Harvard: Good Teachers Worth The Cost

[rdean]

Give me a break. The right wing doesn't believe in the value of education. Unless it's something as noxious as "magical creation".

 

[chanel]

Oh deanie - still riding the short bus eh?

The best schools in NJ (and the country) are in Republican districts. The worst are in Dem. Look it up.

Republicans believe that the purpose of an education is to learn new things - like language and math. The liberal philosophy is to get new things - like free lunch and self esteem. Only people who believe in the nanny state drop out of school. They are all your's.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Give me a break. The right wing doesn't believe in the value of education. Unless it's something as noxious as "magical creation".

'..."magical creation"...'

"President Obama and his family headed out to church this morning for the third time in a month, the latest sign that the president may be using religion to boost his image as the campaign heats up.

Obama has rarely gone to church since becoming president. But last month he and his family walked across Lafayette Park in front of the White House to attend services at St. John’s Church. They attended Christmas services at a Marine Base in Hawaii and today were at Zion Baptist Church in DC."
Obama Heads to Church – Again | The Blog on Obama: White House Dossier

Does this mean he's into that "magical creation" stuff?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

A few generations back there was a societal expectation that women would gravitate to teaching and nursing as professions. the gain in other professions by attracting smart women has been matched by the loss in education where the drop in top quality teachers has been very noticable. I'm not suggesting that we go backwards in women's rights, I'm just pointing out the inevitable effect of giving more options and changing societal expectations has had on education. skimming off many of the best and brightest for other fields not only drops the overall average ability of teachers but it also decreases the peer evaluated standard of what makes a 'good' teacher.

That's one theory, but I would argue the primary reason for the piss poor education system we have today is the lack of discipline at home and in the classroom.

 

[chanel]

I co-teach a regular ed senior English class. 50 percent of our students are failing right now. I said to my co-teacher "We have to do something. Amnesty day. Makeup day. Curving. Something." Her response was: "All of those failing have horrible attendance and refuse to stay after school to make up the work. That's not our fault" My response was "But it is. If the students fail, we fail"

That's the conundrum. Ethics or statistics? Standards or graduation ràtes?

The problem is that we are both "right", If we held every child to the same set if standards, half of them would not graduate. Be. Careful what you wish for.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I co-teach a regular ed senior English class. 50 percent of our students are failing right now. I said to my co-teacher "We have to do something. Amnesty day. Makeup day. Curving. Something." Her response was: "All of those failing have horrible attendance and refuse to stay after school to make up the work. That's not our fault" My response was "But it is. If the students fail, we fail"

That's the conundrum. Ethics or statistics? Standards or graduation ràtes?

The problem is that we are both "right", If we held every child to the same set if standards, half of them would not graduate. Be. Careful what you wish for.

I stand with your colleague.
After all, you could simply write '99' on all of their work.
But you are not a rubber stamp.

The teacher is not there to provide the intended outcome, but to provide the opportunity.


Here is what one teacher told me: "I come in before school and allow students to take extra exams; I remain after school, the same.
Every extra bit of effort is rewarded....but by the student, not my extras."
This was in high school...


You have not passed the student...nor failed the student.
Thus education is more than about learning material.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Not at all.

The reason that the unions don't want the results of their teaching made public, or used in evaluations, is because said data is dispositive.

The devil is in the details. Most teachers are in favor of merit raises or some kind of evaluation based on student performance, the problem is that such a system is prone to abuse by administration. Scheduling tricks, class roster creation, etc, could all be used to set up a teacher to fail under many of the proposed metrics.

Some sort of evaluation process will be implemented. The trick is to find one that protects the student's best interests while also protecting a teacher from the administration.

 

[chanel]

We are working on a new evaluation system right now. The teachers on the committee seem to think what has been proposed is very fair. I trust their judgment.

The problem I have with test scores is this: I teach 12th grade Special Ed. English. Currently there is no exam for 12th grade and 90% of my students failed the 11th grade test. My job is to get them to graduate. Period. If they learn something new, great. But not even a brilliant educator like myself could catch them up to a 12th grade benchmark. No one.

The only fair way to assess their growth (and my contribution to it) would be a pre/post test in every grade. What will that cost? It won't happen. Therefore, my name will appear as a failing teacher because Johnny with a 5th grade reading level, who was passed every year despite failing every state test in his career, will fail again.

Huh?

 

[chanel]

I co-teach a regular ed senior English class. 50 percent of our students are failing right now. I said to my co-teacher "We have to do something. Amnesty day. Makeup day. Curving. Something." Her response was: "All of those failing have horrible attendance and refuse to stay after school to make up the work. That's not our fault" My response was "But it is. If the students fail, we fail"

That's the conundrum. Ethics or statistics? Standards or graduation ràtes?

The problem is that we are both "right", If we held every child to the same set if standards, half of them would not graduate. Be. Careful what you wish for.

I stand with your colleague.
After all, you could simply write '99' on all of their work.
But you are not a rubber stamp.

The teacher is not there to provide the intended outcome, but to provide the opportunity.


Here is what one teacher told me: "I come in before school and allow students to take extra exams; I remain after school, the same.
Every extra bit of effort is rewarded....but by the student, not my extras."
This was in high school...


You have not passed the student...nor failed the student.
Thus education is more than about learning material.

While I agree with you in theory, the reality is quite different When half the class is failing, it's time to re-evaluate your own methods, and possibly throw them a life raft. I teach 12th grade. The students are not entirely to blame for their poor attendance and study habits. It is a learned behavior.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I co-teach a regular ed senior English class. 50 percent of our students are failing right now. I said to my co-teacher "We have to do something. Amnesty day. Makeup day. Curving. Something." Her response was: "All of those failing have horrible attendance and refuse to stay after school to make up the work. That's not our fault" My response was "But it is. If the students fail, we fail"

That's the conundrum. Ethics or statistics? Standards or graduation ràtes?

The problem is that we are both "right", If we held every child to the same set if standards, half of them would not graduate. Be. Careful what you wish for.

I stand with your colleague.
After all, you could simply write '99' on all of their work.
But you are not a rubber stamp.

The teacher is not there to provide the intended outcome, but to provide the opportunity.


Here is what one teacher told me: "I come in before school and allow students to take extra exams; I remain after school, the same.
Every extra bit of effort is rewarded....but by the student, not my extras."
This was in high school...


You have not passed the student...nor failed the student.
Thus education is more than about learning material.

While I agree with you in theory, the reality is quite different When half the class is failing, it's time to re-evaluate your own methods, and possibly throw them a life raft. I teach 12th grade. The students are not entirely to blame for their poor attendance and study habits. It is a learned behavior.

Well, then, how are you teaching them a different mode by validating their ' poor attendance and study habits'?

The sub text, I've heard from several teachers, is that the administration uses the failing percentage as a cudgel against teachers who post a great number of failing grades.

Then there was the teacher who filled in the form that began "Explain why more than 15% failed" with the following:
"Less than 85% passed."


If the teachers' union has any clout at all they should file a grievance over such forms.

Chanel...these children are not stupid. They know their failures will be rubber stamped under the current system.

 

[chanel]

True dat PC. Many of our students have IEP's. We get angry emails every year from parents, administrators, guidance etc. asking what "alternative assessments" can be given to boost a kid's grade. We generally say "Show up. Pay attention. Do the work". But sometimes that doesn't fly.

Last year we had a student threaten suicide over a failing grade. It wasn't just him using emotional blackmail. We capitulated - sort of. We had no choice.

 

[blimpo]

How can a teacher be judged fairly for the performance of kids on standardized tests?

Example:
An 8th grade teacher has 25% of students that range from a second grade to 4th grade reading level.
How, in the span of a 10 month period is he/she going to get these kids to pass tests where the material might be 4 years ahead of their level where individual classes are 40 minutes per day?
Is this teacher at fault for their low learning level? No. They came to the first day of school that year on that level.
The solution:
Choose a level, say 3rd grade, you don't move to the next grade until you are ready for the 4th grade. The 8th grade teacher would now have all kids on the level of the test. Teacher evaluation would at least be more valid.
The problem would be the log jam of kids remaining in the 3rd grade. The taxpayers would have to ante up for more facilities to keep a 3rd grade class from having 95 students. I doubt the public would support this. What about the students that remain in the 3rd grade for 4 years? More resources will have to be allocated to warehouse these that don't have the ability to move up. Ain't going to happen...

 

[chanel]

I agree. I teach 12th grade. My students are years behind.

Are they assessing growth or proficiency?

Testing costs big, big $$$$, as does retention.

The devil is in the details.

 

[chanel]

Manipulating data for political purposes can backfire. Gov. Christie will most likely use this info for education reform. However, it seems that better evaluations do not translate into better teaching.

New Jersey's report card from a group that seeks to improve standards for educators is dismal: D-plus, 36th in the United States, and making less progress than most states.

The report, scheduled to be published Wednesday by the National Council on Teacher Quality, could bolster parts of Gov. Christie's education-overhaul agenda - though the governor's critics say it shouldn't.

The analysis considers how teachers are trained, evaluated, rewarded, and fired.

But it does not assess the overall state of teaching and learning. That's an area where, on average, New Jersey is among the highest-performing states - despite being home to low-performing schools, particularly in its most impoverished cities.

Some of the areas Christie wants to fix are the same ones the Washington-based research and policy group says are broken.

"What the governor has proposed with evaluation and tenure would put New Jersey among the trailblazer states," said Sandi Jacobs, the council's vice president.

New Jersey's grade barely budged from the D it received from the group two years ago. Florida, where standardized test scores fall far short of New Jersey's, received the highest mark this year - and it got just a B.

N.J. gets a D-plus for teacher standards | Philadelphia Inquirer | 01/25/2012

 

[Unkotare]

Last year we had a student threaten suicide over a failing grade. It wasn't just him using emotional blackmail. We capitulated - sort of. We had no choice.

Of course you did.

 

[editec]

It doesn't take a good teacher to teach to a test.

It takes a good teacher to educate kids how to think for themselves.

If you can't see the difference between teaching FOR A TEST and teaching kids how to think clearly?

Then seriously, you have nothing worth considering as it regards this issue.

 

[Unkotare]

It doesn't take a good teacher to teach to a test.

It takes a good teacher to do it well such that the students learn from the experience AND do well on the test.


South Korea is often held up as an example of a country with a more effective educational system than the US. Guess what they do there?

 

[PoliticalChic]

It doesn't take a good teacher to teach to a test.

It takes a good teacher to educate kids how to think for themselves.

If you can't see the difference between teaching FOR A TEST and teaching kids how to think clearly?

Then seriously, you have nothing worth considering as it regards this issue.

This post is just silly, and is the smoke-and-mirrors that the educrats use to hide the flaws of what is currently known as education.

If teachers do a good job, if students, the same, tests do exactly what they should do.

The problem occurs when folks like you- who should know better, use a term like 'think' as though dealing with an exam doesn't require thinking.

 

[Truthmatters]

Why would anyone take the advice of someone who hates public education and wants it dead in an attempt to improve public education?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why would anyone take the advice of someone who hates public education and wants it dead in an attempt to improve public education?

Haven't you noticed....'public education' has been proven to be a misnomer.

While it may be public, government schools hardly provide 'education.'


It would be good policy to find a way to provide an education, one that can be documented by testing.
Don't you agree?