Has America taken the good of the individual too far?

[musingsofacac]

By the title of this post one might think I am a liberal, but I am actually very conservative. While I believe in the rugged individualism of America's history, I believe in the last century we have taken individualism to a level even the founders would probably not agree with.

The main facts I use to site my case are from a recent article in the Weekly Standard called "Single Nation". It stated that 67% of males in America between the ages of 20 and 34 have never been married yet. It also stated that 57% of females in that same age group have never been married. We are also having less children even when we do get married.

We have become a selfish society, afraid of commitment, afraid of loosing ourselves in marriage or having children. Marriage and Family are the foundation of any successful society, when those things crumble, the nation will soon follow.

We are more concerned with with being able to own the big house, two new cars and take luxerious vacations than getting married, settling down and having children. Even when we have children we only want one or two - so we "can afford" to take care of them - that is code for "spoil them".

I believe in individualism where it supports,builds and encourages the growth of healthy marriages and families. I believe the focus of society needs to be on the good the family, as opposed the good of the nation, or the good the individual. Without strong families, the nation perishes, and with that the freedom of the individual.

So what can we do to change this trend? I believe we need to strongly encourage marriage, in fact we need to reverse the marriage penalty and make it the "marriage advantage" in taxes. We need to make it very beneficial to be married and to have children. Child tax credits should be doubled or quadrupled.

 

[Mr. H.]

Who needs individualism when you can pop out all the kids you want and have them (and yourself) taken care of by Uncle Sambama.

Change the trend by putting a Republican in the White House. Starve the deadbeats into the job market.

Democrats force poverty. Republicans force poverty-riders into the job market.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

By the title of this post one might think I am a liberal, but I am actually very conservative. While I believe in the rugged individualism of America's history, I believe in the last century we have taken individualism to a level even the founders would probably not agree with.

The main facts I use to site my case are from a recent article in the Weekly Standard called "Single Nation". It stated that 67% of males in America between the ages of 20 and 34 have never been married yet. It also stated that 57% of females in that same age group have never been married. We are also having less children even when we do get married.

We have become a selfish society, afraid of commitment, afraid of loosing ourselves in marriage or having children. Marriage and Family are the foundation of any successful society, when those things crumble, the nation will soon follow.

We are more concerned with with being able to own the big house, two new cars and take luxerious vacations than getting married, settling down and having children. Even when we have children we only want one or two - so we "can afford" to take care of them - that is code for "spoil them".

I believe in individualism where it supports,builds and encourages the growth of healthy marriages and families. I believe the focus of society needs to be on the good the family, as opposed the good of the nation, or the good the individual. Without strong families, the nation perishes, and with that the freedom of the individual.

So what can we do to change this trend? I believe we need to strongly encourage marriage, in fact we need to reverse the marriage penalty and make it the "marriage advantage" in taxes. We need to make it very beneficial to be married and to have children. Child tax credits should be doubled or quadrupled.

You have the right to believe what you want – and to be wrong, which you are in this case.

Now the question for you and other conservatives: will you accept the changing nature of our society and respect the right of the individual to express himself and live his personal life as he sees fit?

Or will you take the reactionary route typical of many conservatives and attempt to legislate morality, stifle diversity and dissent, and compel everyone to conform?

 

[Mr. H.]

By the title of this post one might think I am a liberal, but I am actually very conservative. While I believe in the rugged individualism of America's history, I believe in the last century we have taken individualism to a level even the founders would probably not agree with.

The main facts I use to site my case are from a recent article in the Weekly Standard called "Single Nation". It stated that 67% of males in America between the ages of 20 and 34 have never been married yet. It also stated that 57% of females in that same age group have never been married. We are also having less children even when we do get married.

We have become a selfish society, afraid of commitment, afraid of loosing ourselves in marriage or having children. Marriage and Family are the foundation of any successful society, when those things crumble, the nation will soon follow.

We are more concerned with with being able to own the big house, two new cars and take luxerious vacations than getting married, settling down and having children. Even when we have children we only want one or two - so we "can afford" to take care of them - that is code for "spoil them".

I believe in individualism where it supports,builds and encourages the growth of healthy marriages and families. I believe the focus of society needs to be on the good the family, as opposed the good of the nation, or the good the individual. Without strong families, the nation perishes, and with that the freedom of the individual.

So what can we do to change this trend? I believe we need to strongly encourage marriage, in fact we need to reverse the marriage penalty and make it the "marriage advantage" in taxes. We need to make it very beneficial to be married and to have children. Child tax credits should be doubled or quadrupled.

You have the right to believe what you want – and to be wrong, which you are in this case.

Now the question for you and other conservatives: will you accept the changing nature of our society and respect the right of the individual to express himself and live his personal life as he sees fit?

Or will you take the reactionary route typical of many conservatives and attempt to legislate morality, stifle diversity and dissent, and compel everyone to conform?

Today's individuals lack morality and flaunt diversity and dissent to the point of anarchy.

All the while demanding conformity to their way of life.

How about a cup of fuck off?

 

[Lakhota]

OMG, is Pat Buchanan lecturing us...? My stomach is getting a little queasy...

 

[occupied]

You seem to think marriage is the only defining characteristic of "family". Not so, a family can be any numbers and types of people living together under the same roof or even the same block or town. You do have a point about self-centeredness being a major problem but it is a carefully engineered trait to maximize consumer demand by our fine cash paying sponsors. Now back to the latest crappy reality show that teaches us that being a selfish insane prick is the key to stardom.

 

[musingsofacac]

You seem to think marriage is the only defining characteristic of "family". Not so, a family can be any numbers and types of people living together under the same roof or even the same block or town. You do have a point about self-centeredness being a major problem but it is a carefully engineered trait to maximize consumer demand by our fine cash paying sponsors. Now back to the latest crappy reality show that teaches us that being a selfish insane prick is the key to stardom.

I completely understand there are different types of "family". For instance my parents adopted my niece and nephew after they got custody from my sister and her husband(both dead beats at the time and multiple issues too many to go into). So my niece and nephew were basically raised by their grand parents, one is 18 and the other is 19 and they both turned out pretty good thanks to my parents.

But my parents would be the first to tell you that what happened with them(adopting my niece and nephew) is not the ideal situation and is not something we should encourage(grandparents raising kids) - parents should be responsible and raise their own kids. Yes single parents sometimes have to raise kids as well, but again it is not the ideal situation. In our society we seem to be so afraid of saying what is best, verses what sometimes happens because of wrong behavior and irresponsible behavior - we should not be ashamed to say that kids need a father and a mother, they need responsible parents who will love and sacrifice for them.

 

[Lakhota]

OMG, it really is Pat...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

You seem to think marriage is the only defining characteristic of "family". Not so, a family can be any numbers and types of people living together under the same roof or even the same block or town. You do have a point about self-centeredness being a major problem but it is a carefully engineered trait to maximize consumer demand by our fine cash paying sponsors. Now back to the latest crappy reality show that teaches us that being a selfish insane prick is the key to stardom.

I completely understand there are different types of "family". For instance my parents adopted my niece and nephew after they got custody from my sister and her husband(both dead beats at the time and multiple issues too many to go into). So my niece and nephew were basically raised by their grand parents, one is 18 and the other is 19 and they both turned out pretty good thanks to my parents.

But my parents would be the first to tell you that what happened with them(adopting my niece and nephew) is not the ideal situation and is not something we should encourage(grandparents raising kids) - parents should be responsible and raise their own kids. Yes single parents sometimes have to raise kids as well, but again it is not the ideal situation. In our society we seem to be so afraid of saying what is best, verses what sometimes happens because of wrong behavior and irresponsible behavior - we should not be ashamed to say that kids need a father and a mother, they need responsible parents who will love and sacrifice for them.

According to what authority?

Millions of single parents do an excellent job of raising their children to become happy, well adjusted, productive members of society.

And you’ve not addressed the mechanics of how you’ll compel society to conform to your beliefs.

 

[occupied]

You seem to think marriage is the only defining characteristic of "family". Not so, a family can be any numbers and types of people living together under the same roof or even the same block or town. You do have a point about self-centeredness being a major problem but it is a carefully engineered trait to maximize consumer demand by our fine cash paying sponsors. Now back to the latest crappy reality show that teaches us that being a selfish insane prick is the key to stardom.

I completely understand there are different types of "family". For instance my parents adopted my niece and nephew after they got custody from my sister and her husband(both dead beats at the time and multiple issues too many to go into). So my niece and nephew were basically raised by their grand parents, one is 18 and the other is 19 and they both turned out pretty good thanks to my parents.

But my parents would be the first to tell you that what happened with them(adopting my niece and nephew) is not the ideal situation and is not something we should encourage(grandparents raising kids) - parents should be responsible and raise their own kids. Yes single parents sometimes have to raise kids as well, but again it is not the ideal situation. In our society we seem to be so afraid of saying what is best, verses what sometimes happens because of wrong behavior and irresponsible behavior - we should not be ashamed to say that kids need a father and a mother, they need responsible parents who will love and sacrifice for them.

Kids do not just need a father and a mother, any retard can procreate, they need guidance. Having two parents in the house is no golden road to anything, I would say that having one parent who creates a stable home environment is far superior to a Mom and Dad who fight and beat each other up periodically. I am of the opinion that the breakdown you are laminating is more due to a household requiring a least two working class paychecks to to be financially stable than some kind of moral decay. In our status symbol obsessed world kids learn very early their place in society is defined by their stuff and their cash on hand and that ruthlessness pays, literally.

 

[musingsofacac]

Or will you take the reactionary route typical of many conservatives and attempt to legislate morality, stifle diversity and dissent, and compel everyone to conform?

I find it humorous anytime a liberal talks about legislating morality, stifling dissent and compeling people to conform as if only conservatives believe people should live or think or certain way?

Liberals will not tolerate anyone who believes in absolutes. As long as you believe everybody is good and ok, thats fine, but as soon as you believe in any absolute - watch out!

For instance - liberals have no problem making people conform to their views in these areas(and passing legislation to do so):

1. Laws that restrict people having ANY concealed weapon
2. Laws that force religious insitutions(or Christian company owners) to pay for birth control against their beliefs(something that is not medically necessary - as opposed to heart transplants)
3. Courts that forbid kids from volentarily saying a prayer at their own graduation cermony
4. They boycott businesses to that have a consciencous objection to gay marriage
5. They like laws that force people to join unions
6. They want laws or court rulings forbiding any talk of intelligent design or creationism in public schools, no challenge to evolution can be brought
7. Any one who speaks on gender differences(who actually believes that men and women are designed differently) are routinely fired or called for to be fired.
8. And God forbid anyone try to talk about how children who come from a loving two parent home with a father and mother are typically more successful in life(and in marriage). The poverty rate in single parents homes is astronomical compared to homes where there are a father and mother(and no it is not always two income).

So yes I love how tolerant liberals are....NOT.

 

[occupied]

Hogwash. This is a list of your complaints that liberals are somehow keeping God away from kids, but the thing is, acting like a theocrat that wants to ban everything that you see as immoral (practically everything fun) drives more kids away from an honest examination of morality than anything.

 

[musingsofacac]

And you’ve not addressed the mechanics of how you’ll compel society to conform to your beliefs.

Actually I did address the "mechanics" of how we can "encourage"(as opposed to "compel") a society that truly treasures marriage and family. I said it can start with tax credits - instead of a marriage penalty as we have now - we should have a marriage "advantage" in the tax code.

As far as having children goes - I believe we should encourage people to have children. Now there are exceptions to that - and I do believe in forced surgical birth control for people who are habitual drug addicts , habitual offenders or mothers who are continually abusive or neglectful to their children(there are still many states where governors or judges can order this).

 

[Lakhota]

Sooo, after we tax guns out of existence we can tax homo marriages out of existence. Sounds like a plan...

 

[musingsofacac]

And one other thing for my conservative Republican pals:

Single parent homes are a much bigger impact on the welfare state than two parent homes. Look up studies online about the links between poverty, and dependance on state and single parent homes.

In fact there are many liberal sites that all but admit this and thats why they are screaming for more big government to help single parent homes because they know it is the cause of a lot poverty in this country.

Encourging marriage(as opposed to compeling) would actually save this country a lot of money.

 

[Meathead]

Knock yourselves out:

General Effects of the Single-Parent Household
It has been found through varied research that children in single-parent homes generally fare worse than those homes with two parents. Statistically, in the United States, family structure does contribute to certain characteristics of a child's well being. For example, there is a prevalence of lower birthrates and higher death rates among infants when there is just one parent. Also, the number of children ages 15-17 in school and in good health is much lower in this group of children, and the number of children becoming pregnant at these ages is increasing. There are also signs that children who have gone through a divorce may have problems with depression, emotional stress, and difficulties in school. It has been found that adolescents from single-parent families were found to be three times more likely to be depressed than those living with two parents. Single parent homes are also associated with criminal activity in the U.S.A. Children from a single-parent household account for 72% of teenage murderers, 60% percent of people who commit rape crimes and are eleven times more likely to exhibit violent behavior. These statistics are astounding and the problems that accompany single-parenthood appear volatile.

Single Parent Households - How Does it Affect the Children? - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

 

[musingsofacac]

Sooo, after we tax guns out of existence we can tax homo marriages out of existence. Sounds like a plan...

The last time I checked - the founding father's guarenteed my right to bare arms, they didn't guarentee my right to a homo marriage.

Also we talk about whether Jesus was a Palestinian when you can tell me how Palestine got its name and who were the some of the kings of Palestine I know the answers - just want to see if you do)?

 

[Antares]

Puke.

Not an original thought in your head, is there?

By the title of this post one might think I am a liberal, but I am actually very conservative. While I believe in the rugged individualism of America's history, I believe in the last century we have taken individualism to a level even the founders would probably not agree with.

The main facts I use to site my case are from a recent article in the Weekly Standard called "Single Nation". It stated that 67% of males in America between the ages of 20 and 34 have never been married yet. It also stated that 57% of females in that same age group have never been married. We are also having less children even when we do get married.

We have become a selfish society, afraid of commitment, afraid of loosing ourselves in marriage or having children. Marriage and Family are the foundation of any successful society, when those things crumble, the nation will soon follow.

We are more concerned with with being able to own the big house, two new cars and take luxerious vacations than getting married, settling down and having children. Even when we have children we only want one or two - so we "can afford" to take care of them - that is code for "spoil them".

I believe in individualism where it supports,builds and encourages the growth of healthy marriages and families. I believe the focus of society needs to be on the good the family, as opposed the good of the nation, or the good the individual. Without strong families, the nation perishes, and with that the freedom of the individual.

So what can we do to change this trend? I believe we need to strongly encourage marriage, in fact we need to reverse the marriage penalty and make it the "marriage advantage" in taxes. We need to make it very beneficial to be married and to have children. Child tax credits should be doubled or quadrupled.

You have the right to believe what you want – and to be wrong, which you are in this case.

Now the question for you and other conservatives: will you accept the changing nature of our society and respect the right of the individual to express himself and live his personal life as he sees fit?

Or will you take the reactionary route typical of many conservatives and attempt to legislate morality, stifle diversity and dissent, and compel everyone to conform?

 

[Lakhota]

Sooo, after we tax guns out of existence we can tax homo marriages out of existence. Sounds like a plan...

The last time I checked - the founding father's guarenteed my right to bare arms, they didn't guarentee my right to a homo marriage.

Also we talk about whether Jesus was a Palestinian when you can tell me how Palestine got its name and who were the some of the kings of Palestine I know the answers - just want to see if you do)?

Are you in a "militia"...?

 

[Darkwind]

By the title of this post one might think I am a liberal, but I am actually very conservative. While I believe in the rugged individualism of America's history, I believe in the last century we have taken individualism to a level even the founders would probably not agree with.

The main facts I use to site my case are from a recent article in the Weekly Standard called "Single Nation". It stated that 67% of males in America between the ages of 20 and 34 have never been married yet. It also stated that 57% of females in that same age group have never been married. We are also having less children even when we do get married.

We have become a selfish society, afraid of commitment, afraid of loosing ourselves in marriage or having children. Marriage and Family are the foundation of any successful society, when those things crumble, the nation will soon follow.

We are more concerned with with being able to own the big house, two new cars and take luxerious vacations than getting married, settling down and having children. Even when we have children we only want one or two - so we "can afford" to take care of them - that is code for "spoil them".

I believe in individualism where it supports,builds and encourages the growth of healthy marriages and families. I believe the focus of society needs to be on the good the family, as opposed the good of the nation, or the good the individual. Without strong families, the nation perishes, and with that the freedom of the individual.

So what can we do to change this trend? I believe we need to strongly encourage marriage, in fact we need to reverse the marriage penalty and make it the "marriage advantage" in taxes. We need to make it very beneficial to be married and to have children. Child tax credits should be doubled or quadrupled.

I think you are confusing two distinct things.

Individualism is NOT equal to selfishness.

Individualism is a considered thought process and way of life.

Selfishness is a taught psychosis learned in our school systems.

Let Me edit that.

Individualism is a value system that permits the greatest freedoms in a civil society.