Hate crime?

[catzmeow]

Hate crime legislation was needed to stop the lynching of blacks and the acts of domestic terrorism inflicted on blacks by the KKK.

As usual, inaccurate.

Hate crimes legislation wasn't even put into place in the U.S. until the late 1980s and early 1990s.

Try again, this time with facts

 

[Sky Dancer]

Hate crime legislation was needed to stop the lynching of blacks and the acts of domestic terrorism inflicted on blacks by the KKK.

As usual, inaccurate.

Hate crimes legislation wasn't even put into place in the U.S. until the late 1980s and early 1990s.

Try again, this time with facts

Next time read the links I already provided in my post. My post addresses the historical reasons behind hate crime legislation. The source for this statement is the FBI.

Crimes of hatred and prejudice—from lynchings to cross burnings to vandalism of synagogues—are a sad fact of American history, but the term "hate crime" did not enter the nation's vocabulary until the 1980s, when emerging hate groups like the Skinheads launched a wave of bias-related crime.

The FBI began investigating what we now call hate crimes as far back as the early 1920s, when we opened our first Ku Klux Klan case.[url=http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/hate.htm]Federal Bureau of Investigation - Civil Rights - Hate Crime[/url]


Here's more:
Traditional hate crime legislation protects persons because of "his race, color, religion or national origin," as in the case of the 1969 federal hate crimes law. (18 U.S.C. Section 245).
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_hat3.htm

The term "Lynch's Law" (and subsequently "lynch law" and "lynching") apparently originated during the American Revolution when Charles Lynch, a Virginia justice of the peace, ordered extralegal punishment for Tory acts. In the South, members of the abolitionist movement or other people opposing slavery were usually targets of lynch mob violence before the Civil War. After the war, southern whites used lynching to terrorize and intimidate freed blacks who were voting and assuming political power. A study of the period of 1868 to 1871 estimates that the Ku Klux Klan was involved in more than 400 lynchings. In the aftermath of war it was a period of upheaval and social turmoil. Reasons mobs gave for lynching blacks were crimes they had allegedly committed against whites; however, journalist Ida B. Wells showed that many presumed crimes were exaggerated or did not occur.[10]

Not all lynchings in the United States were targeted against African Americans and committed by the Ku Klux Klan. In 1868, ten members of the Reno Gang, all white and between 20 and 30 years of age, were lynched on three separate occasions by vigilante mobs in Southern Indiana. There was no formal investigation and no charges were ever filed against anyone.

Mob violence became a tool for enforcing white supremacy and verged on systematic political terrorism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching

 

[xotoxi]

The US government should have been on trial and not the two boys...

So you think that murder of illegal immigrants is justified and that these boys should just be released?

 

[007]

"Hate" crime laws are nothing more than feel good, liberal, PC, crap. We may as well then have "happy" crime laws, or "sad" crime laws, or "stupid" crime laws.

If something is against the law, then it's against the law. All these new names the liberals want to slap on something is just a waste of damn time, but another perfect example of how liberals think with their feelings and not logic.

 

[Sky Dancer]

"Hate" crime laws are nothing more than feel good, liberal, PC, crap. We may as well then have "happy" crime laws, or "sad" crime laws, or "stupid" crime laws.

If something is against the law, then it's against the law. All these new names the liberals want to slap on something is just a waste of damn time, but another perfect example of how liberals think with their feelings and not logic.

U.S. Sen. Jeff Merkley, D-Ore., has joined Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., to co-sponsor the Matthew Shepard Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2009.

The bill will enable the Justice Department to assist local authorities in the investigation and prosecution of hate crimes by authorizing grants to meet the extraordinary expenses often involved in investigating and prosecuting these cases.

"Hate crimes are not just crimes against individuals, they are crimes targeting entire communities," said Merkley. "They are efforts to exploit and inflame our differences and to deny America's fundamental promise that every person should be treated equally."

At the federal level, the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Prevention Act empowers the Treasury Department and the Justice Department to increase personnel to better prevent and respond to allegations of hate crimes - crimes that target victims on the basis of their race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability.

http://www.portlandobserver.com/story.asp?record=9887&section=Law / Politics

 

[Nik]

The funny thing is, hate crime laws are part of the problem, they are creating more separation of people and dissension toward the groups they protect than they deter. But it's only part of the problem, there are others.

Yeah. I mean in the past you could just murder a black dude while calling them a ******, and it was all ok. Now? These new laws are on the books that punish you for that. And man that makes me dislike blacks now....yeah. Sorry, but your statement makes no sense.

Let me explain something to you all. This isn't about whether a black, white, gay, straight, hispanic, handicapped, ab'ed person is murdered. Its about what that murder does to other people who share the same characteristics. If someone is murdered and the murder is because of money, drugs, or personal circumstances, thats one thing. If its because the person was white, or black, or some sort of identity, thats something else. And that is scary to people who share that identity. And that should be legislated against.

 

[Nik]

"Hate" crime laws are nothing more than feel good, liberal, PC, crap. We may as well then have "happy" crime laws, or "sad" crime laws, or "stupid" crime laws.

If something is against the law, then it's against the law. All these new names the liberals want to slap on something is just a waste of damn time, but another perfect example of how liberals think with their feelings and not logic.

Yup, if somethings illegal, its illegal. So if someone speeds they should be given the same punishment as someone who murders, right?

The law has the capability, thankfully and unlike you, to be more subtle than a nuclear bomb.

 

[Nik]

How is killing a white man less of a crime than killing a black man?

If the white man is killed randomly because of the color of his skin and for no other reason, it's a hate crime, especially if the crime is used to make other white people afraid and drive them out of a neighborhood.

That's a stretch.

Is a husband who kills his wife's lover guilty of a hate crime? Is a wife who hires a hitman to kill her husband guilty of a hate crime? Is a businessman who kills his partner in order to get a promotion guilty of a hate crime?

Sorry, I don't see the difference. Murder is the ultimate expression of hate, even when it involves a contract killer because that person has to be pretty hateful to kill without remorse.

Your mileage may vary.

I wasn't aware we were a society with large segments of the population who had clubs, organizations, whatever devoted to bashing, insulting, and threatening any of these groups. Nor do we have a history of discriminating against them, nor is the US government currently discriminating against any of them (as it is with gays).

 

[catzmeow]

Yeah. I mean in the past you could just murder a black dude while calling them a ******, and it was all ok.

Is he any less dead if you don't call him a ******?

 

[catzmeow]

Hate crime legislation was needed to stop the lynching of blacks and the acts of domestic terrorism inflicted on blacks by the KKK.

This was your post. It is totally inaccurate, ACCORDING TO YOUR SOURCES. If you knew anything at all about these types of crimes, you'd realize that blacks weren't being lynched in the 1980s, and that the KKK was basically a non-entity by that point in time.

the term "hate crime" did not enter the nation's vocabulary until the 1980s, when emerging hate groups like the Skinheads launched a wave of bias-related crime.

NOT the KKK, and not lynchings. You're an idiot who doesn't even read your own sources.

 

[Nik]

Yeah. I mean in the past you could just murder a black dude while calling them a ******, and it was all ok.

Is he any less dead if you don't call him a ******?

Nope. But the surrounding community of blacks are less afraid if he isn't called a ******. This isn't about the victim, its about the community.

 

[JBeukema]

Nope. But the surrounding community of blacks are less afraid if he isn't called a ******. This isn't about the victim, its about the community.

What the fuck are you talkin' about? Most blacks ('niggas) are killed by other blacks ('niggas') and they have no damned problem with eachother

 

[Nik]

Nope. But the surrounding community of blacks are less afraid if he isn't called a ******. This isn't about the victim, its about the community.

What the fuck are you talkin' about? Most blacks ('niggas) are killed by other blacks ('niggas') and they have no damned problem with eachother

And we aren't referencing those type of killings. So what exactly is your purpose in bringing it up?

 

[catzmeow]

Nope. But the surrounding community of blacks are less afraid if he isn't called a ******. This isn't about the victim, its about the community.

I think this is a naive perspective, and assumes that the vast majority of African Americans are living in fear of white people. In point of fact, I'd say the vast majority of blacks are living in fear of OTHER BLACKS.

I think that if we treated all serious crimes as the serious crimes they are, there would be no need for hate crime laws, aside from those offenses that aren't chargeable as anything else.

In fact, I would suggest that charging a crime as a hate crime leads to GREATER FEAR, rather than less fear, as it creates a climate of hyperbole and hysteria.

Hate crime laws have certainly done nothing to reduce hate crimes, just as murder laws have done nothing to reduce murder.

To be blunt: hate crime laws are a way for white liberals to feel better about doing nothing about the serious problems of blacks in America. Hate crime laws don't make urban blacks safer. Hate crime laws don't fix failing schools. Nor do hate crime laws do anything at all to reduce prejudice and race-related crimes. Legislating thought crimes does NOTHING to reduce violent crimes in the U.S.

They are sound and fury, signifying nothing.

And, I'm saying that as a person who has spent the last 19 years working with violent inner city populations

 

[Sky Dancer]

Hate crime legislation was needed to stop the lynching of blacks and the acts of domestic terrorism inflicted on blacks by the KKK.

This was your post. It is totally inaccurate, ACCORDING TO YOUR SOURCES. If you knew anything at all about these types of crimes, you'd realize that blacks weren't being lynched in the 1980s, and that the KKK was basically a non-entity by that point in time.

the term "hate crime" did not enter the nation's vocabulary until the 1980s, when emerging hate groups like the Skinheads launched a wave of bias-related crime.

NOT the KKK, and not lynchings. You're an idiot who doesn't even read your own sources.

Blacks were being lynched in the 20's 30's 40's 50's and sixties. The FBI was investigating these crimes before they were labelled hate crimes. The first legsilation that addressed th hate crime was in 1969. IF you look at lynching statistics before 1968 you will see the practice distributed throughout the country.
The skinheads arose out of the KKK. The Aryan Resistance was led by Tom Metzger, (a former KKK leader) who incited skiniheads to murder this ethiopian immigrant. Tom Metzger's organization was shut down by Morris Dees. I was living in Portland during this time, and I remember it well. The man was murdered close to where I was living at the time.

To this day, hate crime exists and the passage of the Matthew Shephard bill will deepen the penalties for it.

Hate crime is real, and is a more serious crime than other kinds of violence because of its ability to terrorize an entire minority community.

Lynchings by state, 882-1968:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/shipp/lynchingsstate.html

 

[catzmeow]

To this day, hate crime exists and the passage of the Matthew Shephard bill will deepen the penalties for it.

Hate crime is real.

Nobody denies that hate crime exists in this thread, so that's a strawman. However, there is simply no way that passing legislation will make it less common. It's a way for you to both attempt to link Matthew Shephard to the lynching era, and to impose your ideological agenda on other people. It's the first step in a path towards criminalizing thought and speech.

And thus, should be resisted by ANYONE who values the bill of rights.

 

[KittenKoder]

The question should be, is hate a crime?

 

[catzmeow]

The question should be, is hate a crime?

I agree. We should punish the crime, not the thought that inspired it.

 

[JBeukema]

The question should be, is hate a crime?

Nope, just a motivator

wait... correction: yes. yes, it is.


HATETHINK IS CRIMETHINK

 

[Sky Dancer]

The question should be, is hate a crime?

Hate is not a crime. Violence motivated by hatred to a targeted group in order to intimidate others is hate crime.

It's the actions and the effects on not only the victim but the entire group that the perpetrator has targeted for violence that makes it a hate crim.

Actions are conscionable.

Key point. The KKK and skinheads targeted the black community in Portland for violence. Mulageta Seraw was murdered. Skinheads went into a black neighborhood and beat this ethiopian immigrant to death.

The entire community was affected. I know, because I lived near where the murder occurred.

The skinheads were members of the Aryan Resistaance, a hate group started by Tom Metzger, a former grand wizard of the KKK.