Hamilton vs. Burr

[Pellinore]

Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush Monticello, January 16, 1811:

I invited them to dine with me, and after dinner, sitting at our wine, having settled our question, other conversation came on, in which a collision of opinion arose between Mr. Adams and Colonel Hamilton, on the merits of the British constitution, Mr. Adams giving it as his opinion, that, if some of its defects and abuses were corrected, it would be the most perfect constitution of government ever devised by man. Hamilton, on the contrary, asserted, that with its existing vices, it was the most perfect model of government that could be formed; and that the correction of its vices would render it an impracticable government. And this you may be assured was the real line of difference between the political principles of these two gentlemen. Another incident took place on the same occasion, which will further delineate Mr. Hamilton's political principles. The room being hung around with a collection of the portraits of remarkable men, among them were those of Bacon, Newton and Locke, Hamilton asked me who they were. I told him they were my trinity of the three greatest men the world had ever produced, naming them. He paused for some time: "the greatest man," said he, "that ever lived, was Julius Caesar." Mr. Adams was honest as a politician, as well as a man; Hamilton honest as a man, but, as a politician, believing in the necessity of either force or corruption to govern men.

Thomas Jefferson, saying something negative about Alexander Hamilton? Why I never!

 

[Thunderbird]

Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush Monticello, January 16, 1811:

I invited them to dine with me, and after dinner, sitting at our wine, having settled our question, other conversation came on, in which a collision of opinion arose between Mr. Adams and Colonel Hamilton, on the merits of the British constitution, Mr. Adams giving it as his opinion, that, if some of its defects and abuses were corrected, it would be the most perfect constitution of government ever devised by man. Hamilton, on the contrary, asserted, that with its existing vices, it was the most perfect model of government that could be formed; and that the correction of its vices would render it an impracticable government. And this you may be assured was the real line of difference between the political principles of these two gentlemen. Another incident took place on the same occasion, which will further delineate Mr. Hamilton's political principles. The room being hung around with a collection of the portraits of remarkable men, among them were those of Bacon, Newton and Locke, Hamilton asked me who they were. I told him they were my trinity of the three greatest men the world had ever produced, naming them. He paused for some time: "the greatest man," said he, "that ever lived, was Julius Caesar." Mr. Adams was honest as a politician, as well as a man; Hamilton honest as a man, but, as a politician, believing in the necessity of either force or corruption to govern men.

Thomas Jefferson, saying something negative about Alexander Hamilton? Why I never!

Hamilton had a talent for making enemies: Jefferson, Adams, and of course Burr.

 

[boedicca]

Aaaawon Buhhhh!

 

[Picaro]

Hamilton was a big fan of corruption and an aristocracy, Burr was an adventurer with grandiose plans of his own in the West, building an empire. He was preferable to Hamilton and his cabal of swindlers and traitors; Burr being ambitious in a wide open continent was no crime, and in fact pretty common; being a typical corrupt pol and enabling your friends to steal the country blind was always reprehensible. It's an easy choice who was the best man..

Burr’s ambition was to foment civil war. Is that admirable?

Rubbish. They were all 'traitors', depending on what day it was. See Jefferson's and Madison's Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions, the New England Federalists and their secession movements when Jefferson won the Presidency, ironic, since they themselves voted him into office when he and Burr tied for the votes, and again in the War of i812, when the New England states almost joined the British side in the war, along with many other episodes.

Burr won New York for the republicans, by finding a way for the middle and lower classes to vote in elections, something the Federalists had been preventing since the 1787 Convention; less than 20% of freemen in New York state were allowed to vote, only the wealthy had the right, thanks to scum like Hamilton and his corrupt thieving cronies. Burr changed all that almost single handedly, along with getting many of the Federalists out of office and voting themselves massive amounts of money. That old observation re 'the public voting itself money from the public treasury' wasn't provoked by poor people, it was a direct warning of what scum like Hamilton were doing with the Revolutionary War debts and their robbing of veterans of their pay.

 

[Picaro]

Burr plotted to subvert the election of 1800: Project MUSE - "An Attack Well Directed": Aaron Burr Intrigues for the Presidency

Burr enfranchised more freemen, costing the Federalists the election and getting Jefferson in office. He got around the real subversives.

 

[Thunderbird]

Hamilton was a big fan of corruption and an aristocracy, Burr was an adventurer with grandiose plans of his own in the West, building an empire. He was preferable to Hamilton and his cabal of swindlers and traitors; Burr being ambitious in a wide open continent was no crime, and in fact pretty common; being a typical corrupt pol and enabling your friends to steal the country blind was always reprehensible. It's an easy choice who was the best man..

Burr’s ambition was to foment civil war. Is that admirable?

Rubbish. They were all 'traitors', depending on what day it was. See Jefferson's and Madison's Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions, the New England Federalists and their secession movements when Jefferson won the Presidency, ironic, since they themselves voted him into office when he and Burr tied for the votes, and again in the War of i812, when the New England states almost joined the British side in the war, along with many other episodes.

Burr won New York for the republicans, by finding a way for the middle and lower classes to vote in elections, something the Federalists had been preventing since the 1787 Convention; less than 20% of freemen in New York state were allowed to vote, only the wealthy had the right, thanks to scum like Hamilton and his corrupt thieving cronies. Burr changed all that almost single handedly, along with getting many of the Federalists out of office and voting themselves massive amounts of money. That old observation re 'the public voting itself money from the public treasury' wasn't provoked by poor people, it was a direct warning of what scum like Hamilton were doing with the Revolutionary War debts and their robbing of veterans of their pay.

Conspiring with an enemy nation to dismember your country by force to serve your ambition - is that good?

See post # 7 for more on Burr's crimes.

 

[Picaro]

i am a long time burr fan

Burr was a traitor like his coconspirator James Wilkinson. Burr was as bad as Benedict Arnold.

Also consider Burr’s behavior during the 1800 presidential election.

Finally Burr founded a company which promised to provide clean water for NYC to help prevent yellow fever outbreaks. This company never provided clean water and the outbreaks continued.

Burr, Hamilton, Chase Bank and the Wooden Water Pipes : New York Traveler.net

Read the rubbish spin, it's not new nor actually accurate, and if it was 'underhanded' then account for the fact the Federalists controlled New York City and state politics by disenfranchising over 90% of freemen from voting, and how they lost by such large margins when Burr outsmarted them by perfectly legal means and got them to the polls. The fact is it was the Federalists and the sleazebag Hamilton who were totally corrupt thieves and swindlers, cheating their own state and the country as well.

 

[Thunderbird]

i am a long time burr fan

Burr was a traitor like his coconspirator James Wilkinson. Burr was as bad as Benedict Arnold.

Also consider Burr’s behavior during the 1800 presidential election.

Finally Burr founded a company which promised to provide clean water for NYC to help prevent yellow fever outbreaks. This company never provided clean water and the outbreaks continued.

Burr, Hamilton, Chase Bank and the Wooden Water Pipes : New York Traveler.net

Read the rubbish spin, it's not new nor actually accurate, and if it was 'underhanded' then account for the fact the Federalists controlled New York City and state politics by disenfranchising over 90% of freemen from voting, and how they lost by such large margins when Burr outsmarted them by perfectly legal means and got them to the polls. The fact is it was the Federalists and the sleazebag Hamilton who were totally corrupt thieves and swindlers, cheating their own state and the country as well.

Which part is not accurate?

 

[Picaro]

Re the bank bill, New York City at the time had only two banks, Hamilton's and the BUS, both with interlocking directorships, both of which only loans money to its directors among themselves, none for any other businessmen, leaving them starved for capital. For those who don't know, the BUS's major depositor was the U.S. government; the two banks were just feeding off of American taxpayers, and New York City in particular, since the Fed was financed largely by land sales and the city's tariffs on imports. Burr's bank broke up that monopoly, and opened the way for more bank charters.

 

[Picaro]

i am a long time burr fan

Burr was a traitor like his coconspirator James Wilkinson. Burr was as bad as Benedict Arnold.

Also consider Burr’s behavior during the 1800 presidential election.

Finally Burr founded a company which promised to provide clean water for NYC to help prevent yellow fever outbreaks. This company never provided clean water and the outbreaks continued.

Burr, Hamilton, Chase Bank and the Wooden Water Pipes : New York Traveler.net

Read the rubbish spin, it's not new nor actually accurate, and if it was 'underhanded' then account for the fact the Federalists controlled New York City and state politics by disenfranchising over 90% of freemen from voting, and how they lost by such large margins when Burr outsmarted them by perfectly legal means and got them to the polls. The fact is it was the Federalists and the sleazebag Hamilton who were totally corrupt thieves and swindlers, cheating their own state and the country as well.

Which part is not accurate?

They spelled some names right, that's about all the 'accuracy' in it.

 

[Thunderbird]

Re the bank bill, New York City at the time had only two banks, Hamilton's and the BUS, both with interlocking directorships, both of which only loans money to its directors among themselves, none for any other businessmen, leaving them starved for capital. For those who don't know, the BUS's major depositor was the U.S. government; the two banks were just feeding off of American taxpayers, and New York City in particular, since the Fed was financed largely by land sales and the city's tariffs on imports. Burr's bank broke up that monopoly, and opened the way for more bank charters.

Burr failed to supply clean water as he promised. The epidemics continued.

 

[Picaro]

Re the bank bill, New York City at the time had only two banks, Hamilton's and the BUS, both with interlocking directorships, both of which only loans money to its directors among themselves, none for any other businessmen, leaving them starved for capital. For those who don't know, the BUS's major depositor was the U.S. government; the two banks were just feeding off of American taxpayers, and New York City in particular, since the Fed was financed largely by land sales and the city's tariffs on imports. Burr's bank broke up that monopoly, and opened the way for more bank charters.

Burr failed to supply clean water as he promised. The epidemics continued.

The city kept failing for several more decades, until the Croton Reservoir. Can't blame it on Burr; there was a whole city full of other people screwing it up.