Hate the system not the religion

[dilloduck]

Fire away please------what do you have me "pegged as and what sect do you belong to?

please edit and answer

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Come on. If you want me to purse this, the public will be aware.

Quit being such an enourmous idiot. We're not the same person, fool.

 

[supermarine]

When u said that the bible told you to love your neibour.(however u spell that damn word), thats the new testament. NOT the old testiment. The new testement does not excuse the jews from what their scriptures say because they do not beleive in the old testament. i dont hate jews, they dont follow the darn book exactly. The old testament did say that the jews were the chosen people and that they should stop nonbelievers. They slaughtered whole citys. The old testament discribes that! Im not saying that we should hate jews or their religion, but if we are to critisize islam because of what their scriptures say, wouldn't we be kinda hippicritical not to include the jews? (sry about spelling).

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by supermarine
When u said that the bible told you to love your neibour.(however u spell that damn word), thats the new testament. NOT the old testiment. The new testement does not excuse the jews from what their scriptures say because they do not beleive in the old testament.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think you are trying to say that the Jews don't believe in the NEW Testament, and they are not told to ignore the Old.

We do have to know a couple of simple points. Biblical prophecy is what proves the Bible devine. -The New and Old Testament MUST prove each other in order to be consistent. As such, they do and the Bible is made of both parts.

Jews held to tradition and ignored the reality of Jesus. This is why they will welcome the Antichrist when he comes as they will be looking for Christ instead and see the peacemaker as their savior. -That will prove to be wrong when he desecrates the temple 3 1/2 years into the peace treaty. This ignoring of Jesus is not universal, as many Jews acknowledge Jesus and have been "born again".

The Old Testament set up laws to save mankind. It did so in order to ultimately show the price for sin was to high for man to achieve reaching God. -God had to reach out to man. Jesus was sent to be the sacraficial lamb to purify the world. We need/ed only to believe and accept. This act and the whole event's build up became the New Testament. Wether it is believed or followed, doesn't change the fact that it occurred. As it DID occur, the Jews are commanded to be "born again" as well.

This does not take away their "favored" status, nor does it take away the command to follow the 10 Commandments. In fact, Jesus said He was here to lead people to follow Him AND the 10 Commandments.

i dont hate jews, they dont follow the darn book exactly. The old testament did say that the jews were the chosen people and that they should stop nonbelievers. They slaughtered whole citys. The old testament discribes that! Im not saying that we should hate jews or their religion, but if we are to critisize islam because of what their scriptures say, wouldn't we be kinda hippicritical not to include the jews? (sry about spelling).

I don't recall a blanket statement for Jews to have a blank check at the bank o' killing sprees. I would love to see the verses if that truly exists. Every case I have ever seen of anything close, there was a direct command from God (as that was the was communication from God to man worked back then), to kill idoloters or some such people specifically and on a time by time basis. Again, this was for a purpose other than "to promote faith", this was Godly justice as a punishment for sinful behavior over many years.

 

[Myvoicecounts]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Why do you refuse to believe? Have you ever considerered this to be a from of denial. It is an unfortunate reality that the party in power must fight two wars. One against the terrorists and the other against the liberals and their lying media allies. If the American enemy could come up with a realistic way to end the terrorism instead of merely criticizing we would be providing the world with a powerful unified front. That would be important in gaining the support in other countries

It is not a form of denial. The fact that this mess is seen as something that cannot be solved with out a war is due to the media.
The fact is that there are real serious problems in this world, to solve them, you don't have to go around killing everybody .

You might label people who try to see beyond what media is telling you to be "liberals" or you may label them "satanic muslims" or heathens who are planning to take you to hell... but the fact is, with out seeing the world events as they really are, we will continue to make mistakes that will ruin many innocent lives and we may regret it later.

Everyone will be happy to see free democratic nations in the middle east, but we can only achieve that with peaceful methods- if we want those democratic governments to stay there for a long time.

 

[Myvoicecounts]

Originally posted by NewGuy
The refusal to believe is quite clear: You are talking to a muslim who believes in following the koran. Lying is all part of the program if it achieves higher goals. Lying has ensued, as I have shown, and now a denial of reality is showing the inconsistencies once again.

I am not a muslim. I don't follow koran. Why don't you come out of your shell and have a peek at the outside world? Its not as scary as you think it is.

 

[sumayya]

Originally posted by Myvoicecounts
If people follow a religion and if it leads them to their own demise, then it is a moral and just thing to stop them. However, if a religion exists and people follow it and not to their demise but according to their own personal comfort, then it is immoral to force those people into making their religion into the cause of their death.

What religion is mine? I have abandoned all religions and have surrendered to the supreme, I have only one religion. :



: Thanks for your welcome. Arab kings and dictators can step down and that is possible by the "dissent of the governed" toward the rulers and ofcourse to have that, people themselves should want to change and majority will want to change the system if they are given enough support.

Any Arab leader who is taken out of power now will contribute to a safer future of America.

Also, after centuries of hate, I think it is impossible for the two sides to hate each other and not act on it, I think the only way to end this would be to come together as human beings, which is possible... because there are people who want peace on both sides, just like there are people who want war and destruction on both sides.

hi Myvoicecounts, nice to meet you,
im an arab/american muslim who entered recently, i entered as a member in which i can fix what others thought of us and still they believe we are terrorists. i tried to tell them that you had understood islam in a wrong way, they quoted from Quran true, but they haven't read why,how,when this peice of verse came. they go right and left and at the end they ended up with me as a liar and a terorist trying to perish everything! i stopped for a while because i was busy, but everyday i pass by this forum and read. i hope that you can help to give the true image of islam, and that is the forum for,

 

[Myvoicecounts]

Originally posted by sumayya
hi Myvoicecounts, nice to meet you,
im an arab/american muslim who entered recently, i entered as a member in which i can fix what others thought of us and still they believe we are terrorists. i tried to tell them that you had understood islam in a wrong way, they quoted from Quran true, but they haven't read why,how,when this peice of verse came. they go right and left and at the end they ended up with me as a liar and a terorist trying to perish everything! i stopped for a while because i was busy, but everyday i pass by this forum and read. i hope that you can help to give the true image of islam, and that is the forum for,

Hi sumayya, nice to meet you too :

Its funny how you end up being a terrorist and a liar if you try to tell them the truth. The guy who said "ignorance is bliss" is probably right. It is impossible to tell some people who have been brainwashed into thinking a certain way that there is a bigger world out there, with alot of diversity and it is not as hostile as they think it is.

My argument actually had nothing to do with koran or Islam, still Mr. New Guy here called me a terrorist and a liar. So, I came to the conclusion that it is not possible to discuss your views with people like that.

 

[Myvoicecounts]

Originally posted by Sir Evil
What exactly are you trying to point out with you post here?
your voice doe's not count if you are not making a point!

nothing much really, that post was directed to Mr.newguy here.

Also, if my voice does not count, then yours doesn't too, because from where I am standing, if I don't make sense, neither do you.

 

[dilloduck]

I was raised Christian and get attacked by Newguy too
Don't worry about. He attacks anything that is different from his perpective. He has no intentions of learning anything from anyone on this subject.

 

[Myvoicecounts]

Originally posted by Sir Evil
Brilliant! - you have totally avoided my question earlier in this post! I have no clue about what you and NewGuy were posting about!

take a peek at my last question that you avoided.



Now I see that you are a muslim. So are you just a Bush basher, or do you really by into the dream of waking up to world peace and the perfect world?

I am not a muslim. If you are so attached to the idea that you have to put me into a category, I go into a category of "Hindu", "recent bush actions" basher.

Peace is not an option but mandatory and it can be a reality and a solution to all the problems, however if people are so obsessed with trying to not cooperate with each other then I guess it will only remain as a dream. Mr. Bush does not cooperate with the world, he thought he can attack Iraq and capture Saddam and that will get him votes. He is the liar, he lied to the American public and he has lied to the world. If he really wants to end terrorism, he would have chosen a better way to do so, thats the point. He attacked to get more votes and he thought with new contracters his economy would be booming again after the war, there was no 'other motive'. End of discussion, thank you.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Myvoicecounts
I am not a muslim. If you are so attached to the idea that you have to put me into a category, I go into a category of "Hindu", "recent bush actions" basher.

Peace is not an option but mandatory and it can be a reality and a solution to all the problems, however if people are so obsessed with trying to not cooperate with each other then I guess it will only remain as a dream. Mr. Bush does not cooperate with the world, he thought he can attack Iraq and capture Saddam and that will get him votes. He is the liar, he lied to the American public and he has lied to the world. If he really wants to end terrorism, he would have chosen a better way to do so, thats the point. End of discussion, thank you.

I follow you up to a point....

If you are ever so intelligent, please tell us what the options were? Continue to "contain" Saddam? Continue to ignore the terrorists like we did for the 20 years leading up to 911? What?

What is that "better way" that you mention? I really am looking for an answer and not just being sarcastic....

 

[Myvoicecounts]

Yes, he most certainly did! so tell me how the world has become a less secure place now right?

Do you really think Iraqis will heartily thank us for all the abuse they went through after the war? Also, do you really think that all the arab people around the region are going to feel secure after Iraq has been brutally attacked like that? I think not.
What my intentions are here are not the issue, I am only trying to give you my view which ofcourse I think is right. The issue here is what Bush is doing to the future of America.

BTW, thanks alot for all the comments you are just too friendly to a muslim conspirator like me.
:cof:

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Myvoicecounts
Do you really think Iraqis will heartily thank us for all the abuse they went through after the war? Also, do you really think that all the arab people around the region are going to feel secure after Iraq has been brutally attacked like that? I think not.
What my intentions are here are not the issue, I am only trying to give you my view which ofcourse I think is right. The issue here is what Bush is doing to the future of America.

BTW, thanks alot for all the comments you are just too friendly to a muslim conspirator like me.
:cof:

The Iraqis that were abused for no reason, no. I don't expect them to thank us. But there are many more that were helped and are being helped by America that will be more than grateful to us.

But of course, you will not want to hear their voices. Just as you won't hear them now. They are out there and some media does report on them but most don't. I correspond with several soldiers over there and they tell me that just about everyday they are thanked by Iraqis for what we are doing for their nation.

Americans want everything to happen in 30 seconds or it isn't good enough.

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by Myvoicecounts
Do you really think Iraqis will heartily thank us for all the abuse they went through after the war? Also, do you really think that all the arab people around the region are going to feel secure after Iraq has been brutally attacked like that? I think not.
What my intentions are here are not the issue, I am only trying to give you my view which ofcourse I think is right. The issue here is what Bush is doing to the future of America.

Well this thread has certainly been entertaining - not very enlightening - but entertaining nonetheless.

I'm not going to bother presenting any facts or research as others have. You have shown that your ability to skew the facts is only exceeded by your ability to ignore them. But let me answer the questions you posed in your last statement.

"Do you really think Iraqis will heartily thank us for all the abuse they went through after the war? "

No. I do not. Being somewhat familiar with the thought processes employed by arabs in that region, I expect us to be villified and condemned. Which serves to prove that the majority of the populace is in the grip of fanaticism and incapable of rational thought. They would rather have Saddam's henchmen torturing, maiming and killing them than to have the "Great Satan" and it's infidel minions polluting their "sacred" lands. "All the abuse"??? Please - a few prisoners were humiliated and a handful were actually "abused".

"Also, do you really think that all the arab people around the region are going to feel secure after Iraq has been brutally attacked like that?"

"Brutally attacked" - what a load. The strike on Iraq was accomplished with so few civilian casualties that it was nothing short of miraculous. Yet fanatics like you call it "brutal". Your statement reads like an extract from the kerry website - a ridiculous fantasy skewed in a pathetic attempt to boost the flagging momentum of a campaign of lies and deceit.

"The issue here is what Bush is doing to the future of America. "

So you finally reveal yourself as just another Bush basher. You are attempting to camouflage your leftist agenda as a crusade against religious bigotry. You seek to advance your liberal cause even if it means presenting those who would attack and murder us as being peaceful and misunderstood. I find that both reprehensible and disgusting.

Your attempts to characterize islam as peaceful has been long on rhetoric and remarkably short on facts. The fact is that islamics have been murdering each other as well as non-muslims since a few months after mohammed had his first hallucination.

Even the title of your thread is flawed - "Hate the system not the religion". The fact is that in the middle east, islam is a theocracy. So the "system" and the "religion" are one and the same - inseparable. It is islamic clerics who exhort the ignorant masses to violence. It is islamic clerics who denounce intercession by non-islamics, no matter how well intentioned it may be. These clerics denounce us not because of what we have done, but simply because of who we are. Islamic clerics fear us because we threaten the power and privelige they enjoy. They know that if they allow so much as a single seed of democracy to sprout in the middle east their days will be numbered.

Finally, I fail to understand how a woman can support islam or willingly accept it as her faith when their "holy" text contains detailed parameters outlining the proper procedures to be followed to administer a beating. Perhaps you'd like to give us a little tap dance to explain that one. That should be even more entertaining than the bovine feces you've treated us to so far.

 

[Avatar4321]

My only question is how can you hate the system and not the religion when the religion is the system in question? it just makes no sense.

 

[Lizzy]

Originally posted by Myvoicecounts
Do you really think Iraqis will heartily thank us for all the abuse they went through after the war? Also, do you really think that all the arab people around the region are going to feel secure after Iraq has been brutally attacked like that? I think not.
What my intentions are here are not the issue, I am only trying to give you my view which ofcourse I think is right. The issue here is what Bush is doing to the future of America.

What about the abuse they were going through when Saddam was in power?Have you forgotten all the atrocities that he performed?
Brutally attacked? I think not! What I have seen is Iragis thankful for the fact that more have clean running water, electricity and schools that the children aren't afraid to go to. School supplies being provided that were unavailable to the children as well as the freedom to purchase products that they were never able to.
What about the fact that Saddam spent a multitude of money on new palaces for his fat ass instead of using that money to provide what has now been provided?
As usual you are not using all the facts that are available, only those you choose to!

As far as Bush, he is atleast taking a stand and trying to do something against terrorism, instead of those who want to ignore the issue and hope it just goes away.
You can't provide for a better america if you can't protect those in it. 9/11 was a turning point for the American people and he is trying to make sure that it doesn't happen again with what resources he has available.
Take your head out of your ass and look around at what is going on around you. Just saying you want peace isn't going to make it happen!

 

[Myvoicecounts]

Wow this place is filled with pretty strong, hardcore conservatives. I have to confess that I had to use a dictionary to see what bovine feces meant. . I am very baffled by your enlightening use of words merlin. :

The Iraqis that were abused for no reason, no. I don't expect them to thank us. But there are many more that were helped and are being helped by America that will be more than grateful to us.

But of course, you will not want to hear their voices. Just as you won't hear them now. They are out there and some media does report on them but most don't. I correspond with several soldiers over there and they tell me that just about everyday they are thanked by Iraqis for what we are doing for their nation.

Americans want everything to happen in 30 seconds or it isn't good enough.

You see, there is no problem if Iraqis are supporting it. I am actually quite happy to see a post from a person who has seen Iraqis thank the soldiers. If they are supporting us now, then they will support the administration that will be in place in the future and the country will stay as our friends. You, me and even people whose sc names are "evil" will appreciate it if everything is peaceful in Iraq.

The problem however is that we dont know if the numbers that support us are bigger than the ones who are opposing us. WIth more and more war, we make more adversaries, the people who were supporting us will start opposing us if they already did not. This will be another + point for the arab leaders.

When I said, hate the system and not the religion, I meant hate the system by which things are run in the middle east- especially in arab nations. We have to take these arab leaders out of power, but to do that, we have to do it through peaceful methods, so that we actually ensure long lasting peace. With war, we make more enemies.

Even the title of your thread is flawed - "Hate the system not the religion". The fact is that in the middle east, islam is a theocracy. So the "system" and the "religion" are one and the same - inseparable. It is islamic clerics who exhort the ignorant masses to violence. It is islamic clerics who denounce intercession by non-islamics, no matter how well intentioned it may be. These clerics denounce us not because of what we have done, but simply because of who we are. Islamic clerics fear us because we threaten the power and privelige they enjoy. They know that if they allow so much as a single seed of democracy to sprout in the middle east their days will be numbered.

Yes there are theocracies in the middle east, but the true source of power of those leaders is fear and propaganda, not religion. Religion is what unifies them, propaganda and fear are used to control the masses.

As far as Bush, he is atleast taking a stand and trying to do something against terrorism, instead of those who want to ignore the issue and hope it just goes away.
You can't provide for a better america if you can't protect those in it. 9/11 was a turning point for the American people and he is trying to make sure that it doesn't happen again with what resources he has available.
Take your head out of your ass and look around at what is going on around you. Just saying you want peace isn't going to make it happen!

Yes, it is true that bush is doing something. I have no problem with him being against countries like north korea or arab nations like Iran , but I do have a problem with how he is dealing with these nations. It is not enough to do the right thing, he has to do the right thing, the right way.

If you think we have attacked Iraq and therefore made our country ever more secure then I fear that we are all going to have another rude awakening in the future.

War will only create more and more problems. Just saying we want peace is not going to make it happen, but if we are all open to such ideas then it is possible to "make it happen" .
In either case, it is not fair to hate the religion , if their religion truly advocates killing of everyone and if they follow that, then 'they'- including the American muslims should be at war with us right now. but they are not, and the ones who are against us are the few handful terrorists who are supported by the arab leaders. with that said...

To be honest, I really dont worry too much how secure the arab world feels, I feel all warm inside knowing that heathen Sadaam is no longer in power! Sadaam was more brutal with his attacks on his own people! But perhaps in the future we can just lob mudpies at the enemy so the masses dont feel that we are being too brutal in what is known as war!

Your intention here were originally protecting the Muslin beliefs (see your title of post) and spreading world peace not war!
And like I have said many times already that would be too nice if only it was possible, and not a pipe dream! Now you say your answer is what Bush is doing to the future of America! well dammit, why not title your thread that? Why, because once again you are being a hypocrite, trying to spread the word of peace when making your own personal attacks on Bush! Well what's it going to be?

I am sure that you have alot more beautiful things in your heart that will come out to greet me after seeing this post, but please note that these ideas are only my views, I am not trying to spread anything here.

If you call them then you have the right to do so.

I am getting the feeling that this forum is made to voice hate messages, if that is not the case, then I am very happy, but I think there is not much of a difference between voicing hate messages and having a conservative look on things. Good night!

 

[freeandfun1]

In either case, it is not fair to hate the religion , if their religion truly advocates killing of everyone and if they follow that, then 'they'- including the American muslims should be at war with us right now. but they are not, and the ones who are against us are the few handful terrorists who are supported by the arab leaders.

I am thoroughly confused.... The terrorists are supported by the Arab leaders? Then why do they keep saying that the problem is the leadership of the Arab nations???

Also, I am afraid it is only a matter of time before Muslims here in the USA jump on the bandwagon. I hope I am wrong, but the 10 million strong Muslim community here in the USA is too quiet for me when it comes to condemning 9-11 and other such atrocities such as Spain and Bali. There has been a number of Muslims in the USA that have either attacked other American or plotted to do so.

Have you forgotten:

July 4, 2002 - LAX
The Portland 7
The Lackawanna Sleeper Cell
Sgt. Asan Akbar of the 101st Airborne Division's 326th Engineer Battalion (the Muslim US Army soldier that killed several in Kuwait
The DC Sniper

and I am sure there have been many others... these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

The difference is that when a Muslim gunman walks into an airport in Israel and shoots somebody (which would never happen - their security is too good), we call it terrorism. When it happens in the USA, we say they are "deranged". Too many in the USA are keeping their heads in the sand. Is it out of fear, ignorance or just PC?

You tell me.

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by Myvoicecounts
I am getting the feeling that this forum is made to voice hate messages, if that is not the case, then I am very happy, but I think there is not much of a difference between voicing hate messages and having a conservative look on things. Good night!

Ah, once again the classic parting shot when they can't support their views with factual statements. Call them racists, homophobes, fascists, nazis, or in this case, hate mongers and then cut and run. I wish just ONCE you'd just call me a pig-headed son-of-a-bitch. At least I could relate to that.

Not you, Evil. I know what you're thinking.