Has The Army Underestimated Its Equipment Needs?

NATO AIR

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2004
4,275
285
48
USS Abraham Lincoln
in relation to iraq and the humvee armor story that's been passed around the past week

again, this isn't bush's fault, its the same military supply craziness that has driven presidents since washington nuts...

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=a4YojZM1phgM&refer=news_index

Armor Holdings Could Boost Humvee Armor Output 22% (Update4)
Dec. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Armor Holdings Inc., the sole supplier of protective plates for the Humvee military vehicles used in Iraq, said it could increase output by as much as 22 percent per month with no investment and is awaiting an order from the Army.

U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said yesterday the Army was working as fast as it can and supply is dictated by ``a matter of physics, not a matter of money.'' A Pentagon spokeswoman declined comment.

Jacksonville, Florida-based Armor Holdings last month told the Army it could add armor to as many as 550 of the trucks a month, up from 450 vehicles now, Robert Mecredy, president of the company's aerospace and defense group, said in an interview today.

``We're prepared to build 50 to 100 vehicles more per month,'' Mecredy said in the telephone interview. ``I've told the customer that and I stand ready to do that.''

Insurgent attacks on the vehicles with homemade bombs and rocket-propelled grenades account for as much as half of the more than 1,000 U.S. deaths and 9,000 U.S. wounded in Iraq, and have fueled criticism by members of Congress such as Representative Ellen Tauscher, a California Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, that the Pentagon didn't adequately equip U.S. troops.

Tesia William, a spokeswoman for the Army Materiel Command, which handles the armored Humvee program, had no immediate comment on the status of orders.

`Best Possible Equipment'

President George W. Bush said concerns raised by soldiers in questions to Rumsfeld yesterday in Kuwait are being addressed,'' Bush said in response to a reporter's question. ``We expect our troops to have the best possible equipment. If I were a soldier overseas wanting to defend my country I'd want to ask the Secretary of Defense the same question, and that is are we getting the best'' equipment, he said. ``They deserve the best.''

U.S. troops preparing for deployment to Iraq told Rumsfeld yesterday in Kuwait that they are salvaging armor from landfills to install ``hillbilly armor'' on their Humvees. Rumsfeld replied that ``you have to go to war with the Army you have.''

Senator Chris Dodd, a Connecticut Democrat, called Rumsfeld's remarks ``unacceptable'' in a letter sent to the secretary.

``Our troops go to war with the Army that our nation's leaders provide,'' Dodd wrote. ``Our military should spare no expense to ensure the safety of our troops, particularly as they confront a hostile insurgency and roadside bombs throughout Iraq.''

Higher Output

Armor Holdings has already boosted output from 60 vehicles per month a year ago, said Mecredy, 58. As a result of the increased output, Armor Holdings has cut the price for the armor its supplies for the trucks to $58,000 per vehicle, from $72,000 per vehicle a year ago, Mecredy said.

Shares of Armor Holdings rose $1.82, or 4.5 percent in New York Stock Exchange composite trading at 12:37 p.m.

When he was asked about current production yesterday, Rumsfeld said he wasn't sure of the exact figure. ``It's something like 400 a month are being done,'' he said.

``It's a matter of production and capability of doing it,'' Rumsfeld, 72, said.

Making the armor has to be coordinated with output of the actual trucks by AM General LLC of South Bend, Indiana, Mecredy said. AM General spokesman Lee Woodward also said that truck output could also be increased.

`Not Close to Capacity'

``If they ordered more trucks, we'd build more trucks,'' Woodward said. ``We're not close to capacity. It might take some time to ramp up but we can do it.''

Woodward declined to provide exact details on production capacity.

The main reason there isn't enough armor is because the military has underestimated its own needs, said Meghan Keck, spokeswoman for Senator Evan Bayh, an Indiana Democrat. Bayh wrote a letter to Rumsfeld in October calling for a more accurate estimate of Humvee needs.

``If the Army would be up front about the number of Humvees needed, the companies would be able to set their production accordingly to meet the need,'' Keck said in a phone interview.

At Camp Arifjan in Kuwait, Capt. George Petropoulos came up with a design for armor cut from steel plates bought locally or imported and welded on to Humvees.

``If an improvised explosive device hits the armored Humvee, it ``would destroy the vehicle but save a life,'' said Petropoulos, a 32-year-old reservist from Milwaukee, who commands the 172 Transportation Co., in an interview at Navistar, a staging area for convoys to Iraq.

To contact the reporter on this story:
Edmond Lococo in Boston at [email protected].

To contact the editor responsible for this story:
Rob Urban at [email protected].
Last Updated: December 9, 2004 12:40 EST
 
Obviously. No one guessed the IUD problem. But I read that they are rapidly addressing the issue. The folks who refused to carry out convoy orders due to a lack of armor were wrong. They should have sucked it up and follwed orders. The US Army is not a democracy.
 
onedomino said:
Obviously. No one guessed the IUD problem. But I read that they are rapidly addressing the issue. The folks who refused to carry out convoy orders due to a lack of armor were wrong. They should have sucked it up and follwed orders. The US Army is not a democracy.


great to see you around, how was montana?

yea, but my question for the army would be why the hell would they still be underestimating it nearly 2 years into this war?
 
Very nice to see you again NATO. I am in Denver for a few days and then back to Montana until the end of Jan. No net connection (other than slow dial-up) at the condo. My stay in Montana has been excellent. I have got a lot of work accomplished. My girlfriend and I are closer than ever. Plus, the early season snow (powder) has been sublime. Skiing Montana powder is like floating in clouds.
 
onedomino said:
Very nice to see you again NATO. I am in Denver for a few days and then back to Montana until the end of Jan. No net connection (other than slow dial-up) at the condo. My stay in Montana has been excellent. I have got a lot of work accomplished. My girlfriend and I are closer than ever. Plus, the early season snow (powder) has been sublime. Skiing Montana powder is like floating in clouds.

that is great news onedomino... i myself was in bozeman last week, i went skiing and ice skating for the first time in my life, and it was a blast.. a very nice place to get closer to the one you love, take care and enjoy yourself
 
Merry Christmas to you NATO and to all my friends at USMB. See you at the end of January.
 
NATO AIR said:
in relation to iraq and the humvee armor story that's been passed around the past week

again, this isn't bush's fault, its the same military supply craziness that has driven presidents since washington nuts...

The HMMWV (High-Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle) is a light, highly mobile, diesel-powered, four-wheel-drive vehicle equipped with an automatic transmission.

When anyone puts heavy armor on this high-mobility multipurpose wheeled vehicle you change it to a slow moving target like a tank. It is something like putting wings and propellers on the Bradley Tank.

hmmwv%203.jpg
 
ajwps said:
The HMMWV (High-Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle) is a light, highly mobile, diesel-powered, four-wheel-drive vehicle equipped with an automatic transmission.

When anyone puts heavy armor on this high-mobility multipurpose wheeled vehicle you change it to a slow moving target like a tank. It is something like putting wings and propellers on the Bradley Tank.

interesting point, so what does the army do?
 
Sir Evil said:
I think the bigger question here is what is being done about it? From what I have read so far that the equipment needs are in rapid process now.

Good point NATO, why has it taken so long? I think the insurgency expected was highly underestimated for one, and of course the fact that this is a very unconventional enemy.

understandably, rumsfield has a long way to go with reforming the military... perhaps this is one of those problems... inability to react quickly enough to developing trends
 
Sir Evil said:
Agreed! The fact that their acting on it though is a plus! You know though that you will never get a truth of honesty out of a good story though, first the media complains that Rumsfield didn't put enough troops in place, now they are angered that more troops have been sent! Rumsfield certainly has his work cut out for him!

yea, i just hope whoever is his eventual replacement (whether before bush's reign ends or not) is nearly as committed as he is...we do not need another les aspin or william cohen ruining DOD...
 
Sir Evil said:
I would certainly give a vote of confidence to Rumsfield, I think he is hard nosed kind of guy as well as capable!

i wouldn't disagree much, but i just think this transformation/reform isn't going to be finished by him... its just too mammoth a task, though he is laying the groundwork/foundation for it and i hope he continues to :teeth:
 
The US Military is too used to trying to fight the last war better then to looking to the future. Rumsfield is not like by the Pentagon because he's forcing them to think ahead and see what the future of warfare will be like in ten years or so.
 
Doc Holiday said:
The US Military is too used to trying to fight the last war better then to looking to the future. Rumsfield is not like by the Pentagon because he's forcing them to think ahead and see what the future of warfare will be like in ten years or so.

It is my hope that eventually Bush and Rumsfeld will understand that this WAR must be fought like any other war in history.

Massive attacks civilian populations protecting or coutenancing insurgents must be destroyed in massive strikes from the air followed by the army moving in and occupying territory. The generals must be able to make the decisions on the ground and not Washington.
 

Forum List

Back
Top