Health Care reform: Its not the end of the world and its not going to save the world

[rightwinger]

Well, after a year of wrangling, Healthcare Reform has passed. For most Americans, their lives will go on just like they always have. Most Americans will continue to keep the same insurance they always have and most policies will have only minor differences. Your premiums will go up, just like they have gone up for the last ten years. Will it go up more or less than they would have? Who the hell knows?
Some Americans will be able to get insurance where they couldn't get it before. Some Americans will get insurance they did not want to carry.
Bottom Line: Things are going to be about the same as they always were

 

[rightwinger]

In the end, Americans will realize that this bill is not such a big deal. That the Republicans were being drama queens and that nothing that they threatened came to be.

 

[Vel]

Well, after a year of wrangling, Healthcare Reform has passed. For most Americans, their lives will go on just like they always have. Most Americans will continue to keep the same insurance they always have and most policies will have only minor differences. Your premiums will go up, just like they have gone up for the last ten years. Will it go up more or less than they would have? Who the hell knows?
Some Americans will be able to get insurance where they couldn't get it before. Some Americans will get insurance they did not want to carry.
Bottom Line: Things are going to be about the same as they always were

Not hardly.

 

[Vel]

In the end, Americans will realize that this bill is not such a big deal. That the Republicans were being drama queens and that nothing that they threatened came to be.

You keep telling yourself that people won't be this pissed in November.

 

[boedicca]

Bottom Line: Things are going to be about the same as they always were

Then why are we adding $Ts of spending just to keep things the same as they always were?

 

[Mr Natural]

In the end, Americans will realize that this bill is not such a big deal. That the Republicans were being drama queens and that nothing that they threatened came to be.

Does anything they ever threaten come to be?

 

[LibocalypseNow]

This could be true in the end. However,when average citizens start seeing the Government informing them that they are going to be fined or imprisoned for not buying Health Insurance,it's going to seem like a much bigger deal to them. This Bill was just plain wrong on so many levels. Taking away more Freedom & Liberty from the People was my main concern and complaint. Forcing citizens to buy Health Insurance or be fined & imprisoned just seems so Un-American and Unconstitutional to me. Repealing some parts if not all of this Legislation should be a top priority for the Republicans in the future. This Bill was not good for America.

 

[boedicca]

Nile Gardiner nails it:

...Above all the health care bill is a thinly disguised vanity project for a president who is committed to transforming the United States from the world’s most successful large-scale free enterprise economy, to a highly interventionist society with a massive role for centralized government. The United States has thrived as a nation for over 230 years precisely because of its love for freedom and its belief in free markets.

What we have just witnessed is a massive slap in the face for limited government and the principle of individual responsibility. Its net result will be the erosion of freedom in America, and a further undermining of the country’s economic competitiveness. This may be a political victory for the president and his supporters in Congress, but it is in reality a defeat for America as a great power, and another Obama-led step towards US decline.

Congress health care vote: a dark day for freedom in America – Telegraph Blogs

 

[Dr.House]

Well, after a year of wrangling, Healthcare Reform has passed. For most Americans, their lives will go on just like they always have. Most Americans will continue to keep the same insurance they always have and most policies will have only minor differences. Your premiums will go up, just like they have gone up for the last ten years. Will it go up more or less than they would have? Who the hell knows?
Some Americans will be able to get insurance where they couldn't get it before. Some Americans will get insurance they did not want to carry.
Bottom Line: Things are going to be about the same as they always were

Except Barry said our premiums would be cut by up to $2,500 per year...

Breitbart.tv 20 Promises for $2,500: All Americans Now Await Lower Premiums Promised by Obama


How embarrassing....

 

[rightwinger]

In the end, it turns out that this bill is not much different than what the republicans proposed. There are insurance pools, no public options, no restrictions on pre-existing conditions, you still keep your same insurance company.

Most Americans will realize this is not that big a deal and will hardly recognize the difference in how they handle their health needs

 

[boedicca]

In the end, it turns out that this bill is not much different than what the republicans proposed. There are insurance pools, no public options, no restrictions on pre-existing conditions, you still keep your same insurance company.

Most Americans will realize this is not that big a deal and will hardly recognize the difference in how they handle their health needs

I call Shenanigans.

This bill does eliminate the barriers to interstate competition.

This bill does not include tort reform.

This bill does not decouple health insurance from unemployment via reformation of the tax code - it actually decreasea Health Savings Accounts.

This bill does not decrease the deficit - it actually increases it after the gimmicks are stripped away.

It includes very little GOP input - despite 14 months of process.

 

[Vel]

In the end, it turns out that this bill is not much different than what the republicans proposed. There are insurance pools, no public options, no restrictions on pre-existing conditions, you still keep your same insurance company.

Most Americans will realize this is not that big a deal and will hardly recognize the difference in how they handle their health needs

LMAO and so the spin starts.

 

[rightwinger]

Conservative David Frum describes it best

Healthcare Bill turns into Republicans Waterloo



Waterloo | FrumForum

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s.

It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they’ll compensate for today’s expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections. But:

(1) It’s a good bet that conservatives are over-optimistic about November – by then the economy will have improved and the immediate goodies in the healthcare bill will be reaching key voting blocs.

(2) So what? Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now.


At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.


This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.

Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan.

Barack Obama badly wanted Republican votes for his plan. Could we have leveraged his desire to align the plan more closely with conservative views? To finance it without redistributive taxes on productive enterprise – without weighing so heavily on small business – without expanding Medicaid? Too late now. They are all the law.

No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents’ insurance coverage? And even if the votes were there – would President Obama sign such a repeal?

We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.

There were leaders who knew better, who would have liked to deal. But they were trapped. Conservative talkers on Fox and talk radio had whipped the Republican voting base into such a frenzy that deal-making was rendered impossible. How do you negotiate with somebody who wants to murder your grandmother? Or – more exactly – with somebody whom your voters have been persuaded to believe wants to murder their grandmother

So today’s defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it’s mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it’s Waterloo all right: ours.

 

[Dr.House]

So our premiums won't go down by up to $2,500 per year?

 

[Some Guy]

Of course it's not a big deal to fans of big government. If you happen to pay taxes and have or intend to have health insurance though, you should be upset about the considerable costs you're going to incur as a result of this.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Well, after a year of wrangling, Healthcare Reform has passed. For most Americans, their lives will go on just like they always have. Most Americans will continue to keep the same insurance they always have and most policies will have only minor differences. Your premiums will go up, just like they have gone up for the last ten years. Will it go up more or less than they would have? Who the hell knows?
Some Americans will be able to get insurance where they couldn't get it before. Some Americans will get insurance they did not want to carry.
Bottom Line: Things are going to be about the same as they always were

YOU FUCKING LIAR!!!!

Obama claimed premuims would go down, if not by 3,000% then by $2,500.

YOU FUCKING LIAR!!!

 

[CMike]

Conservative David Frum describes it best

Healthcare Bill turns into Republicans Waterloo



Waterloo | FrumForum

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s.

It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they’ll compensate for today’s expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections. But:

(1) It’s a good bet that conservatives are over-optimistic about November – by then the economy will have improved and the immediate goodies in the healthcare bill will be reaching key voting blocs.

(2) So what? Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now.


At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.


This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.

Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan.

Barack Obama badly wanted Republican votes for his plan. Could we have leveraged his desire to align the plan more closely with conservative views? To finance it without redistributive taxes on productive enterprise – without weighing so heavily on small business – without expanding Medicaid? Too late now. They are all the law.

No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents’ insurance coverage? And even if the votes were there – would President Obama sign such a repeal?

We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.

There were leaders who knew better, who would have liked to deal. But they were trapped. Conservative talkers on Fox and talk radio had whipped the Republican voting base into such a frenzy that deal-making was rendered impossible. How do you negotiate with somebody who wants to murder your grandmother? Or – more exactly – with somebody whom your voters have been persuaded to believe wants to murder their grandmother

So today’s defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it’s mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it’s Waterloo all right: ours.

Actually it's the democrats that committed suicide

At least the americans now know what liberals/progressives are, and will come to know it even better soon.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Conservative David Frum describes it best

Healthcare Bill turns into Republicans Waterloo



Waterloo | FrumForum

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s.

It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they’ll compensate for today’s expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections. But:

(1) It’s a good bet that conservatives are over-optimistic about November – by then the economy will have improved and the immediate goodies in the healthcare bill will be reaching key voting blocs.

(2) So what? Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now.


At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.


This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.

Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan.

Barack Obama badly wanted Republican votes for his plan. Could we have leveraged his desire to align the plan more closely with conservative views? To finance it without redistributive taxes on productive enterprise – without weighing so heavily on small business – without expanding Medicaid? Too late now. They are all the law.

No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents’ insurance coverage? And even if the votes were there – would President Obama sign such a repeal?

We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.

There were leaders who knew better, who would have liked to deal. But they were trapped. Conservative talkers on Fox and talk radio had whipped the Republican voting base into such a frenzy that deal-making was rendered impossible. How do you negotiate with somebody who wants to murder your grandmother? Or – more exactly – with somebody whom your voters have been persuaded to believe wants to murder their grandmother

So today’s defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it’s mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it’s Waterloo all right: ours.

Actually it's the democrats that committed suicide

At least the americans now know what liberals/progressives are, and will come to know it even better soon.

David Frum posts here as "Jake Starkey"

 

[Dr.House]

Well, after a year of wrangling, Healthcare Reform has passed. For most Americans, their lives will go on just like they always have. Most Americans will continue to keep the same insurance they always have and most policies will have only minor differences. Your premiums will go up, just like they have gone up for the last ten years. Will it go up more or less than they would have? Who the hell knows?
Some Americans will be able to get insurance where they couldn't get it before. Some Americans will get insurance they did not want to carry.
Bottom Line: Things are going to be about the same as they always were

YOU FUCKING LIAR!!!!

Obama claimed premuims would go down, if not by 3,000% then by $2,500.

YOU FUCKING LIAR!!!

120 changed everything, man...

 

[rightwinger]

Conservative David Frum describes it best

Healthcare Bill turns into Republicans Waterloo



Waterloo | FrumForum

Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s.

It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they’ll compensate for today’s expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections. But:

(1) It’s a good bet that conservatives are over-optimistic about November – by then the economy will have improved and the immediate goodies in the healthcare bill will be reaching key voting blocs.

(2) So what? Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now.


At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.


This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.

Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan.

Barack Obama badly wanted Republican votes for his plan. Could we have leveraged his desire to align the plan more closely with conservative views? To finance it without redistributive taxes on productive enterprise – without weighing so heavily on small business – without expanding Medicaid? Too late now. They are all the law.

No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents’ insurance coverage? And even if the votes were there – would President Obama sign such a repeal?

We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.

There were leaders who knew better, who would have liked to deal. But they were trapped. Conservative talkers on Fox and talk radio had whipped the Republican voting base into such a frenzy that deal-making was rendered impossible. How do you negotiate with somebody who wants to murder your grandmother? Or – more exactly – with somebody whom your voters have been persuaded to believe wants to murder their grandmother

So today’s defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it’s mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it’s Waterloo all right: ours.

Actually it's the democrats that committed suicide

At least the americans now know what liberals/progressives are, and will come to know it even better soon.

Republicans are naive if they think this will have much carry over come November. Just watch this board and see how many healthcare threads will be posted.

By November, Republican propaganda arm Fox News will have a whole new issue to be enraged about