Hate-crime arrests in Quran desecrations at Pace University

[DeadCanDance]

you actually belive your bullshit don't you....

so tell me mr know it all ... what does the american flag represent and what are the cornerstones of the the country it represents?

if burning the flag is not meant to itimidate americans and what they stand for .... what is the purpose of burning it and why should that be protected and burning flushing or peeing on a koran not be protected for the same reason.....

why in your bubble are the rights of a religous sect more protected than the rights of those that repsect the american flag and what it stands for ....

so tell me mr know it all ... what does the american flag represent and what are the cornerstones of the the country it represents?

No, no, no...you're not going to quietly tip-toe away from your original assertion: that burning a flag intimidates your christian religion, and your white skin color.

Burning a flag may be highly offensive, but it cannot possibly be construed as an intimidation of you as a white person or as a christian. The U.S. flag is a political symbol; not a racial or religious one.

Political free speech is universally protected by the US Constitution. That's why we let the Ku Klux Klan have marches and demonstrations. As offensive as it is, it is protected free political speech.

Burning a flag may offend your sense your or my sense of patriotism. But, patriotism isn't a protected right in the Constitution.

Your right to free speech ends when it infringes on the constitutional rights of others. Acts that are intended to intimidate a religious practice of others is potentially a hate crime, if the intent is to intimidate their freedom to practice their faith of choice, free of intimidation or coercion.


Now, if you're still confused about the legal definition of intent, review my previous posts.

And you know full well, you'd be laughed out of a courtroom, if you brought a suit alleging that burning a flag intimidates your free practice of christian faith, or that it offends your skin color as a white male. Burning a flag is a political act, vile though it may be, that does not infringe on any of your constitutional rights to freedom of religion, association, and equal protection under the law.

 

[Chips Rafferty]

so tell me mr know it all ... what does the american flag represent and what are the cornerstones of the the country it represents?

No, no, no...you're not going to quietly tip-toe away from your original assertion: that burning a flag intimidates your christian religion, and your white skin color.

Burning a flag may be highly offensive, but it cannot possibly be construed as an intimidation of you as a white person or as a christian. The U.S. flag is a political symbol; not a racial or religious one.

Political free speech is universally protected by the US Constitution. That's why we let the Ku Klux Klan have marches and demonstrations. As offensive as it is, it is protected free political speech.

Burning a flag may offend your sense your or my sense of patriotism. But, patriotism isn't a protected right in the Constitution.

Your right to free speech ends when it infringes on the constitutional rights of others. Acts that are intended to intimidate a religious practice of others is potentially a hate crime, if the intent is to intimidate their freedom to practice their faith of choice, free of intimidation or coercion.


Now, if you're still confused about the legal definition of intent, review my previous posts.

And you know full well, you'd be laughed out of a courtroom, if you brought a suit alleging that burning a flag intimidates your free practice of christian faith, or that it offends your skin color as a white male. Burning a flag is a political act, vile though it may be, that does not infringe on any of your constitutional rights to freedom of religion, association, and equal protection under the law.

YOU GO, DEAD-CAN-DANCE!

The nub of the whole problem here can be summed up in the maxim, ”Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.”

You can’t psychotically claim to have a personal line to an imaginary Jew Dune Coon in the ether, and then deny the same right to the Kwik-E-Mart clerks and Falasha factory fodder that you self-indulgently import, on the grounds that their near identical numistic ideas only are delusional and a danger to the paranoid schizophrenics of the first inst.

Particularly when the same Jew worshipping society will forcibly sedate and put you in a padded cell for talking to imaginary human identities.

The solution is to treat "religion" the same as the worst kind of pornography.

After all, more kids are killed, tortured, and permanently mentally scarred (just look around here!) by religion than by all the paedophiles and perverts who ever lived put together.

Personally I'm all in favour of bashing ALL proselytising religionists half-to-death and then dragging their conscious bodies behind us Bad Ol' Boys pickup trucks until their senseless Simian heads detach.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

join this site www.stoptheaclu.com

The ACLU and the lefties are destroying the Country brick by brick....piece by piece....and using our own Constitution to do it....

 

[actsnoblemartin]

America is a predominantly christian nation. Did you forget that?. And you dont think burning the flag is un-patriotic?, and burning of the american flag by foreign and home grown terrorists, of israeli and american flags, is clearly intended to strike fear into american hearts. The fact you have to attack christians and white people exclusively, even though america is made up of other races and religions, shows how flawed your argument is, and we had sedition laws, so it was a crime at once time, and probably should be now.

so tell me mr know it all ... what does the american flag represent and what are the cornerstones of the the country it represents?

No, no, no...you're not going to quietly tip-toe away from your original assertion: that burning a flag intimidates your christian religion, and your white skin color.

Burning a flag may be highly offensive, but it cannot possibly be construed as an intimidation of you as a white person or as a christian. The U.S. flag is a political symbol; not a racial or religious one.

Political free speech is universally protected by the US Constitution. That's why we let the Ku Klux Klan have marches and demonstrations. As offensive as it is, it is protected free political speech.

Burning a flag may offend your sense your or my sense of patriotism. But, patriotism isn't a protected right in the Constitution.

Your right to free speech ends when it infringes on the constitutional rights of others. Acts that are intended to intimidate a religious practice of others is potentially a hate crime, if the intent is to intimidate their freedom to practice their faith of choice, free of intimidation or coercion.


Now, if you're still confused about the legal definition of intent, review my previous posts.

And you know full well, you'd be laughed out of a courtroom, if you brought a suit alleging that burning a flag intimidates your free practice of christian faith, or that it offends your skin color as a white male. Burning a flag is a political act, vile though it may be, that does not infringe on any of your constitutional rights to freedom of religion, association, and equal protection under the law.

 

[manu1959]

so tell me mr know it all ... what does the american flag represent and what are the cornerstones of the the country it represents?

No, no, no...you're not going to quietly tip-toe away from your original assertion: that burning a flag intimidates your christian religion, and your white skin color.

Burning a flag may be highly offensive, but it cannot possibly be construed as an intimidation of you as a white person or as a christian. The U.S. flag is a political symbol; not a racial or religious one.

Political free speech is universally protected by the US Constitution. That's why we let the Ku Klux Klan have marches and demonstrations. As offensive as it is, it is protected free political speech.

Burning a flag may offend your sense your or my sense of patriotism. But, patriotism isn't a protected right in the Constitution.

Your right to free speech ends when it infringes on the constitutional rights of others. Acts that are intended to intimidate a religious practice of others is potentially a hate crime, if the intent is to intimidate their freedom to practice their faith of choice, free of intimidation or coercion.


Now, if you're still confused about the legal definition of intent, review my previous posts.

And you know full well, you'd be laughed out of a courtroom, if you brought a suit alleging that burning a flag intimidates your free practice of christian faith, or that it offends your skin color as a white male. Burning a flag is a political act, vile though it may be, that does not infringe on any of your constitutional rights to freedom of religion, association, and equal protection under the law.

what color were the people that founded america? what color wer they?

so if political free speach is protected so is shitting on the koran or an effige of malcom X....or harvey milk for that matter...

if i can be laughed out of court for burning a flag what not be laughed out of court for fucking with you....

 

[actsnoblemartin]

The difference between religion and pornograpy is. Pornography has no re-deeming value, it cheapens sex, the actors involved and those who watch it, while religion has more messages of love then hate, and should i say the same vile things about every muslim, white man, black man, asisan man because some commit crimes in the name of their religion, race, or pure ignorance.

Ignorance is ignorance, it is not confined to religion, and religion is not the problem , people are.


I really find what you say offensive, un-true, and hateful.

YOU GO, DEAD-CAN-DANCE!

The nub of the whole problem here can be summed up in the maxim, ”Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.”

You can’t psychotically claim to have a personal line to an imaginary Jew Dune Coon in the ether, and then deny the same right to the Kwik-E-Mart clerks and Falasha factory fodder that you self-indulgently import, on the grounds that their near identical numistic ideas only are delusional and a danger to the paranoid schizophrenics of the first inst.

Particularly when the same Jew worshipping society will forcibly sedate and put you in a padded cell for talking to imaginary human identities.

The solution is to treat "religion" the same as the worst kind of pornography.

After all, more kids are killed, tortured, and permanently mentally scarred (just look around here!) by religion than by all the paedophiles and perverts who ever lived put together.

Personally I'm all in favour of bashing ALL proselytising religionists half-to-death and then dragging their conscious bodies behind us Bad Ol' Boys pickup trucks until their senseless Simian head detaches.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

if you took the stats of the entire world for religious discrimination, I belive the evidence would show many time more violence and persecution against non-muslims then muslims.

Thank you for the clarification. However, you’re still wrong. Hate crime arrests of an anti-Christian nature, are neither non-existent, nor are they rare “exceptions”. Leaving aside anti-jewish hate crimes, hate crimes against protestants and catholics are traditionally the most reported anti-religious hate crime in the united states.

Now, most religious hate crimes investigated in the U.S., are traditionally overwhelmingly anti-Jewish in nature --typically, 70-80% of all the anti-religious hate crimes are anti-jewish. Obviously, because Jews have been more targeted throughout history than any other religion. That's simply a given, that the vast majority of hate crimes will be anti-jewish.

But, prior to 9/11, the number of hate crimes against Christians reported by the FBI far exceeded the number of hate crimes reported and investigated against muslims.



Your assertion, that hate crimes against Christians virtually never are reported, or are a rare exception was incorrect.

 

[Chips Rafferty]

The difference between religion and pornograpy is. Pornography has no re-deeming value, it cheapens sex, the actors involved and those who watch it, while religion has more messages of love then hate, and should i say the same vile things about every muslim, white man, black man, asisan man because some commit crimes in the name of their religion, race, or pure ignorance.

Ignorance is ignorance, it is not confined to religion, and religion is not the problem , people are.


I really find what you say offensive, un-true, and hateful.

Ditto.

By the same self-righteous reckoning that self-declared decent folk de-rigueurly condemn(ed) ALL Nazis, Japs, Iraqis, Afghans, Chows, Coons, Boongs, Slopes, indeed ALL “Mud People” – but in particular all Bolshevik sub-humans and their consanguine atheists - as evil, I quite socially acceptably and CREDIBLY denounce you as an unbelievably evil piece of Judeo-Christian shit, deserving of the most dreadful death imaginable, because your God is demonstrably much more evil than ALL of the preceding creeds.

DIE, DECENT SWINE, DIE!!

 

[DeadCanDance]

America is a predominantly christian nation. Did you forget that?. And you dont think burning the flag is un-patriotic?, and burning of the american flag by foreign and home grown terrorists, of israeli and american flags, is clearly intended to strike fear into american hearts. The fact you have to attack christians and white people exclusively, even though america is made up of other races and religions, shows how flawed your argument is, and we had sedition laws, so it was a crime at once time, and probably should be now.

This post is so dishonest, I don't even know where to begin.

And you dont think burning the flag is un-patriotic?

You obviously didn't even bother to read my post.

America is a predominantly christian nation. Did you forget that?.

What's that got to do with anything. The constitution protects the right of all citizens to practice any faith of their choice, free of intimidation and discrimination. Even minority religions.

and burning of the american flag by foreign and home grown terrorists, of israeli and american flags, is clearly intended to strike fear into american hearts

What's that got to do with the thread? Our laws don't apply in Pakistan or Egypt. We have no contol over someone in pakistan burning an american flag. And do you really quake in fear if some punk in pakistan burns an american flag? Get some courage, and quit wetting the bed will you? It may piss me off, but it doesn't make me afraid.

he fact you have to attack christians and white people exclusively, even though america is made up of other races and religions, shows how flawed your argument is,

again, you never even read my posts. Please show me one single post of mine where I attacked white people or christians. And if you can't find a quote, please come back and admit you invented this slur out of whole cloth.

I specifically said that Christian Churches should, and are protected by hate crimes laws. I don't believe any punks should desecrate a church with the intent of intimidating christians. Those punks should be prosectued under hate crimes laws, where appropriate.

Please try actually reading my post next time, instead of inventing things that I did not say.

 

[Edward]

So since you support hate laws on hate crimes does that mean I can bring charges against you for your "hatred" of anyone that doesn't believe what you do?

There is a difference between prosecuting someone for "hatred" and prosecuting someone for committing a "crime because of that hatred." The one we do not condone or approve of and prosecute as hate crimes. To merely prosecute hate crimes as any other crime doesn't get to the core issue of how the group being intimidated feels after being the target of multiple hate crimes. The victim isn't just one person but an entire group of people. Hating someone is just the opinion of a person and we don't prosecute them for their opinions, their speech or their lawful actions regardless of whether they are hateful, mean or rude. This man didn't just hate someone or express his hate in words instead he committed a hate crime against an entire group of people through his criminal actions.

Nothing I have said is a hate crime because expressing my opinion whether hateful or not is not illegal and is protected under the first amendment (this man could have told every Muslim he met that he hated them and not broken any laws) but taking a Qu'ran and flushing it down the toilet is a crime of criminal mischief and aggravated assault and because the intent was to intimidate an entire group of people based on hate it becomes a hate crime. It isn't a mere act of criminal mischief or aggravated assault instead it is intended to create fear on the campus. Simply slapping this man on the wrist and giving his some sensitivity training is offensive to those who are affected by his crimes. This wasn't a victimless crime. It was a crime against every Muslim on that campus. Allowing him to get away with it and only imposing minor punishment on him only gives more people the idea of doing the same sort of thing but when the targets of these actions react violently or protest people like you condemn them for it. The man gets to break the law and to do so to intimidate an entire group of people and they must simply accept it and do nothing because if they do something about it we will prosecute them for committing a crime.

The charges against this man isn't hatred of anyone who doesn't believe as he does instead they are criminal mischief and aggravated assault which are additionally hate crimes because of his motive. I DO NOT NOW NOR WILL I EVER SUPPORT ANY LAW AGAINST AN OPINION OR FEELING. Hate crimes do not make hate illegal (i.e., you are free to hate whomever you want and to say as much) instead they make the criminal actions of people based on hate punishable under the law according to the motive. It isn't simple vandalism to write "fucking ******" on a black man's vehicle or "Jews should be exterminated" on the front lawn of a Jew. THESE ARE HATE CRIMES AND THEY SHOULD BE PUNISHED ACCORDINGLY BECAUSE THEIR MOTIVE IS TO INSTILL FEAR IN A GROUP OF PEOPLE. It isn't simple arson to go around a state burning Christian churches. Every Christian in that state would be right to fear going to Church. Their quality of life declines and they live in a constant state of fear as a result. What Jew would feel safe knowing that the only punishment for men who vandalize their property with racial insults is the same as a kid who writes a little graffiti on their exterior wall. The one is a minor nuisance and the Jew like everyone else would want the kid punished for defacing their property but the other is far worst especially when it is part of a systematic attempt to intimidate a group of people. What Christian would feel safe knowing that when a person is captured for burning 13 Churches that their only sentence will be for arson. What black person whose car is vandalized with "fucking ******" would feel safe knowing that the only punishment the person will receive is for vandalism. A simple slap on the wrist creates a climate of fear and intimidation where every day someone can choose to go beyond expressing themselves to committing hate crimes (i.e., regular crimes whose motive is to intimidate a group of people) and the only justice for the victims is so narrow that people don't fear punishment and the victims continue to live in fear. Who is to say that the next man won't say do the same? And the next man? And the next man? Until the point comes that people are so fearful that their quality of life is affected. One racist after seeing a man prosecuted for vandalism and receiving community service and sensitivity training as a result of him writing "fucking ******" on a black persons vehicle will feel inclined to do the same. In his eyes what's a little community service to "teach those ******* a lesson." We treat these types of crimes more seriously because they undermine our democratic process and if allowed to get out of control will result in people taking the law into their own hands.

 

[Edward]

America is a predominantly christian nation. Did you forget that?. And you dont think burning the flag is un-patriotic?, and burning of the american flag by foreign and home grown terrorists, of israeli and american flags, is clearly intended to strike fear into american hearts. The fact you have to attack christians and white people exclusively, even though america is made up of other races and religions, shows how flawed your argument is, and we had sedition laws, so it was a crime at once time, and probably should be now.

He never said that burning the flag wasn't un-patriotic. In fact, he said the exact opposite. But it is a protected right and you can burn the flag all you want so long as you don't burn other people's flag. You can burn your copy of the Qu'ran, the Bible or anything else you see fit. These aren't crimes and aren't punishable under the law and are protected under the first amendment but there are crimes that when violated become hate crimes based on their intent to intimidate a group of people. Burning the flag is protected under the Constitution regardless if they instill fear in Americans. Burning the Qu'ran is protected under the Constitution even if it instills fear in Muslims. It isn't a crime to put the Qu'ran in the toilet because it intimidates Muslims. Instead, it is a crime to put it in a public toilet (i.e., criminal mischief and aggravated assault). Period. The act itself isn't a hate crime. In fact, it may not be a hate crime at all to put something in the toilet. It is a crime. It becomes a hate crime based on its intent to intimidate a group of people. BURNING THE AMERICAN FLAG OR YOUR COPY OF THE QU'RAN ISN'T A CRIME AND THEREFORE CANNOT BE A HATE CRIME. That you cannot grasp this difference proves how retarded you are. It's not now nor will it ever be a crime to hate nor will it be a crime to express your hatred in a legal and constitutional manner. A person marching in a political protest who burns the American flag has a constitutional right to do so and anyone who infringes on that right whether a voter or an officer of government is a terrorist who seeks to use the flag and the government to terrorize those who disagree with them politically about the very government under which we all live. If a person cannot burn the flag of the country they live in than they are not free. If they cannot object to our form of govenrment than they are not free. If they cannot express their anger or rage as those who they see as violating their rights and using the flag as a weapon against them than they are not free.