Has Western Civilization Died?

[Madeline]

Okay, not really, but I was at the county library today to pick up a copy of Sinclair Lewis' "Elmer Gantry" and they had none. Not one copy of any book by Lewis. Nor did the city library branch near my house...the librarian had to order it for me from the state-wide system.

They have the collected works of Danielle Steele, but nothing by Sinclair Lewis? Last month I wanted a biography of Joe McCarthy and not only did my branch not have one, none could be had even from the state-wide system. I don't mean just the title I wanted; there was no copy of any biography of Joe McCarthy anywhere in the Ohio state system. I had to buy it (and may donate it when I have finished reading it). The month before that, I discovered the library does not stock any of Aanis Nin's works.

I ♥ my library but really, this trend (if it is one; could just be I'm hitting some gaps in acquisition that weren't planned) disturbs me. IMO, reading anything -- even a Harrlequin romance -- is good, but there should be at least some shelf space allocated to better literature. It seems their policy might be more akin to acquiring new popular literature and -- dumping? -- fine older works.

There's an apparent gap in the non-fiction section as well, though I cannot give you chapter and verse. I just know non-fiction gets about 1/10th the shelf space of fiction and that the acquisition of important new works is spotty at best.

I know I should be grateful I have a library of any kind, and I am. But after all the platitudes, I am concerned that the modern appetite for books is being fed mostly beach trash reading, and so little effort is made to even make better work available.

What say you?

 

[California Girl]

Unfortunately, most library users can't cope with big words and complex thoughts. So they stick with Danielle Steel and call that 'reading'.

 

[Annie]

Okay, not really, but I was at the county library today to pick up a copy of Sinclair Lewis' "Elmer Gantry" and they had none. Not one copy of any book by Lewis. Nor did the city library branch near my house...the librarian had to order it for me from the state-wide system.

They have the collected works of Danielle Steele, but nothing by Sinclair Lewis? Last month I wanted a biography of Joe McCarthy and not only did my branch not have one, none could be had even from the state-wide system. I don't mean just the title I wanted; there was no copy of any biography of Joe McCarthy anywhere in the Ohio state system. I had to buy it (and may donate it when I have finished reading it). The month before that, I discovered the library does not stock any of Aanis Nin's works.

I ♥ my library but really, this trend (if it is one; could just be I'm hitting some gaps in acquisition that weren't planned) disturbs me. IMO, reading anything -- even a Harrlequin romance -- is good, but there should be at least some shelf space allocated to better literature. It seems their policy might be more akin to acquiring new popular literature and -- dumping? -- fine older works.

There's an apparent gap in the non-fiction section as well, though I cannot give you chapter and verse. I just know non-fiction gets about 1/10th the shelf space of fiction and that the acquisition of important new works is spotty at best.

I know I should be grateful I have a library of any kind, and I am. But after all the platitudes, I am concerned that the modern appetite for books is being fed mostly beach trash reading, and so little effort is made to even make better work available.

What say you?

You're in Cleveland? I'm in a suburb and doing a search for Sinclair Lewis brought forth 2 pages of hits:

Wheaton Public Library /All Locations

Anis Nin brought in 37 hits, alas top one being a cookbook.

As for Western Civilization? Interesting that you mentioned, it's been over a decade since I took it as a course, so wanted to review. Doing so with course from Notre Dame, also checked out of local library:

Wheaton Public Library /MOVIES

video, with book and notes. 4 Volumes.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Okay, not really, but I was at the county library today to pick up a copy of Sinclair Lewis' "Elmer Gantry" and they had none. Not one copy of any book by Lewis. Nor did the city library branch near my house...the librarian had to order it for me from the state-wide system.

They have the collected works of Danielle Steele, but nothing by Sinclair Lewis? Last month I wanted a biography of Joe McCarthy and not only did my branch not have one, none could be had even from the state-wide system. I don't mean just the title I wanted; there was no copy of any biography of Joe McCarthy anywhere in the Ohio state system. I had to buy it (and may donate it when I have finished reading it). The month before that, I discovered the library does not stock any of Aanis Nin's works.

I ♥ my library but really, this trend (if it is one; could just be I'm hitting some gaps in acquisition that weren't planned) disturbs me. IMO, reading anything -- even a Harrlequin romance -- is good, but there should be at least some shelf space allocated to better literature. It seems their policy might be more akin to acquiring new popular literature and -- dumping? -- fine older works.

There's an apparent gap in the non-fiction section as well, though I cannot give you chapter and verse. I just know non-fiction gets about 1/10th the shelf space of fiction and that the acquisition of important new works is spotty at best.

I know I should be grateful I have a library of any kind, and I am. But after all the platitudes, I am concerned that the modern appetite for books is being fed mostly beach trash reading, and so little effort is made to even make better work available.

What say you?

sadly, i have no room to talk.

i read complete tripe.






on this board.

 

[editec]

Project Gutenberg might be a good place to find something to read.

Project Gutenberg - free ebooks online download for iPad, Kindle, Nook, Android, iPhone, iPod Touch, Sony Reader

 

[Madeline]

Annie wrote:

You're in Cleveland? I'm in a suburb and doing a search for Sinclair Lewis brought forth 2 pages of hits:

Wheaton Public Library /All Locations

Anis Nin brought in 37 hits, alas top one being a cookbook.

As for Western Civilization? Interesting that you mentioned, it's been over a decade since I took it as a course, so wanted to review. Doing so with course from Notre Dame, also checked out of local library:

Wheaton Public Library /MOVIES

video, with book and notes. 4 Volumes.

I'm in Old Brooklyn, Annie. I wonder why your city-suburb ain't part of the state-wide system? Prolly to keep us poor west siders from grubbing up your books, LOL. BTW, I give up -- my Google-Fu failed me. Where's Wheaton? South of Cleveland?

 

[Madeline]

Project Gutenberg might be a good place to find something to read.

Project Gutenberg - free ebooks online download for iPad, Kindle, Nook, Android, iPhone, iPod Touch, Sony Reader

I covet an iPad, editec. I nearly bought one this summer; I was replacing the pc and mentioned to my brother that I was considering going with an iPad. He blew a gasket and ran out and bought me a desk top, convinced if I had anything portable I would drop it and break on Day One. The man is a tad over-protective, he he he.

Since then I have frittered my money away; mebbe next spring. I'll tell ya this, none of those offers to get one for free in exchange for taking a survey seems to pay off, LOL.

 

[Annie]

Annie wrote:

You're in Cleveland? I'm in a suburb and doing a search for Sinclair Lewis brought forth 2 pages of hits:

Wheaton Public Library /All Locations

Anis Nin brought in 37 hits, alas top one being a cookbook.

As for Western Civilization? Interesting that you mentioned, it's been over a decade since I took it as a course, so wanted to review. Doing so with course from Notre Dame, also checked out of local library:

Wheaton Public Library /MOVIES

video, with book and notes. 4 Volumes.

I'm in Old Brooklyn, Annie. I wonder why your city-suburb ain't part of the state-wide system? Prolly to keep us poor west siders from grubbing up your books, LOL. BTW, I give up -- my Google-Fu failed me. Where's Wheaton? South of Cleveland?

Suburb of Chicago. We don't have a state-wide library system, that I'm aware of. We are part of a area wide system.

L2 [Library Learning] DuPage Library System

 

[Madeline]

Annie wrote:

You're in Cleveland? I'm in a suburb and doing a search for Sinclair Lewis brought forth 2 pages of hits:

Wheaton Public Library /All Locations

Anis Nin brought in 37 hits, alas top one being a cookbook.

As for Western Civilization? Interesting that you mentioned, it's been over a decade since I took it as a course, so wanted to review. Doing so with course from Notre Dame, also checked out of local library:

Wheaton Public Library /MOVIES

video, with book and notes. 4 Volumes.

I'm in Old Brooklyn, Annie. I wonder why your city-suburb ain't part of the state-wide system? Prolly to keep us poor west siders from grubbing up your books, LOL. BTW, I give up -- my Google-Fu failed me. Where's Wheaton? South of Cleveland?

Suburb of Chicago. We don't have a state-wide library system, that I'm aware of. We are part of a area wide system.

L2 [Library Learning] DuPage Library System

O LOL. Explains why "wheaton ohio" brought back zero results!

 

[Annie]

I'm in Old Brooklyn, Annie. I wonder why your city-suburb ain't part of the state-wide system? Prolly to keep us poor west siders from grubbing up your books, LOL. BTW, I give up -- my Google-Fu failed me. Where's Wheaton? South of Cleveland?

Suburb of Chicago. We don't have a state-wide library system, that I'm aware of. We are part of a area wide system.

L2 [Library Learning] DuPage Library System

O LOL. Explains why "wheaton ohio" brought back zero results!

Your location says Cleveland, which is why I was shocked by your results. I think I'd go mad without decent library.

 

[Madeline]

Annie wrote:

Your location says Cleveland, which is why I was shocked by your results. I think I'd go mad without decent library.

I have been noticing this sort of problem for about a year, Annie. It isn't so much that I can't afford to buy books....I guess I could, but who can store all of them? I just took it for granted anything I wanted would be there, or if not there, at least available to be ordered.

I know this is a poor county and city, and there are other priorities, but I am mystified as to why a library cannot keep a book. I waited weeks to get Erica Jong's "Fear Of Flying" earlier this year -- one copy in all of the statewide system. These are not "fluff" books...these should be the foundation pieces, IMO. "Sisterhood Is Powerful" was the same story.

We seem to have the cash to buy every rap CD that comes out. I know consumer demand has to drive acquisitions, but gheesh...this hardly seems balanced or in the community's best interests.

 

[asterism]

Annie wrote:

Your location says Cleveland, which is why I was shocked by your results. I think I'd go mad without decent library.

I have been noticing this sort of problem for about a year, Annie. It isn't so much that I can't afford to buy books....I guess I could, but who can store all of them? I just took it for granted anything I wanted would be there, or if not there, at least available to be ordered.

I know this is a poor county and city, and there are other priorities, but I am mystified as to why a library cannot keep a book. I waited weeks to get Erica Jong's "Fear Of Flying" earlier this year -- one copy in all of the statewide system. These are not "fluff" books...these should be the foundation pieces, IMO. "Sisterhood Is Powerful" was the same story.

We seem to have the cash to buy every rap CD that comes out. I know consumer demand has to drive acquisitions, but gheesh...this hardly seems balanced or in the community's best interests.

Perhaps a look at the checkout history of these books would answer your question. Libraries are outdated, expensive, and no longer primarily purposed as the primary reading and research facilities anymore. Kudos to your library for responding to that lack of demand. They need to provide a better method of access for special requests (like maybe Amazon.com) though.

I was at an informal city meeting where I ran into someone who despises me for my opinion that if we're going to spend millions to provide a place for the homeless to get out of the heat we should note that in the budget. If we're going to spend millions on a community outreach center we should note that in the budget. I didn't bring it up this time, I asked about data on usage rates per book and per category. Magazines are popular and reference materials aren't, but the reference materials (already outdated by the time they are printed, bound, and delivered) are by far more expensive. In fact, there is a special category of reference materials (Westlaw) that cost over $10,000 per year per title and because they are so expensive they are housed in a limited access area. Anyone can ask to use them, but an employee has to go get them. After 5 years (possibly longer, but the data only went back 5 years) not a single person working in the library that day even knew where they were.

The conversation turned into how much it would cost to provide 50 Kindles, some restrooms, a cool space to house them, and $200 per user per year to buy books. The Librarian (who despises me) then said that we couldn't give these expensive electronics to homeless people and that a library is more than a room to sit and read, it's also a comprehensive community outreach program.

Oops.

 

[Annie]

Annie wrote:

Your location says Cleveland, which is why I was shocked by your results. I think I'd go mad without decent library.

I have been noticing this sort of problem for about a year, Annie. It isn't so much that I can't afford to buy books....I guess I could, but who can store all of them? I just took it for granted anything I wanted would be there, or if not there, at least available to be ordered.

I know this is a poor county and city, and there are other priorities, but I am mystified as to why a library cannot keep a book. I waited weeks to get Erica Jong's "Fear Of Flying" earlier this year -- one copy in all of the statewide system. These are not "fluff" books...these should be the foundation pieces, IMO. "Sisterhood Is Powerful" was the same story.

We seem to have the cash to buy every rap CD that comes out. I know consumer demand has to drive acquisitions, but gheesh...this hardly seems balanced or in the community's best interests.

I just checked on 'Fear of Flying,' there's two copies, last returned in Sept. both currently on shelves.

In general the libraries around here are very good. Ours is excellent. I've requested many books and they've always ordered them within a month or two and call when they've come in. Only time I needed the 'cooperative lending' was when doing graduate research and didn't want to traipse back and forth to university. Most colleges and universities around here on on the system.

A few weeks ago I asked whether they would get 'Bones' tv series from past. They did. Can checkout a tv series for $1, 5 nights. Pretty cool. I'm done with Dexter.

 

[Madeline]

Annie wrote:

Your location says Cleveland, which is why I was shocked by your results. I think I'd go mad without decent library.

I have been noticing this sort of problem for about a year, Annie. It isn't so much that I can't afford to buy books....I guess I could, but who can store all of them? I just took it for granted anything I wanted would be there, or if not there, at least available to be ordered.

I know this is a poor county and city, and there are other priorities, but I am mystified as to why a library cannot keep a book. I waited weeks to get Erica Jong's "Fear Of Flying" earlier this year -- one copy in all of the statewide system. These are not "fluff" books...these should be the foundation pieces, IMO. "Sisterhood Is Powerful" was the same story.

We seem to have the cash to buy every rap CD that comes out. I know consumer demand has to drive acquisitions, but gheesh...this hardly seems balanced or in the community's best interests.

Perhaps a look at the checkout history of these books would answer your question. Libraries are outdated, expensive, and no longer primarily purposed as the primary reading and research facilities anymore. Kudos to your library for responding to that lack of demand. They need to provide a better method of access for special requests (like maybe Amazon.com) though.

I was at an informal city meeting where I ran into someone who despises me for my opinion that if we're going to spend millions to provide a place for the homeless to get out of the heat we should note that in the budget. If we're going to spend millions on a community outreach center we should note that in the budget. I didn't bring it up this time, I asked about data on usage rates per book and per category. Magazines are popular and reference materials aren't, but the reference materials (already outdated by the time they are printed, bound, and delivered) are by far more expensive. In fact, there is a special category of reference materials (Westlaw) that cost over $10,000 per year per title and because they are so expensive they are housed in a limited access area. Anyone can ask to use them, but an employee has to go get them. After 5 years (possibly longer, but the data only went back 5 years) not a single person working in the library that day even knew where they were.

The conversation turned into how much it would cost to provide 50 Kindles, some restrooms, a cool space to house them, and $200 per user per year to buy books. The Librarian (who despises me) then said that we couldn't give these expensive electronics to homeless people and that a library is more than a room to sit and read, it's also a comprehensive community outreach program.

Oops.

You sound like a firebrand, asterism! Good for you for prodding the old fashioned into the 21st century. I'm sorry if I sound like an old fuddy duddy, whining about "when I was a girl".

BTW, I cannot believe any library still acquires reference books on law from Westlaw. I assume your $10,000 cost does not include the cost of paying a library rat to do the constant updating? You should get a quote from Westlaw on discounted access to westlaw.com and throw those books away.

That space would make a nice "community outreach center" I bet.

*Laughs*

 

[psikeyhackr]

There is another trend called Project Gutenberg.

It may be a problem for the libraries.

Lewis, Sinclair, 1885-1951

* Babbitt
* Free Air
* The Innocents: A Story for Lovers
* The Job: An American Novel
* Main Street
* Our Mr. Wrenn, the Romantic Adventures of a Gentle Man
* The Trail of the Hawk: A Comedy of the Seriousness of Life

Browse By Author: L - Project Gutenberg

It is open to question what the cyber-civilization will become.

psik

 

[Si modo]

Annie wrote:

You're in Cleveland? I'm in a suburb and doing a search for Sinclair Lewis brought forth 2 pages of hits:

Wheaton Public Library /All Locations

Anis Nin brought in 37 hits, alas top one being a cookbook.

As for Western Civilization? Interesting that you mentioned, it's been over a decade since I took it as a course, so wanted to review. Doing so with course from Notre Dame, also checked out of local library:

Wheaton Public Library /MOVIES

video, with book and notes. 4 Volumes.

I'm in Old Brooklyn, Annie. I wonder why your city-suburb ain't part of the state-wide system? Prolly to keep us poor west siders from grubbing up your books, LOL. BTW, I give up -- my Google-Fu failed me. Where's Wheaton? South of Cleveland?

Wheaton is in IL. Outside of Chicago. So, I suppose Annie is a west sider of Cleveland, OH.

 

[Douger]

It's almost dead. The batteries on the respirator/bailouts are failing.
As Western Civilization Lies Dying

 

[American Horse]

O Last month I wanted a biography of Joe McCarthy and not only did my branch not have one, none could be had even from the state-wide system. I don't mean just the title I wanted; there was no copy of any biography of Joe McCarthy anywhere in the Ohio state system. I had to buy it (and may donate it when I have finished reading it). The month before that, I discovered the library does not stock any of Aanis Nin's works.

You should be worried ...

Quoting from "Blacklisted By History" by M. Stanton Evans:

"As these papers were part of an-official proceeding of tthe Senarte--and as we know from other sources they were in fact provided - they should all be in ghe Tydings archive.

Again, however, so far as diligent search reveals, all of them are missing, with no explanation of what happened to them, no hint that they were ever there, and no withdrawal notice. They are simply gone. Since they were documents central to any assessment of McCarthy's charges, their absence is a critical gap in the archival record. That absence , it bears noting, affects more than our understanding of Joe McCarthy. It affects our knowledge of the issue he was addressing, and thus our comprehension of the Cold War era. "

Here's A Posting on USMB that attempted to deal with this issue. If you look further along in this thread you will discover part of the reason that information in the public forum is discouraged from appearing. This discouragement takes on a strong resemblance of "religious zeal"

Where do you come down in the willingness of some to suppress any open presentation of information?

 

[asterism]

I have been noticing this sort of problem for about a year, Annie. It isn't so much that I can't afford to buy books....I guess I could, but who can store all of them? I just took it for granted anything I wanted would be there, or if not there, at least available to be ordered.

I know this is a poor county and city, and there are other priorities, but I am mystified as to why a library cannot keep a book. I waited weeks to get Erica Jong's "Fear Of Flying" earlier this year -- one copy in all of the statewide system. These are not "fluff" books...these should be the foundation pieces, IMO. "Sisterhood Is Powerful" was the same story.

We seem to have the cash to buy every rap CD that comes out. I know consumer demand has to drive acquisitions, but gheesh...this hardly seems balanced or in the community's best interests.

Perhaps a look at the checkout history of these books would answer your question. Libraries are outdated, expensive, and no longer primarily purposed as the primary reading and research facilities anymore. Kudos to your library for responding to that lack of demand. They need to provide a better method of access for special requests (like maybe Amazon.com) though.

I was at an informal city meeting where I ran into someone who despises me for my opinion that if we're going to spend millions to provide a place for the homeless to get out of the heat we should note that in the budget. If we're going to spend millions on a community outreach center we should note that in the budget. I didn't bring it up this time, I asked about data on usage rates per book and per category. Magazines are popular and reference materials aren't, but the reference materials (already outdated by the time they are printed, bound, and delivered) are by far more expensive. In fact, there is a special category of reference materials (Westlaw) that cost over $10,000 per year per title and because they are so expensive they are housed in a limited access area. Anyone can ask to use them, but an employee has to go get them. After 5 years (possibly longer, but the data only went back 5 years) not a single person working in the library that day even knew where they were.

The conversation turned into how much it would cost to provide 50 Kindles, some restrooms, a cool space to house them, and $200 per user per year to buy books. The Librarian (who despises me) then said that we couldn't give these expensive electronics to homeless people and that a library is more than a room to sit and read, it's also a comprehensive community outreach program.

Oops.

You sound like a firebrand, asterism! Good for you for prodding the old fashioned into the 21st century. I'm sorry if I sound like an old fuddy duddy, whining about "when I was a girl".

I'm a thorn in the side of our local bureaucrats who constantly lie about why they do what they do and how much it all costs. Our library laid off 2 people and then got an emergency last minute funding allocation (by public demand) to keep them. Nobody ever considered cancelling the West subscription.

I have no issue with people expressing nostalgia, just as you have no issue with people looking forward.

BTW, I cannot believe any library still acquires reference books on law from Westlaw. I assume your $10,000 cost does not include the cost of paying a library rat to do the constant updating?

Correct.

You should get a quote from Westlaw on discounted access to westlaw.com and throw those books away.

That's blasphemy to a librarian and it's the beginning of the end for this one since she has, and I quote, "no use for technology in research." How funny is that? In the end this is really all about protecting a fiefdom. Without all the books nobody reads there is no need to have the staff that maintains them, nor the space where they are kept. Without all the staff and the large budget there is no need to pay for a manager that has experience managing an organization of that size.

Someone won't get a six figure salary and a six figure pension.

And this is for just one little library in just one little town.

Oh and we went back to that homeless and community center justification and I asked whether anyone at the library had any experience in social work. That didn't go over well either. "So we need librarians to run a library that's really a community center that doesn't employ social workers."

That space would make a nice "community outreach center" I bet.

*Laughs*

It actually would. They've proposed adding 10,000 sqft. for just that purpose at the bargain basement price of $5 million (for a town of less than 50,000 people) plus an extra $600,000 for extra maintenance and employees.

Stick the books we have that have been used less than twice this year in the empty climate-controlled warehouse across the street, have two people on staff to walk over there to get the requested books (right now they walk with you around to library to show you where it is), use the new free space as the community center, and hire some social workers who also understand the card catalog.

But again, it all comes back to justifying a certain salary scale and that's the problem.

The supervisor of the librarian loses if the budget of one of her employees gets cut too, as does the other two supervisors above her.

And then there's the parks.....