Having a personal relationship with God

[Intense]

God is spirit and Truth.

Everything is Religion, Thought, Word, Action, Value, Principle, Ideal. You do not turn it off with a switch on your end.

Madison on Conscience, the Individual, Society, and Government.

Because we hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth, "that religion or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence." The Religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man; and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate. This right is in its nature an unalienable right. It is unalienable, because the opinions of men, depending only on the evidence contemplated by their own minds cannot follow the dictates of other men: It is unalienable also, because what is here a right towards men, is a duty towards the Creator. It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage and such only as he believes to be acceptable to him. This duty is precedent, both in order of time and in degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society. Before any man can be considerd as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governour of the Universe: And if a member of Civil Society, do it with a saving of his allegiance to the Universal Sovereign. We maintain therefore that in matters of Religion, no man's right is abridged by the institution of Civil Society and that Religion is wholly exempt from its cognizance. True it is, that no other rule exists, by which any question which may divide a Society, can be ultimately determined, but the will of the majority; but it is also true that the majority may trespass on the rights of the minority.

Because Religion be exempt from the authority of the Society at large, still less can it be subject to that of the Legislative Body. The latter are but the creatures and vicegerents of the former. Their jurisdiction is both derivative and limited: it is limited with regard to the co-ordinate departments, more necessarily is it limited with regard to the constituents. The preservation of a free Government requires not merely, that the metes and bounds which separate each department of power be invariably maintained; but more especially that neither of them be suffered to overleap the great Barrier which defends the rights of the people. The Rulers who are guilty of such an encroachment, exceed the commission from which they derive their authority, and are Tyrants. The People who submit to it are governed by laws made neither by themselves nor by an authority derived from them, and are slaves.

Because it is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of Citizens, and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution. The free men of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entagled the question in precedents. They saw all the consequences in the principle, and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle. We revere this lesson too much soon to forget it. Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects? that the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?

Because the Bill violates the equality which ought to be the basis of every law, and which is more indispensible, in proportion as the validity or expediency of any law is more liable to be impeached. If "all men are by nature equally free and independent," all men are to be considered as entering into Society on equal conditions; as relinquishing no more, and therefore retaining no less, one than another, of their natural rights. Above all are they to be considered as retaining an "equal title to the free exercise of Religion according to the dictates of Conscience." Whilst we assert for ourselves a freedom to embrace, to profess and to observe the Religion which we believe to be of divine origin, we cannot deny an equal freedom to those whose minds have not yet yielded to the evidence which has convinced us. If this freedom be abused, it is an offence against God, not against man: To God, therefore, not to man, must an account of it be rendered. As the Bill violates equality by subjecting some to peculiar burdens, so it violates the same principle, by granting to others peculiar exemptions. Are the quakers and Menonists the only sects who think a compulsive support of their Religions unnecessary and unwarrantable? can their piety alone be entrusted with the care of public worship? Ought their Religions to be endowed above all others with extraordinary privileges by which proselytes may be enticed from all others? We think too favorably of the justice and good sense of these demoninations to believe that they either covet pre-eminences over their fellow citizens or that they will be seduced by them from the common opposition to the measure.

Because the Bill implies either that the Civil Magistrate is a competent Judge of Religious Truth; or that he may employ Religion as an engine of Civil policy. The first is an arrogant pretension falsified by the contradictory opinions of Rulers in all ages, and throughout the world: the second an unhallowed perversion of the means of salvation.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4271544

Madison on Conscience.

I still meas nothing.

All religion is a cult following. Does god require a cult following? Do you need to be told or conform or follow to.... know?

No. My Religion Specifically does not allow followers. We Each need to see and determine for ourselves. You are letting preconceived notion dictate to you what Religion is. It does not matter what other people try to impose on you, if Your Conscience rejects it. Salvation comes from God, not Man, not Government, not Society, not even the Church, not even Scripture. They are tools. Nothing in the physical realm compares to the Creator. Don't get snared in Idolatry. Religion is not about me or you living up to Anyone Else's expectation, God did not fashion us after Marionettes. We Each matter. We Each are unique. We are All related, if you take it back far enough.

 

[syrenn]

God is spirit and Truth.

Everything is Religion, Thought, Word, Action, Value, Principle, Ideal. You do not turn it off with a switch on your end.

Madison on Conscience, the Individual, Society, and Government.

Because we hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth, "that religion or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence." The Religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man; and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate. This right is in its nature an unalienable right. It is unalienable, because the opinions of men, depending only on the evidence contemplated by their own minds cannot follow the dictates of other men: It is unalienable also, because what is here a right towards men, is a duty towards the Creator. It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage and such only as he believes to be acceptable to him. This duty is precedent, both in order of time and in degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society. Before any man can be considerd as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governour of the Universe: And if a member of Civil Society, do it with a saving of his allegiance to the Universal Sovereign. We maintain therefore that in matters of Religion, no man's right is abridged by the institution of Civil Society and that Religion is wholly exempt from its cognizance. True it is, that no other rule exists, by which any question which may divide a Society, can be ultimately determined, but the will of the majority; but it is also true that the majority may trespass on the rights of the minority.

Because Religion be exempt from the authority of the Society at large, still less can it be subject to that of the Legislative Body. The latter are but the creatures and vicegerents of the former. Their jurisdiction is both derivative and limited: it is limited with regard to the co-ordinate departments, more necessarily is it limited with regard to the constituents. The preservation of a free Government requires not merely, that the metes and bounds which separate each department of power be invariably maintained; but more especially that neither of them be suffered to overleap the great Barrier which defends the rights of the people. The Rulers who are guilty of such an encroachment, exceed the commission from which they derive their authority, and are Tyrants. The People who submit to it are governed by laws made neither by themselves nor by an authority derived from them, and are slaves.

Because it is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of Citizens, and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution. The free men of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entagled the question in precedents. They saw all the consequences in the principle, and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle. We revere this lesson too much soon to forget it. Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects? that the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?

Because the Bill violates the equality which ought to be the basis of every law, and which is more indispensible, in proportion as the validity or expediency of any law is more liable to be impeached. If "all men are by nature equally free and independent," all men are to be considered as entering into Society on equal conditions; as relinquishing no more, and therefore retaining no less, one than another, of their natural rights. Above all are they to be considered as retaining an "equal title to the free exercise of Religion according to the dictates of Conscience." Whilst we assert for ourselves a freedom to embrace, to profess and to observe the Religion which we believe to be of divine origin, we cannot deny an equal freedom to those whose minds have not yet yielded to the evidence which has convinced us. If this freedom be abused, it is an offence against God, not against man: To God, therefore, not to man, must an account of it be rendered. As the Bill violates equality by subjecting some to peculiar burdens, so it violates the same principle, by granting to others peculiar exemptions. Are the quakers and Menonists the only sects who think a compulsive support of their Religions unnecessary and unwarrantable? can their piety alone be entrusted with the care of public worship? Ought their Religions to be endowed above all others with extraordinary privileges by which proselytes may be enticed from all others? We think too favorably of the justice and good sense of these demoninations to believe that they either covet pre-eminences over their fellow citizens or that they will be seduced by them from the common opposition to the measure.

Because the Bill implies either that the Civil Magistrate is a competent Judge of Religious Truth; or that he may employ Religion as an engine of Civil policy. The first is an arrogant pretension falsified by the contradictory opinions of Rulers in all ages, and throughout the world: the second an unhallowed perversion of the means of salvation.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4271544

Madison on Conscience.

I still meas nothing.

All religion is a cult following. Does god require a cult following? Do you need to be told or conform or follow to.... know?

No. My Religion Specifically does not allow followers. We Each need to see and determine for ourselves. You are letting preconceived notion dictate to you what Religion is. It does not matter what other people try to impose on you, if Your Conscience rejects it. Salvation comes from God, not Man, not Government, not Society, not even the Church, not even Scripture. They are tools. Nothing in the physical realm compares to the Creator. Don't get snared in Idolatry. Religion is not about me or you living up to Anyone Else's expectation, God did not fashion us after Marionettes. We Each matter. We Each are unique. We are All related, if you take it back far enough.

If you are a religion/cult.... it has followers. Simple as that.

 

[Intense]

I still meas nothing.

All religion is a cult following. Does god require a cult following? Do you need to be told or conform or follow to.... know?

No. My Religion Specifically does not allow followers. We Each need to see and determine for ourselves. You are letting preconceived notion dictate to you what Religion is. It does not matter what other people try to impose on you, if Your Conscience rejects it. Salvation comes from God, not Man, not Government, not Society, not even the Church, not even Scripture. They are tools. Nothing in the physical realm compares to the Creator. Don't get snared in Idolatry. Religion is not about me or you living up to Anyone Else's expectation, God did not fashion us after Marionettes. We Each matter. We Each are unique. We are All related, if you take it back far enough.

If you are a religion/cult.... it has followers. Simple as that.

Nope. No Followers, just me, along for the ride.

 

[syrenn]

No. My Religion Specifically does not allow followers. We Each need to see and determine for ourselves. You are letting preconceived notion dictate to you what Religion is. It does not matter what other people try to impose on you, if Your Conscience rejects it. Salvation comes from God, not Man, not Government, not Society, not even the Church, not even Scripture. They are tools. Nothing in the physical realm compares to the Creator. Don't get snared in Idolatry. Religion is not about me or you living up to Anyone Else's expectation, God did not fashion us after Marionettes. We Each matter. We Each are unique. We are All related, if you take it back far enough.

If you are a religion/cult.... it has followers. Simple as that.

Nope. No Followers, just me, along for the ride.

then whats the problem?

 

[Intense]

If you are a religion/cult.... it has followers. Simple as that.

Nope. No Followers, just me, along for the ride.

then whats the problem?

There is none. It's all good.

I never blame God for what we do to each other.

 

[LOki]

Having a personal relationship with God requires no religion.

True.

All that’s required is an imagination.

And your money.

 

[syrenn]

Nope. No Followers, just me, along for the ride.

then whats the problem?

There is none. It's all good.

I never blame God for what we do to each other.

I put the blame where it belongs... with who is doing the shit .

 

[MarcATL]

requires no religion.

Go on...how does one get into a personal relationship with God?

You made a pretty open statement, I'm curious to it's conclusion.

 

[Avatar4321]

Organizing religion has caused this world many lives

Ignorance has cost more.

But does the God of heaven simply want a relationship with us? or does He wants us to have a relationship with our fellow man as well? He is always organizing those who listen because there is more power in saints who are gathered.

 

[Sky Dancer]

requires no religion.

Go on...how does one get into a personal relationship with God?

You made a pretty open statement, I'm curious to it's conclusion.

You have your own experience.

 

[Sherry]

requires no religion.

I consider that approach to be spirituality.

Religion vs Spirituality

 

[tinydancer]

requires no religion.

of course it doesn't. tonight it is crisp outside. you go out that door and you pray you see one more moth or hear one more cricket before the snows come in.

and you try with all your heart to not lament that the world goes to sleep at this time of year. And then you wait for spring again.

This is why though we beleive in a greater being. Because Jehovah is the dude that makes this go round.

You don't need religion. You don't have to go to church. Walk outside. God is out there. And every time I go out that door he embraces me.

Disclaimer: I am posting on NyQuil. but I hope I'm still making sense here.