Happy New Year! More Freedom Exists

[eric]

I could really care less if we piss off some fundamentalist nutcases! I refuse to live by a doctrine of appeasement ! Isreal is an allie of the US, and we will continue to sell them arms, we can not shape our policies in order to please theses animals.

 

[r3volut!on]

ok...

But at the same time you want people to stop attacking us? You want terrorism to stop? That's a really stubborn stance...and it's that stubborn stance that has gotten the US into this terrorist mess in the first place.

The United States is the most arrogant nation in the world. You just proved that.

If we keep viewing other people in the world that we may have differences with as "animals" we only perpetuate the problem. In our rise to the top of the world powers have we not reached a level of intellect that is superior to this kind of thought?

Let me guess, were the Native Americans "animals" too?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by r3volut!on
In our rise to the top of the world powers have we not reached a level of intellect that is superior to this kind of thought?

It's the superior intellect that has taught us that some of these people ARE animals. Call me arrogant if you like, but I call them as I see them.

 

[r3volut!on]

And on what foundation do you base that perception? Why do you think of them that way? Is it simply because they are the enemy of one of our strongest Allies? And why is Israel considered an Ally anyway? They would turn their backs on us in a heartbeat. They would have no loyalty to us whatsoever if we didn't provide them with arms.

Learn as much as you can about the USS Cole if you'd like some evidence of that.

 

[eric]

Arrogant maybe, but at the same time a country that has gained so much power so quickly and at the same time used it so wisely. You show me a world power that has done as much good as the US has.

Sorry if you don't like my stubborn stance but I refuse to give in to threats. You seem to be another one of these people who somehow feel that America had this comming because of our involvement in world affairs. Unfortunately to become and remain a world power requires such involvement. Keep in mind that until the collapse of the soviet union a balance of power had to be maintained around the world, and required us to do things that we might today regret. Also let us not be naive, nations must sometimes act in their best interest at the expense of others, at least until we live in a utopian world.

Not to mention the past can not be changed, so we have to go on from here, should we now go back on the deals that we have made with our allies for fear of terrorism. You have the right to your own opinion, but I for one have far too much pride!

BTW - Yes many are animals, you don't see people dragged and beaten once they are dead in civilized nations, we don't strap bomb belts to little kids, and savagely beat and torture people. My family was in Germany when it was occupied by America, the germans were an occupied people, you did not see suicide bombers and the like. This is because they were not a backward people.

 

[eric]

Learn as much as you can about the USS Cole if you'd like some evidence of that.

Why don't you enlighten us by posting some reputable links, not a bunch of rag-tag internet sites spouting conspiracy theories.

Oh by the way you do know that we are starting to buy military hardware from Isreal. Let us not forget the favor they did the world by taking out the nuclear site in Iraq, that our friends the French sold to them.

 

[r3volut!on]

Originally posted by eric
Why don't you enlighten us by posting some reputable links, not a bunch of rag-tag internet sites spouting conspiracy theories.

Well, that's just the problem isn't it. Unless I post a link to a news site that is corporate owned or government regulated, you're not going to accept it as fact.

You can call them "rag-tag" sources, but I trust news that is free from the overwhelming bias fed to us through mainstream media.

Anyway, if you care to learn anything about the USS Cole, the information is out there. That's not what this thread is about though...

On that note, why don't you tell us all why you think attacking Iraq was necessary - since "nations must sometimes act in their best interest at the expense of others, at least until we live in a utopian world."

 

[Annie]

r3volut!on
I'm not going to go through each post on each point. My feelings are that the current 'pc' vision, which you are esposing is that IF Israel did not put the roadblocks, checkpoints, settlements out there, all would be well.

Unfortunately history stands in the way. These were all responses to attacks against the country. The Palistinians will not be happy with anything less than the total removal of the state of Israel. It's not going to happen.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Yes many are animals, you don't see people dragged and beaten once they are dead in civilized nations, we don't strap bomb belts to little kids, and savagely beat and torture people. My family was in Germany when it was occupied by America, the germans were an occupied people, you did not see suicide bombers and the like. This is because they were not a backward people.

the US is not without its own human rights violations. While we don't arm little kids or beat and torture people we sure as hell help others do it.

The Palistinians will not be happy with anything less than the total removal of the state of Israel

I don't believe this is true of the entire palestinian people. Hamas, and those who decide to ally with them, are the ones against an israeli state while the average palestinian would like to forgo the violence and retributive attacks in favor of a normal peaceful life.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
the US is not without its own human rights violations. While we don't arm little kids or beat and torture people we sure as hell help others do it.

Links?

We've actually assisted others in arming little kids and beating and torturing people? Or is this just another liberal spin on what those 'animals' have done with the assistance they've received?

Nonetheless, comparing our human rights record to theirs is quite a stretch.

 

[Annie]

While not necessarily a 'majority' there is a significant number who do not want to compromise:

http://cp.yahoo.net/search/cache?p=...7ajX4woZTYJ:www.miftah.org/doc/polls/no49.pdf

 

[r3volut!on]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Nonetheless, comparing our human rights record to theirs is quite a stretch.

Well, let's see, we nearly committed genocide on the entire native population of this continent, and what was that whole slavery thing that happened a couple hundred years ago?

I'd say those two incidents alone put us pretty high on the list of human rights offenders. How quickly we forget when it serves the purposes of our arguments...

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by r3volut!on
Well, let's see, we nearly committed genocide on the entire native population of this continent, and what was that whole slavery thing that happened a couple hundred years ago?

I'd say those two incidents alone put us pretty high on the list of human rights offenders. How quickly we forget when it serves the purposes of our arguments...

And I thought we were discussing present times. Do you have anything within the past hundred years? This is where the 'superior intellect' part comes in, WE have evolved and progressed, they have went back in time.

Try a little harder next time.

 

[r3volut!on]

you said "our record"

I didn't realize we had been expunged.

 

[r3volut!on]

here is something a little more recent for you:

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR511642003

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by r3volut!on
you said "our record"

I didn't realize we had been expunged.

Nope, it's still there. I just choose to live in current times and reality. Our human rights record is 'so bad' that nobody would ever want to immigrate here or enter illegally for a better life.

I'd rather live in a zoo than with any of these people. The ambiance would be the same, probably wouldn't smell much worse, and my survival rate would skyrocket.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by r3volut!on
here is something a little more recent for you:

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR511642003

You are comparing the holding of potential terrorists to those who beat, torture & kill daily? Jeez, these people are better off being held than where they came from!

Only the wacky liberals and the French would complain.

'Yawn'

 

[r3volut!on]

The thing you fail to realize is that, while the US isn't known for human rights violations here at home (thanks to a lovely thing we call the Constitution and Bill of Rights) the rules and restrictions contained in those documents don't apply to our foreign policy.

But, here lies the conundrum: If you only trust mainstream, corporate-owned media sources for your information, you're not going to hear the stories about US-supported human rights violations in foreign countries.

Somehow that information always falls through the cracks. And when it does surface, conservative Americans, in their perpetual state of denial, dismiss it as nothing more than bleeding-heart propaganda.

It's no wonder why so many liberals are angry all the time. Everything they say gets dismissed.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by r3volut!on
It's no wonder why so many liberals are angry all the time. Everything they say gets dismissed.

Did you say something?

 

[r3volut!on]

Originally posted by jimnyc
You are comparing the holding of potential terrorists to those who beat, torture & kill daily? Jeez, these people are better off
being held than where they came from!

The key word there was potential terrorists. Anyone could be considered a potential terrorist. Does that mean we are entitled to deny them the right to a fair trial? Isn't that one of the basic human rights that we're so proud of in this country? Innocent until proven guilty?