Health Outcomes in Canada v US

[Old Rocks]

Well you identified him then skipped the isolate step and went straight to marginalizing him.

That wont work




My friend Brandon from Canada and I were talking on a car forum earlier (i work with cars and its my other passion) and he brought up our health care debate.

He said to me "Yeah well i broke my neck 2 years ago and it only cost me $1000.00 to get it fixed at the hospital....in america what would it have cost $100,000 or $200,000 or what?"

I told him if I had broke my neck it would have cost me the $100 ER co-pay and then the insurance would have paid the rest for me.

He was like WHAT!?!!?!?!

What did your Canadian friend spend $1,000. for? They have no copay.

Without health insurance, in the US a person who has suffered a broken kneck could go bankrupt.

Over 50% of those in America that go banrupt due to medical bills have insurance. I had an 80% coverage from my employer with a max out of pocket of $20,000. My wife had two major surgeries in a space of 10 months. In differant years. And, in the next year, my daughter had major orthedontal surgery. That took all of my extra money for over six years. Had I not had a good paying job, I could easily have gone bankrupt.

 

[Chris]

American businesses go bankrupt paying for healthcare as well.

 

[Bfgrn]

More info:

Hoover Institution - Hoover Digest - Here’s a Second Opinion

Medical care in the United States is derided as miserable compared to health care systems in the rest of the developed world. Economists, government officials, insurers, and academics beat the drum for a far larger government role in health care. Much of the public assumes that their arguments are sound because the calls for change are so ubiquitous and the topic so complex. Before we turn to government as the solution, however, we should consider some unheralded facts about America’s health care system.

1. Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers. Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the United Kingdom and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.

2. Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians. Breast cancer mortality in Canada is 9 percent higher than in the United States, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher, and colon cancer among men is about 10 percent higher.

3. Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries. Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit from statin drugs, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease, are taking them. By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent of Germans, 23 percent of Britons, and 17 percent of Italians receive them.

4. Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians. Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate, and colon cancer:

Nine out of ten middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a mammogram, compared to fewer than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent).

Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a Pap smear, compared to fewer than 90 percent of Canadians.

More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a prostatespecific antigen (PSA) test, compared to fewer than one in six Canadians (16 percent).

Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with fewer than one in twenty Canadians (5 percent).
5. Lower-income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians. Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes self-report “excellent” health (11.7 percent) compared to Canadian seniors (5.8 percent). Conversely, white, young Canadian adults with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than lower-income Americans to describe their health as “fair or poor.”

6. Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the United Kingdom. Canadian and British patients wait about twice as long—sometimes more than a year—to see a specialist, have elective surgery such as hip replacements, or get radiation treatment for cancer. All told, 827,429 people are waiting for some type of procedure in Canada. In Britain, nearly 1.8 million people are waiting for a hospital admission or outpatient treatment.

7. People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed. More than 70 percent of German, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and British adults say their health system needs either “fundamental change” or “complete rebuilding.”

8. Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians. When asked about their own health care instead of the “health care system,” more than half of Americans (51.3 percent) are very satisfied with their health care services, compared with only 41.5 percent of Canadians; a lower proportion of Americans are dissatisfied (6.8 percent) than Canadians (8.5 percent).

9. Americans have better access to important new technologies such as medical imaging than do patients in Canada or Britain. An overwhelming majority of leading American physicians identify computerized tomography (CT) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) as the most important medical innovations for improving patient care during the previous decade—even as economists and policy makers unfamiliar with actual medical practice decry these techniques as wasteful. The United States has thirty-four CT scanners per million Americans, compared to twelve in Canada and eight in Britain. The United States has almost twenty-seven MRI machines per million people compared to about six per million in Canada and Britain.

10. Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations. The top five U.S. hospitals conduct more clinical trials than all the hospitals in any other developed country. Since the mid- 1970s, the Nobel Prize in medicine or physiology has gone to U.S. residents more often than recipients from all other countries combined. In only five of the past thirty-four years did a scientist living in the United States not win or share in the prize. Most important recent medical innovations were developed in the United States.

Despite serious challenges, such as escalating costs and care for the uninsured, the U.S. health care system compares favorably to those in other developed countries.

For notes, charts and other stuff:

http://www.[B]ncpa[/B].org/pub/ba649

The National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA) is an American non-profit conservative think tank partially financed by the insurance industry. NCPA states that its goal is to develop and promote private alternatives to government regulation and control, solving problems by relying on the strength of the competitive, entrepreneurial private sector. Topics include reforms in health care, taxes, Social Security, welfare, education and environmental regulation.

The NCPA was founded by its current president, John C. Goodman, in 1983. Its first offices were at the University of Dallas. It now has a Dallas office and a Washington, D.C. office. Its revenue in 2006 was $5.1 million. The NCPA website says that 62% of its income comes from foundations, 21% from corporations, and 17% from individuals. Its foundation sponsors include the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, the Sarah Scaife Foundation, the Earhart Foundation and the Armstrong Foundation.

In 2007, the NCPA compiled a point-by-point rebuttal to Michael Moore's film Sicko.

John C. Goodman is a libertarian economist and founder and president of the Dallas based, conservative think-tank the National Center for Policy Analysis. The Wall Street Journal called Goodman the "father of Health Savings Accounts.

He is the author of nine books, including Patient Power: The Free-Enterprise Alternative to Clinton's Health Plan (ISBN 1-882577-10-8) which was instrumental in defeating Hillary Clinton's health care plan in 1993.
wiki

 

[Harry Dresden]

Stossel is a libertarian hack.
A libertarian is a republican who wants to smoke dope and get laid.

everybody is a hack to you Junky.... unless of course you agree with them......then they are the experts....

 

[Immanuel]

Even if Canada has succeeded in developing a somewhat decent form of Universal Healthcare, it does not by any stretch of the imagination mean that Washington can. Washington might have succeeded at some point decades ago, but not with the corrupt individuals who reside there today. No way, no how.

Immie

 

[Harry Dresden]

Our system sucks, pure and simple. It is incredibly expensive and immoral.

Other countries have better systems especially the French and the Swedes.

how about Freedonia Chris....do they have a better system....just wondering...

 

[Harry Dresden]

Our system sucks, pure and simple. It is incredibly expensive and immoral.

Other countries have better systems especially the French and the Swedes.

That is what the stats say.

hey Chris look.....you got a fan....

 

[Harry Dresden]

My friend Brandon from Canada and I were talking on a car forum earlier (i work with cars and its my other passion) and he brought up our health care debate.

He said to me "Yeah well i broke my neck 2 years ago and it only cost me $1000.00 to get it fixed at the hospital....in america what would it have cost $100,000 or $200,000 or what?"

I told him if I had broke my neck it would have cost me the $100 ER co-pay and then the insurance would have paid the rest for me.

He was like WHAT!?!!?!?!

same with me with Blue Shield....aint it great.....the govt plan would have said forget it your to costly.....but hey if you wanna sign some property over to us....

 

[Harry Dresden]

American businesses go bankrupt paying for healthcare as well.

even in Freedonia?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Even if Canada has succeeded in developing a somewhat decent form of Universal Healthcare, it does not by any stretch of the imagination mean that Washington can. Washington might have succeeded at some point decades ago, but not with the corrupt individuals who reside there today. No way, no how.

Immie

Canada also has 30 million people to cover.....theres 38 million in California alone...

 

[Immanuel]

My friend Brandon from Canada and I were talking on a car forum earlier (i work with cars and its my other passion) and he brought up our health care debate.

He said to me "Yeah well i broke my neck 2 years ago and it only cost me $1000.00 to get it fixed at the hospital....in america what would it have cost $100,000 or $200,000 or what?"

I told him if I had broke my neck it would have cost me the $100 ER co-pay and then the insurance would have paid the rest for me.

He was like WHAT!?!!?!?!

same with me with Blue Shield....aint it great.....the govt plan would have said forget it your to costly.....but hey if you wanna sign some property over to us....

No, they would ask you if you had signed your donor card and then ask you if you had had any end of life counseling as you have now become a drain on society. Then if you had a large enough estate, they would tax over half of your estate away from you anyway.

Immie

 

[Harry Dresden]

My friend Brandon from Canada and I were talking on a car forum earlier (i work with cars and its my other passion) and he brought up our health care debate.

He said to me "Yeah well i broke my neck 2 years ago and it only cost me $1000.00 to get it fixed at the hospital....in america what would it have cost $100,000 or $200,000 or what?"

I told him if I had broke my neck it would have cost me the $100 ER co-pay and then the insurance would have paid the rest for me.

He was like WHAT!?!!?!?!

same with me with Blue Shield....aint it great.....the govt plan would have said forget it your to costly.....but hey if you wanna sign some property over to us....

No, they would ask you if you had signed your donor card and then ask you if you had had any end of life counseling as you have now become a drain on society. Then if you had a large enough estate, they would tax over half of your estate away from you anyway.

Immie

and there you have it folks.....

 

[Chris]

I love how the right lies.

Every other industialized nation has a national healthcare system and they pay HALF per capita what we pay for healthcare. Why? Because they don't have to pay admin costs, marketing costs, and profit for 150 different insurance companies.

In America the rich get great healthcare, and the poor get no healthcare until they are at death's door.

Is this a great country or what?

 

[Andrew2382]

yes it is a great country

cause we let people like you who are fucking retards voice their thoughts without fear of getting a rock thrown at them.

You are so fucking delusional chris

Yea, healthcare is so great in those nations, thats why people come here to get procedures they have to wait 6+ months for in places like Canada and England

Places like England where the National healthplan rejects many medications that is meant to extend life....things like "Tremador" might be mispelling it but it's the same medication that the fat fuck Ted Kennedy used to save his life! That gets rejected over there!

But hey national health is great right cause MSNBC says so.

Fucking twit

 

[Chris]

yes it is a great country

cause we let people like you who are fucking retards voice their thoughts without fear of getting a rock thrown at them.

You are so fucking delusional chris

Yea, healthcare is so great in those nations, thats why people come here to get procedures they have to wait 6+ months for in places like Canada and England

Places like England where the National healthplan rejects many medications that is meant to extend life....things like "Tremador" might be mispelling it but it's the same medication that the fat fuck Ted Kennedy used to save his life! That gets rejected over there!

But hey national health is great right cause MSNBC says so.

Fucking twit

Insulting people you don't know on a messageboard is pretty pathetic don't you think?

England's system sucks. Canada's system is pretty good and beloved by Canadians, but I think the French have the best healthcare system. They have no waiting times.

 

[Chris]

Wait times in Canada
-- it depends on which province you live in, and what's wrong with you. Canada's health care system runs on federal guidelines that ensure uniform standards of care, but each territory and province administers its own program. Some provinces don't plan their facilities well enough; in those, you can have waits. Some do better. As a general rule, the farther north you live, the harder it is to get to care, simply because the doctors and hospitals are concentrated in the south. But that's just as true in any rural county in the U.S.

You can hear the bitching about it no matter where you live, though. The percentage of Canadians who'd consider giving up their beloved system consistently languishes in the single digits. A few years ago, a TV show asked Canadians to name the Greatest Canadian in history; and in a broad national consensus, they gave the honor to Tommy Douglas, the Saskatchewan premier who is considered the father of the country's health care system. (And no, it had nothing to do with the fact that he was also Kiefer Sutherland's grandfather.). In spite of that, though, grousing about health care is still unofficially Canada's third national sport after curling and hockey.

And for the country's newspapers, it's a prime watchdogging opportunity. Any little thing goes sideways at the local hospital, and it's on the front pages the next day. Those kinds of stories sell papers, because everyone is invested in that system and has a personal stake in how well it functions. The American system might benefit from this kind of constant scrutiny, because it's certainly one of the things that keeps the quality high. But it also makes people think it's far worse than it is.

Critics should be reminded that the American system is not exactly instant-on, either. When I lived in California, I had excellent insurance, and got my care through one of the best university-based systems in the nation. Yet I routinely had to wait anywhere from six to twelve weeks to get in to see a specialist. Non-emergency surgical waits could be anywhere from four weeks to four months. After two years in the BC system, I'm finding the experience to be pretty much comparable, and often better. The notable exception is MRIs, which were easy in California, but can take many months to get here. (It's the number one thing people go over the border for.) Other than that, urban Canadians get care about as fast as urban Americans do.

4. You have to wait forever to get a family doctor.
False for the vast majority of Canadians, but True for a few. Again, it all depends on where you live. I live in suburban Vancouver, and there are any number of first-rate GPs in my neighborhood who are taking new patients. If you don't have a working relationship with one, but need to see a doctor now, there are 24-hour urgent care clinics in most neighborhoods that will usually get you in and out on the minor stuff in under an hour.

It is, absolutely, harder to get to a doctor if you live out in a small town, or up in the territories. But that's just as true in the U.S. -- and in America, the government won't cover the airfare for rural folk to come down to the city for needed treatment, which all the provincial plans do.

Mythbusting Canadian Health Care -- Part I | OurFuture.org

 

[KittenKoder]

yes it is a great country

cause we let people like you who are fucking retards voice their thoughts without fear of getting a rock thrown at them.

You are so fucking delusional chris

Yea, healthcare is so great in those nations, thats why people come here to get procedures they have to wait 6+ months for in places like Canada and England

Places like England where the National healthplan rejects many medications that is meant to extend life....things like "Tremador" might be mispelling it but it's the same medication that the fat fuck Ted Kennedy used to save his life! That gets rejected over there!

But hey national health is great right cause MSNBC says so.

Fucking twit

Insulting people you don't know on a messageboard is pretty pathetic don't you think?

England's system sucks. Canada's system is pretty good and beloved by Canadians, but I think the French have the best healthcare system. They have no waiting times.

Hello pot, meet kettle.

Really, "why" are they the "best"?

 

[Andrew2382]

Chris, I don't need to know you personally.

I have been reading your dribble since I've joined these boards...I can only thank god that I don't know you personally

 

[Andrew2382]

my very first post on these boards back in 2008....unfortunately some of the links dont work anymore cause its from 7 or so months ago, however the facts are there.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/59791-universal-health.html


""Ontario recorded the shortest waiting time overall (the wait between visiting a general practitioner and receiving treatment), at 15 weeks, followed by British Columbia (19 weeks) and Quebec (19.4 weeks). Saskatchewan (27.2 weeks), New Brunswick (25.2 weeks) and Nova Scotia (24.8 weeks) recorded the longest waits in Canada"

25 weeks to see your MD. We complain about having to wait 45 minutes in the doctor's office.

How about the wait tile from the MD to a specialist?

"The First Wait: Between General Practitioner and Specialist Consultation

The waiting time between referral by a GP and consultation with a specialist rose to 9.2 weeks from the 8.8 weeks recorded in 2006. The shortest waits for specialist consultations were in Ontario (7.6 weeks), Manitoba (8.2 weeks), and British Columbia (8.8 weeks).

The longest waits for consultation with a specialist were recorded in New Brunswick (14.7 weeks), Newfoundland (13.5 weeks), and Prince Edward Island (12.7 weeks)." "

 

[Andrew2382]

and of course you covet France's healthcare system....Michael Moore whole documentary was basically based on it and you probably gobbled it all up cause you are a sheep