Hamas looses even if it wins

[Munin]

After Gaza, when Hamas called itself the victor it will still become the loosing party on the long term because when Hamas wins, the current moderate political party in Israel will loose and the extremists in Israel will win in the coming elections.

When the extremists win, then Hamas might have signed its own death warrant because the extremists want to annex Gaza.

Gaza offensive to weigh heavily on Israeli elections (News Feature)

 

[Xenophon]

They will still proclaim victory.

It's hard to explain about the Muslim world, but they have a way of never taking responsibility for their actions.

For example, if a man drops and breaks a cup, in the west we would say "I broke that cup" but in the Muslim world they would say "the cup broke after it fell' with no person attached to the falling.

They also have an odd thing about when things go wrong, they proclaim 'Insullah' (roughly it's god's will) no matter what, nobody will take blame for anything, nor give blame to other Musilms for that matter. It can be quite annoying when you are training them to try and do things, as I found out first hand some years ago.

 

[Munin]

It can be quite annoying when you are training them to try and do things, as I found out first hand some years ago.

Impressive, who did you train?

 

[traderjoe17]

After Gaza, when Hamas called itself the victor it will still become the loosing party on the long term because when Hamas wins, the current moderate political party in Israel will loose and the extremists in Israel will win in the coming elections.

When the extremists win, then Hamas might have signed its own death warrant because the extremists want to annex Gaza.

Hamas will be proclaiming its victory over Israel as long as they have someone to proclaim it. To them, its a huge accomplishment to merely survive Israels onslaught. The fact that Israel killed approximately 600 of their terrorists, destroyed a large amount of their rocket stockpile, obliterated many of their facilities and assassinated a number of their top leaders, on top of restoring their deterrence...Hamas is just glad its still around.

 

[Munin]

After Gaza, when Hamas called itself the victor it will still become the loosing party on the long term because when Hamas wins, the current moderate political party in Israel will loose and the extremists in Israel will win in the coming elections.

When the extremists win, then Hamas might have signed its own death warrant because the extremists want to annex Gaza.

Hamas will be proclaiming its victory over Israel as long as they have someone to proclaim it. To them, its a huge accomplishment to merely survive Israels onslaught. The fact that Israel killed approximately 600 of their terrorists, destroyed a large amount of their rocket stockpile, obliterated many of their facilities and assassinated a number of their top leaders, on top of restoring their deterrence...Hamas is just glad its still around.

Maybe they re so glad that Israel didn't take it to the next level (occupy the whole of Gaza), a sign that Hamas was maybe very much weakened and felt seriously threatened in its existence. Because where could they run if they don't have Gaza anymore?

Egypt? Israel? West Bank? I think the answer would be three times no.

 

[Article 15]

*puts on spelling Nazi hat*

IT'S FUCKING LOSE, LOSING, LOSER, ETC!!!!!

(sorry, man it's nothing personal just for my own peace of mind)

 

[Munin]

*puts on spelling Nazi hat*

IT'S FUCKING LOSE, LOSING, LOSER, ETC!!!!!

(sorry, man it's nothing personal just for my own peace of mind)

My bad, I shouldn't have typed it that quickly .

Nice hat btw

is it this one?

 

[Xenophon]

It can be quite annoying when you are training them to try and do things, as I found out first hand some years ago.

Impressive, who did you train?

Egyptian military, a long time ago.

 

[Munin]

Tomorrow is the big day, the day that Israel will show what firing rockets from Hamas & Hezbollah into Israel will have done to the vote of the Israeli people.

:The Daily Star: Internet Edition

Maybe some here on the forum will see the different between a moderate Israeli government and an extremist Israeli government. But I hope for the palestinians sake (& the arabs living in Israel), that the outcome will be moderate.

 

[Shogun]

hey, even Hitler was elected as a nationalist reaction. Let Bibi win. He'll become more of an icon than you will ever imagine.

 

[jillian]

They're idiots if they vote for Livni.

And of course they're moving right... sleeping in bomb shelters will do that to you.

 

[Shogun]

They're idiots if they vote for Livni.

And of course they're moving right... sleeping in bomb shelters will do that to you.

....so does post ww1 german economics, I hear....

 

[jillian]

You're a moron... so sad.

your posts have deteriorated along with your mental state, apparently.

 

[Shogun]

You're a moron... so sad.

your posts have deteriorated along with your mental state, apparently.

Do you dispute the history behind the election of Adolph Hitler? funny, I feel the same way about your jewlicious leap towards zionism. Hell, I have no doubt that you NOW support every incursion into arab land by usurping jewish settlers these days. After all, only a fool would vote for Livni, right? A jew who has not already promised to keep all canaanized land?


By all means, Jillynbean... If you have evidence of some OTHER factor that made Hitler appeal to so many Aryan Germans in the shadow of ww1 then post it. Your opinion of my forum interaction means two things to me. I'm sure you know quite well what those two things are.




This 'Stab in the Back' theory would become hugely popular among many Germans who found it impossible to swallow defeat. During the war, Adolf Hitler became obsessed with this idea, especially laying blame on Jews and Marxists in Germany for undermining the war effort. To Hitler, and so many others, the German politicians who signed the armistice on November 11, 1918, would become known as the "November Criminals."

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/ends.htm

 

[Munin]

hey, even Hitler was elected as a nationalist reaction. Let Bibi win. He'll become more of an icon than you will ever imagine.

You really don't worry about it? Israel always had the power to mass murder, has nukes that will prevent any arab state that surround it to attack them.

Until now they never have mass murdered with the purpose to do so, a very extremist government could change that. Israel has behaved moderately compared to the threat that it always has been faced to and compared to the provocations that Hamas and other palestinian extremist groups have put on israel to do something radical.

You can't keep throwing rocks at a guy with a machine gun in his hands, at some point you will have provoked him so much that he will use the gun on you. Hamas never seems to have understood that, even if they hope to get arab support by their actions they won't get it because no arab state will risk to attack a nuclear armed Israel (even if they think Allah will support them, we know what happened last time they tried that).

 

[Shogun]

12 dead rocketted jews, the SOLE excuse for killing arabs, versus 1000+ dead arabs is not moderate. Feel free to call "moderate" anything just slightly less horrible than holocaust ovens, dude! It's cool. There really is nothing new under the sun and validating a violent jewish reaction over 12 dead jews is no more moderate than GERMANY's, uhm, what did you call for? a Final Solution? Given international SEMI-criticism of israel thus far all Bibi will do is tip the scale for the sake of an ironic new master race who ONLY wants an ethnically pure nation free from arab cockroaches who may usurp JEWISH control of israel if *GASP* they were equally counted in a common election. So, again, enjoy your election in isreal. Jews are no more or less human than Blond Haired Germans the last time scapegoat pointing became easier than self discipline and a fair amount of personal evaluation.

 

[Munin]

12 dead rocketted jews, the SOLE excuse for killing arabs, versus 1000+ dead arabs is not moderate. Feel free to call "moderate" anything just slightly less horrible than holocaust ovens, dude! It's cool. There really is nothing new under the sun and validating a violent jewish reaction over 12 dead jews is no more moderate than GERMANY's, uhm, what did you call for? a Final Solution? Given international SEMI-criticism of israel thus far all Bibi will do is tip the scale for the sake of an ironic new master race who ONLY wants an ethnically pure nation free from arab cockroaches who may usurp JEWISH control of israel if *GASP* they were equally counted in a common election. So, again, enjoy your election in isreal. Jews are no more or less human than Blond Haired Germans the last time scapegoat pointing became easier than self discipline and a fair amount of personal evaluation.

Your hatred clouds your judgement. Hitler would have wiped Gaza of the map a long time ago.

You need to keep Hitler out of your comparisons, comparing a guy that kills Jews for a living with a state full of Jews just doesn't work:

I don't think not many people will enjoy the election in Israel because no one enjoys war except a small group of extremists.
This is a war-election in Israel, one that palestinians are going to be the victim of.

 

[Shogun]

ps... just to rub it in your fucking face a little....


Anti-Arab Israeli Party Surges
Polls Show Avigdor Lieberman's Far-Right Platform Gaining Ahead of Vote

JERUSALEM -- A right-wing politician who is calling for the expulsion of Israel's Arab citizens looks set to score big gains in national elections here on Tuesday.

Avigdor Lieberman's party, called Yisrael Beiteinu, or Israel Is Our Home, is running a close third in current polls, which could make the Moldovan immigrant and former nightclub bouncer the kingmaker of Israeli politics when it comes time to negotiate a coalition government after the vote.

Benjamin Netanyahu, leader of the right-wing Likud Party and the current favorite to be Israel's next prime minister, has promised Mr. Lieberman will be an "important minister" in his government.

That could damp already dim hopes for a Mideast peace breakthrough anytime soon. Mr. Lieberman has vowed in his campaign to stop all peace negotiations, including those with the U.S.-backed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. Mr. Lieberman rejects the principle of "land for peace" -- which calls for Israel to give Palestinians certain territories in exchange for a peace agreement -- that has anchored U.S. peace efforts in the Middle East for the past 30 years.

A central tenet in Mr. Lieberman's campaign is a proposal to redraw Israel's borders to transfer most of the country's 1.2 million Arab citizens to Palestinian control, in exchange for land in the West Bank occupied by Jewish settlers. He also wants to make it mandatory for Israeli citizens to take an oath of loyalty in order to get citizenship, the right to vote, and social services.

"Israel is under a dual terrorist attack, from within and from without," the 50-year-old Mr. Lieberman said at an annual conference on national security Monday, north of Tel Aviv. Speaking Hebrew with a Russian accent, and occasionally making grammatical mistakes, he took aim at the country's Arab citizens, warning "the threat from within is more dangerous than the threat from outside."

Israeli politicians have long tried to woo voters with tough talk about the country's many enemies. What's notable about Mr. Lieberman, analysts say, is the degree to which he is vilifying Arab citizens, and the success he appears to be having doing it. Recent polls indicate his party will get as many as 19 seats in the country's 120-seat Knesset, up from its current 11 and just shy of the 26 forecast for the Likud Party, which leads the polls.

Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni's ruling centrist Kadima Party, which now holds 29 seats, is polling a close second to Likud. Meanwhile, Ehud Barak's traditionally pro-peace Labor party, with 18 seats now, could win as few as 13 seats.

"For many years we said to ourselves that we don't hate, that hatred is something the others do," says Israeli historian and author Tom Segev. "This has changed now. It has become legitimate to hate the Arabs. It is an indication of just how far to the right Israel has moved."

Israeli voters have been shifting to the right since the collapse of Mideast peace talks at Camp David in 2000 and a wave of Palestinian suicide bombings that followed.

Mr. Lieberman's anti-Arab platform is by no means new to Israeli politics. In 1984, an American-born rabbi named Meir Kahane was elected to the Knesset on a similar platform, but was declared racist by the government the following year and banned from competing in future elections.

This time, however, the country's politicians appear to be echoing Mr. Lieberman's bellicose rhetoric. Ms. Livni said in December that if elected she would tell Israel's Arab citizens "your national aspirations lie elsewhere," comments widely interpreted as an endorsement of Mr. Lieberman's plan to transfer Israel's Arabs to Palestinian control.

Israel's Arab minority has full citizenship rights, and has traditionally been held up as evidence of Israel's strong democratic roots. Recently, however, some Arab politicians in Israel have made provocative statements in support of Hamas and attacks against Israel.

Peace advocates haven't lost all hope at the prospect of a government anchored by Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Lieberman, whose party will likely be needed to reach the minimum of 61 seats for a ruling coalition. They point out that it was the country's right wing that secured most of the significant peace breakthroughs, including the Camp David Peace Accords with Egypt in 1978, the Madrid peace talks in 1991, and the withdrawal from Gaza in 2004.

"If there is an American administration that is proactive, then there is a chance to do something," said Yossi Beilin, a leading Israeli peace activist.

Mr. Lieberman emigrated to Israel from the former Soviet republic of Moldova in 1978 at the age of 20 and joined the Likud Party as a student. After working briefly as a bouncer in a nightclub, he eventually aligned himself with Mr. Netanyahu and became chief of staff, a position he held onto when Mr. Netanyahu became prime minister in 1996.

In 1999, Mr. Lieberman broke from Likud and established his own party, Yisrael Beiteinu. As an immigrant, he quickly attracted support from the country's Russian community and won a seat in parliament that same year.

As he has staked out positions far to the right of other Israeli parties, his support has grown.

"I like his idea that without loyalty you can't be a citizen in this country," says Mariam Tal, a 32-year-old kindergarten teacher in Jerusalem who voted for Kadima in the last elections but supports Mr. Lieberman's party today. "I am tired of the same candidates every year and so I'm ready to try someone new."

Anti-Arab Israeli Party Surges - WSJ.com

I KNOW, JILL! TELL ME HOW FUCKING BATSHIT CRAZY I AM!

 

[Shogun]

12 dead rocketted jews, the SOLE excuse for killing arabs, versus 1000+ dead arabs is not moderate. Feel free to call "moderate" anything just slightly less horrible than holocaust ovens, dude! It's cool. There really is nothing new under the sun and validating a violent jewish reaction over 12 dead jews is no more moderate than GERMANY's, uhm, what did you call for? a Final Solution? Given international SEMI-criticism of israel thus far all Bibi will do is tip the scale for the sake of an ironic new master race who ONLY wants an ethnically pure nation free from arab cockroaches who may usurp JEWISH control of israel if *GASP* they were equally counted in a common election. So, again, enjoy your election in isreal. Jews are no more or less human than Blond Haired Germans the last time scapegoat pointing became easier than self discipline and a fair amount of personal evaluation.

Your hatred clouds your judgement. Hitler would have wiped Gaza of the map a long time ago.

You need to keep Hitler out of your comparisons, comparing a guy that kills Jews for a living with a state full of Jews just doesn't work.

I posted MY evidence, ya little bleeding twat.. Where is yours?


Oh, duh.. Your zionist handbook didn't come with that chapter, did it puppet? Enjoy the Red, Bolded parts above... Clearly, the WSJ are hateful joooooo hating people for making the same points I am.

 

[del]

ps... just to rub it in your fucking face a little....


Anti-Arab Israeli Party Surges
Polls Show Avigdor Lieberman's Far-Right Platform Gaining Ahead of Vote

JERUSALEM -- A right-wing politician who is calling for the expulsion of Israel's Arab citizens looks set to score big gains in national elections here on Tuesday.

Avigdor Lieberman's party, called Yisrael Beiteinu, or Israel Is Our Home, is running a close third in current polls, which could make the Moldovan immigrant and former nightclub bouncer the kingmaker of Israeli politics when it comes time to negotiate a coalition government after the vote.

Benjamin Netanyahu, leader of the right-wing Likud Party and the current favorite to be Israel's next prime minister, has promised Mr. Lieberman will be an "important minister" in his government.

That could damp already dim hopes for a Mideast peace breakthrough anytime soon. Mr. Lieberman has vowed in his campaign to stop all peace negotiations, including those with the U.S.-backed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. Mr. Lieberman rejects the principle of "land for peace" -- which calls for Israel to give Palestinians certain territories in exchange for a peace agreement -- that has anchored U.S. peace efforts in the Middle East for the past 30 years.

A central tenet in Mr. Lieberman's campaign is a proposal to redraw Israel's borders to transfer most of the country's 1.2 million Arab citizens to Palestinian control, in exchange for land in the West Bank occupied by Jewish settlers. He also wants to make it mandatory for Israeli citizens to take an oath of loyalty in order to get citizenship, the right to vote, and social services.

"Israel is under a dual terrorist attack, from within and from without," the 50-year-old Mr. Lieberman said at an annual conference on national security Monday, north of Tel Aviv. Speaking Hebrew with a Russian accent, and occasionally making grammatical mistakes, he took aim at the country's Arab citizens, warning "the threat from within is more dangerous than the threat from outside."

Israeli politicians have long tried to woo voters with tough talk about the country's many enemies. What's notable about Mr. Lieberman, analysts say, is the degree to which he is vilifying Arab citizens, and the success he appears to be having doing it. Recent polls indicate his party will get as many as 19 seats in the country's 120-seat Knesset, up from its current 11 and just shy of the 26 forecast for the Likud Party, which leads the polls.

Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni's ruling centrist Kadima Party, which now holds 29 seats, is polling a close second to Likud. Meanwhile, Ehud Barak's traditionally pro-peace Labor party, with 18 seats now, could win as few as 13 seats.

"For many years we said to ourselves that we don't hate, that hatred is something the others do," says Israeli historian and author Tom Segev. "This has changed now. It has become legitimate to hate the Arabs. It is an indication of just how far to the right Israel has moved."

Israeli voters have been shifting to the right since the collapse of Mideast peace talks at Camp David in 2000 and a wave of Palestinian suicide bombings that followed.

Mr. Lieberman's anti-Arab platform is by no means new to Israeli politics. In 1984, an American-born rabbi named Meir Kahane was elected to the Knesset on a similar platform, but was declared racist by the government the following year and banned from competing in future elections.

This time, however, the country's politicians appear to be echoing Mr. Lieberman's bellicose rhetoric. Ms. Livni said in December that if elected she would tell Israel's Arab citizens "your national aspirations lie elsewhere," comments widely interpreted as an endorsement of Mr. Lieberman's plan to transfer Israel's Arabs to Palestinian control.

Israel's Arab minority has full citizenship rights, and has traditionally been held up as evidence of Israel's strong democratic roots. Recently, however, some Arab politicians in Israel have made provocative statements in support of Hamas and attacks against Israel.

Peace advocates haven't lost all hope at the prospect of a government anchored by Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Lieberman, whose party will likely be needed to reach the minimum of 61 seats for a ruling coalition. They point out that it was the country's right wing that secured most of the significant peace breakthroughs, including the Camp David Peace Accords with Egypt in 1978, the Madrid peace talks in 1991, and the withdrawal from Gaza in 2004.

"If there is an American administration that is proactive, then there is a chance to do something," said Yossi Beilin, a leading Israeli peace activist.

Mr. Lieberman emigrated to Israel from the former Soviet republic of Moldova in 1978 at the age of 20 and joined the Likud Party as a student. After working briefly as a bouncer in a nightclub, he eventually aligned himself with Mr. Netanyahu and became chief of staff, a position he held onto when Mr. Netanyahu became prime minister in 1996.

In 1999, Mr. Lieberman broke from Likud and established his own party, Yisrael Beiteinu. As an immigrant, he quickly attracted support from the country's Russian community and won a seat in parliament that same year.

As he has staked out positions far to the right of other Israeli parties, his support has grown.

"I like his idea that without loyalty you can't be a citizen in this country," says Mariam Tal, a 32-year-old kindergarten teacher in Jerusalem who voted for Kadima in the last elections but supports Mr. Lieberman's party today. "I am tired of the same candidates every year and so I'm ready to try someone new."

Anti-Arab Israeli Party Surges - WSJ.com

I KNOW, JILL! TELL ME HOW FUCKING BATSHIT CRAZY I AM!