services should be incorporated routinely into primary medical care and for which populations; and identify a research agenda for clinical preventive care.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
The preventive medical procedures recommended by the USPSTF are based upon more factors than the just patients ages. The procedures were recommended with regard to their cost, the medical risks integral to the procedures themselves, the tests ability to decrease the aggregate net long term expenses of our government, the insurers, the insurance purchasers and patients. Theres also some consideration for extending the quality of life and life spans.
No one is mandating that anyone submit to e tests but as a taxpayer Im opposed to greater government expense because someone who has medical insurance but is unwilling or unable to co-pay for one of the recommended preventive medical procedures.
Respectfully, Supposn
WASHINGTON The White House on Wednesday issued new rules requiring health insurance companies to provide free coverage for dozens of screenings, laboratory tests and other types of preventive care.
. . . The new requirements promise significant benefits for consumers if they take advantage of the services that should now be more readily available and affordable.
