Has lying become more socially acceptable in the USA?

[JakeStarkey]

"multi-culturalism . . . which is nothing more than societal chaos." Please give some examples of how multi-culturalism has led to situational morality in American society. Then please equate being Christian with enthusiastically burning crosses, torturing people, and murdering people who are a different color and who want to vote.

I think your premise is wrong, Big Fitz. Last thing I want to do is to go back to the "morality" of the 1950s that undermined the ethos of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States.

 

[Big Fitz]

fitz, are you trying to blame lyiing on liberals and alluding that conservatives do not lie?

No, I'm blaming the concept of moral/ethical relativism, regardless of party and the unwillingness to discipline for lying as the problem.

the fact that it coincides with the rise of liberalism is not the point since liberalism is in both parties now renaming themselves progressives.. (the fact tat's what they always were not withstanding)

Without ethical standards a society cannot hold together. If moral judgments of 'good and evil' no one can be held account and justice is absent. No nation or society can survive that for long. They all fall into the chaos of rationalization and endless exceptions, ignoring the majority rule for personal gain.

That's what I'm talking about. You must have absolutes that apply to all the vast vast vast majority of the time. To be fair and just to the most people possible in the imperfect world as it is, should be the goal of government and society at large.

 

[007]

For all intents and purposes, yes, lying is very fashionable to the obama worshipers. They must think all his whopper lies are just the cats.

 

[uscitizen]

LOL, I knew some would make this a partisan issue.

Stupid sheeple.

 

[Greenbeard]

Ahh yes TV.

In leave it to beaver, Andy griffith, even Happy days Lying was a bad thing.
Now in current sitcoms even on the disney channel Lying is a major part of the shows.

It's been a while since I've caught reruns on TV Land, but wasn't much of the situational humor in I Love Lucy a product of her..."fibs"?

 

[uscitizen]

Ahh yes TV.

In leave it to beaver, Andy griffith, even Happy days Lying was a bad thing.
Now in current sitcoms even on the disney channel Lying is a major part of the shows.

It's been a while since I've caught reruns on TV Land, but wasn't much of the situational humor in I Love Lucy a product of her..."fibs"?

Lucy of I love lucy is the definition of justifiable homicide.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The opponents of multiculturalism believe somehow the 1950s represented a more moral America, greenbeard. The great majority of those still alive who were youngsters back then will remember fondly their own childhoods but also realize what a deep chasm existed because of race and ethnicity and sex. A different time, yes, a better time, no. As far as major league baseball, though, nothing interfered with fandom.

 

[uscitizen]

The coming of Soccer to America signified it's downfall?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Soccer is not American born, bred, and matured. Baseball has characterized American culture from before the Civil War. One truly understands America when one understands baseball.

 

[lizzie]

Has lying become more socially acceptable in the USA?

Discuss.

Yes, probably due to the growing trend toward belief in moral relativism.

 

[Kat]

Nothing I despise much more than a liar in general, or someone that lies to me. I tend to trust people by nature, and nothing hurts much worse than to find out I was lied to.
I can forgive, but would never trust that person again.

It seems to be more prevalent on message boards/online..and that is a shame, b/c if you befriend someone online, and they lie to you the hurt is the same.

 

[asterism]

You want to know why it's permissible to lie? I'll tell you..........

The people always look to the politicians to be statesmen and tell the truth. For the most part that was true for a while, but then they found that if they bent the truth just a little bit (after all.....they weren't lying outright), they could spin it towards favor for their candidate.

But......just like everything else, bending the truth was the exception, then it became the rule, and that is where the lies started.

Just like the GOP thinks Obama is a Kenyan Muslim, and over 31 percent of them believe this to be absolute gospel.

Just another example of someone getting sucked into their own spin machine.

I was with you until your "Just like the GOP" nonsense.

Physician, heal thyself.

The irony that you lie in an otherwise great post about the negative consequences of lying.

 

[asterism]

lying being accepted in society is the ethical slippery slope so many have warned about. If you do not teach it as being unacceptable and punishable, then be disciplined enough to enforce it, it will get worse and worse until the limit is reached and you WILL enforce standards on lying.

We have progressed to a point in this nation's history where criminals and traitors are allowed to go free because we as a society do not have the moral rectitude and outrage capable of punishing someone appropriately for doing horrible things. We've forgotten that without the switch (meaning painful punishment), the child quickly runs amok and grows up to be the sociopath they were permitted to be as a youth.

"It's all good", has been an expression that has forgiven uncountable acts of moral depravity and evil. As a society, we need to return to a time that a lying politician is drummed out of government forever. A businessman who cheats the public be punished in accordance to the scale of his crime. A sports hero be stripped of his position and lauds (Michael Vick was a good start).

A society that forgives everything for nothing will soon fall into chaos and be conquered by those who have not forgotten what the backbone of a strong society is: Discipline of clear moral codes and laws. This is something we have not done well as a nation since the 1950's and the pendulum is going to start swinging back the other way, as we've gone too far. We've thrown away our American Society since then... whittling it away with compassion for multi-culturalism which is nothing more than societal chaos. No nation can survive this for long. A dominant culture will win out and crush all the others. That is the way of things for all of human history.

Condemnation, shame, shunning, a certain demand for uniformity of discipline... all these things are unpleasant tools of a society with a strong ethical core. Without them, there is no threat to those who choose to disregard society's norms. Do we need to go back as far as we used to be say in Colonial times? No... There's a balance point somewhere in between we can find. But if this problem isn't addressed in a rational manner, it will be forced by an irrational manner and go too far.

Societies and cultures swing back and forth on this pendulum. You can see it throughout history in every nation that has lasted more than a couple centuries. We've come to the end of a VERY liberal and permissive time. The next few generations, suffering under the pains of excessive license will be swinging back the other way. The question is one of speed and scope. The more resistance to moving back to the more placid middle needs to lessen lest we all suffer more.

Interesting perspective.

I say that lying hasn't become any more or less prevalent, it's just that it's much easier to check up and call people out. It was bad form for individuals to record conversations and then publish the tapes, assuming they would make it past the editorial directors of the media. Now we have youtube and the blogosphere. We also have an increased text based interaction, where it's not possible to lie and completely get away with it.

In a strange way, this forces more honesty. Tomorrow's politicians are cognizant of what they say in email, on message boards, and on facebook. The days of paying off the bartender to forget a college incident are over.

Warts and all, we're really going to know who is sitting in the big chairs. Of course, then shit's going to hit the fan when we realize that we don't want antiseptic citizens who have never experienced life having that much power over us. But that is a problem our kids will have to solve.

 

[Samson]

Ever since the dept of doublespeak changed lying to misspoke it has lost a lot of its sting..

Moral Relativism opened Pandoras Box, and made every 8th grader a lawyer.

 

[uscitizen]

Which president started the misspoke crap?

 

[Samson]

Which president started the misspoke crap?

Define "is."

 

[asterism]

Ever since the dept of doublespeak changed lying to misspoke it has lost a lot of its sting..

Moral Relativism opened Pandoras Box, and made every 8th grader a lawyer.

I think moral relativism has always been around. We've had middle ages era Popes with kids!

Society is the same, the news coverage is just more detailed in my opinion.

 

[Big Fitz]

lying being accepted in society is the ethical slippery slope so many have warned about. If you do not teach it as being unacceptable and punishable, then be disciplined enough to enforce it, it will get worse and worse until the limit is reached and you WILL enforce standards on lying.

We have progressed to a point in this nation's history where criminals and traitors are allowed to go free because we as a society do not have the moral rectitude and outrage capable of punishing someone appropriately for doing horrible things. We've forgotten that without the switch (meaning painful punishment), the child quickly runs amok and grows up to be the sociopath they were permitted to be as a youth.

"It's all good", has been an expression that has forgiven uncountable acts of moral depravity and evil. As a society, we need to return to a time that a lying politician is drummed out of government forever. A businessman who cheats the public be punished in accordance to the scale of his crime. A sports hero be stripped of his position and lauds (Michael Vick was a good start).

A society that forgives everything for nothing will soon fall into chaos and be conquered by those who have not forgotten what the backbone of a strong society is: Discipline of clear moral codes and laws. This is something we have not done well as a nation since the 1950's and the pendulum is going to start swinging back the other way, as we've gone too far. We've thrown away our American Society since then... whittling it away with compassion for multi-culturalism which is nothing more than societal chaos. No nation can survive this for long. A dominant culture will win out and crush all the others. That is the way of things for all of human history.

Condemnation, shame, shunning, a certain demand for uniformity of discipline... all these things are unpleasant tools of a society with a strong ethical core. Without them, there is no threat to those who choose to disregard society's norms. Do we need to go back as far as we used to be say in Colonial times? No... There's a balance point somewhere in between we can find. But if this problem isn't addressed in a rational manner, it will be forced by an irrational manner and go too far.

Societies and cultures swing back and forth on this pendulum. You can see it throughout history in every nation that has lasted more than a couple centuries. We've come to the end of a VERY liberal and permissive time. The next few generations, suffering under the pains of excessive license will be swinging back the other way. The question is one of speed and scope. The more resistance to moving back to the more placid middle needs to lessen lest we all suffer more.

Interesting perspective.

I say that lying hasn't become any more or less prevalent, it's just that it's much easier to check up and call people out. It was bad form for individuals to record conversations and then publish the tapes, assuming they would make it past the editorial directors of the media. Now we have youtube and the blogosphere. We also have an increased text based interaction, where it's not possible to lie and completely get away with it.

In a strange way, this forces more honesty. Tomorrow's politicians are cognizant of what they say in email, on message boards, and on facebook. The days of paying off the bartender to forget a college incident are over.

Warts and all, we're really going to know who is sitting in the big chairs. Of course, then shit's going to hit the fan when we realize that we don't want antiseptic citizens who have never experienced life having that much power over us. But that is a problem our kids will have to solve.

You're talking about a tool to help foster honesty. In this sort of situation, you're right, it has the potential to do this, AND create better liars. We will adapt to hide our sins.

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking a fundamental character flaw that lying is no big deal. A societal issue which nations turn upon and societies grow or die.

Parents do not believe lying is a big deal or that it's cute or funny as kids, so when they get older, they think it still is. Now what if that young child lied to their parents face, and was caught and immediately punished and harshly in a meaningful way to that kid. And was every time they were caught lying. I'd hazard to say that it would tun them into very honest people.

That is where the character flaw is ingrained. Lying is not punished. I work with kids. When they lie to me, and I catch them on it, I expose them and put them on report. There are consequences for when they lie and know it. There are consequences when they are insubordinate too. Within a few months, of me busting their chops for misbehavior and lecturing them on what character is, they quickly become the best group of kids you can imagine. Because they know there is value in good character and punishment for bad.

This country hasn't laid down the law on our children for 30 years in most cases. Until that happens again, we will never get back to a moral nation. Now you may say that's harsh or mean or strict, and damn right it is. We've tried soft and forgiving and enabling and it got us into this mess with our children, and that's where this all starts.

In a way, thank GOD we're going to be going through some very harsh economic times. We can't afford the luxury of lying to ourselves and supporting bullshit. Our parents and grandparents who grew up with the ethics of the 'me' generation and passed them on to us would be shocked to discover their ethical lessons are going to die with out generations as we do not pass them on to our children for we have seen what an abysmal failure moral relativism, 'if it feels good, it is good' and "It's all good" have wrought in our society.

9/11 was a hard stop to the pendulum. stopped the cultural swing to the liberal short of it's final goal. Gravity is pulling it back down and it will swing the other way. It's about a roughly 75 year cycle when you look at it. From the 1790's to the 1860's. From the 1860's to the 1930's. From the 1930's to present. Liberal, conservative liberal... and now back to conservative. Each period brings it's improvements and curses. But sorry now, time says the epoch has ended, and time to move on the other way. Let's just hope it keeps improving.

 

[Big Fitz]

Ever since the dept of doublespeak changed lying to misspoke it has lost a lot of its sting..

Moral Relativism opened Pandoras Box, and made every 8th grader a lawyer.

I think moral relativism has always been around. We've had middle ages era Popes with kids!

Society is the same, the news coverage is just more detailed in my opinion.

Moral relativism is summed up best this way:

"Nothing is more important than my own ego. What I want and who I am is always good. To prevent the contradictions or consequences caused by doing something I know is objectively/absolutely wrong, I will rationalize them to protect me from facing their true nature."

This has always been around. No society ever survives when it becomes the basic philosophy. That is also a historical truth. For when all is exceptions and excuses for every action, you have anarchy and chaos, not society and order.

 

[asterism]

lying being accepted in society is the ethical slippery slope so many have warned about. If you do not teach it as being unacceptable and punishable, then be disciplined enough to enforce it, it will get worse and worse until the limit is reached and you WILL enforce standards on lying.

We have progressed to a point in this nation's history where criminals and traitors are allowed to go free because we as a society do not have the moral rectitude and outrage capable of punishing someone appropriately for doing horrible things. We've forgotten that without the switch (meaning painful punishment), the child quickly runs amok and grows up to be the sociopath they were permitted to be as a youth.

"It's all good", has been an expression that has forgiven uncountable acts of moral depravity and evil. As a society, we need to return to a time that a lying politician is drummed out of government forever. A businessman who cheats the public be punished in accordance to the scale of his crime. A sports hero be stripped of his position and lauds (Michael Vick was a good start).

A society that forgives everything for nothing will soon fall into chaos and be conquered by those who have not forgotten what the backbone of a strong society is: Discipline of clear moral codes and laws. This is something we have not done well as a nation since the 1950's and the pendulum is going to start swinging back the other way, as we've gone too far. We've thrown away our American Society since then... whittling it away with compassion for multi-culturalism which is nothing more than societal chaos. No nation can survive this for long. A dominant culture will win out and crush all the others. That is the way of things for all of human history.

Condemnation, shame, shunning, a certain demand for uniformity of discipline... all these things are unpleasant tools of a society with a strong ethical core. Without them, there is no threat to those who choose to disregard society's norms. Do we need to go back as far as we used to be say in Colonial times? No... There's a balance point somewhere in between we can find. But if this problem isn't addressed in a rational manner, it will be forced by an irrational manner and go too far.

Societies and cultures swing back and forth on this pendulum. You can see it throughout history in every nation that has lasted more than a couple centuries. We've come to the end of a VERY liberal and permissive time. The next few generations, suffering under the pains of excessive license will be swinging back the other way. The question is one of speed and scope. The more resistance to moving back to the more placid middle needs to lessen lest we all suffer more.

Interesting perspective.

I say that lying hasn't become any more or less prevalent, it's just that it's much easier to check up and call people out. It was bad form for individuals to record conversations and then publish the tapes, assuming they would make it past the editorial directors of the media. Now we have youtube and the blogosphere. We also have an increased text based interaction, where it's not possible to lie and completely get away with it.

In a strange way, this forces more honesty. Tomorrow's politicians are cognizant of what they say in email, on message boards, and on facebook. The days of paying off the bartender to forget a college incident are over.

Warts and all, we're really going to know who is sitting in the big chairs. Of course, then shit's going to hit the fan when we realize that we don't want antiseptic citizens who have never experienced life having that much power over us. But that is a problem our kids will have to solve.

You're talking about a tool to help foster honesty. In this sort of situation, you're right, it has the potential to do this, AND create better liars. We will adapt to hide our sins.

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking a fundamental character flaw that lying is no big deal. A societal issue which nations turn upon and societies grow or die.

Parents do not believe lying is a big deal or that it's cute or funny as kids, so when they get older, they think it still is. Now what if that young child lied to their parents face, and was caught and immediately punished and harshly in a meaningful way to that kid. And was every time they were caught lying. I'd hazard to say that it would tun them into very honest people.

That is where the character flaw is ingrained. Lying is not punished. I work with kids. When they lie to me, and I catch them on it, I expose them and put them on report. There are consequences for when they lie and know it. There are consequences when they are insubordinate too. Within a few months, of me busting their chops for misbehavior and lecturing them on what character is, they quickly become the best group of kids you can imagine. Because they know there is value in good character and punishment for bad.

This country hasn't laid down the law on our children for 30 years in most cases. Until that happens again, we will never get back to a moral nation. Now you may say that's harsh or mean or strict, and damn right it is. We've tried soft and forgiving and enabling and it got us into this mess with our children, and that's where this all starts.

In a way, thank GOD we're going to be going through some very harsh economic times. We can't afford the luxury of lying to ourselves and supporting bullshit. Our parents and grandparents who grew up with the ethics of the 'me' generation and passed them on to us would be shocked to discover their ethical lessons are going to die with out generations as we do not pass them on to our children for we have seen what an abysmal failure moral relativism, 'if it feels good, it is good' and "It's all good" have wrought in our society.

9/11 was a hard stop to the pendulum. stopped the cultural swing to the liberal short of it's final goal. Gravity is pulling it back down and it will swing the other way. It's about a roughly 75 year cycle when you look at it. From the 1790's to the 1860's. From the 1860's to the 1930's. From the 1930's to present. Liberal, conservative liberal... and now back to conservative. Each period brings it's improvements and curses. But sorry now, time says the epoch has ended, and time to move on the other way. Let's just hope it keeps improving.

I agree with this.

But lying ain't new, and isn't any barometer of society.

In my opinion.