Hamas Charter

Do you consider Hamas a Terrorist Organization?


  • Total voters
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... As long as it remains an Arab ISLAMIC organization there is no question of Hamas' racist Anti-Semitic character and creed.

Hamas' objection to the Zionists IS about religion.

But, yes, it is also about the land!


So that is interesting Mojo.

It seems to be almost the exact same as Israel's racist anti-everything-except-Jews character & creed.

Israel's objection to Palestinians is about religion, of course, as well as about trying to steal their land,


In condemning one, surely you would be consistent and condemn both of these, as they are the same?
Or you would agree that both must be permissible.

Which is it Mojo?
Such accusations should be investigated, the reason they are not is why Israel bother to deal with them in the first place, if they were attending to stand for trial the 'call' they dropped to annihilate Israel could be considered, but as a suspects you may also add 'escaping trial/justice' to the crimes committed they are suspected of.
The reason they've escaping justice indicate that they do have a hand in the matter, since they can always surrender but they haven't.
The Charter upon which they were founded also indicate the hypocrisy of those organizations, they remained Hamas, the designated terrorist organization in the first place, saying they changed their mind but they continue their crimes does not justify their actions.

Excellent.

Not criminals then. Just accused by their enemies.
I'm pleased we agree. :)
 
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Here.

This should shut up all of the Pals....and their pals.

“The Jews Are Our Enemies Because They Are Infidels, Not Because They Occupied Palestine”


Seraphic Secret has long maintained that the Arab-Muslim war against Israel has nothing to do with land, boundaries, so-called refugees, so-called occupation, or national aspirations. Let’s face it, the so-called Palestinian people had a state in 1948 via the U.N. partition plan, but they and five Arab armies chose to invade Israel in an attempted war of annihilation.

No, the Arab-Muslim war against Israel is a war against Jews, against Judaism, a slow motion war with genocide as the end-game.

Of course, the Hamas Covenant states all this quite proudly.

And the PLO charter is equally articulate in its genocidal yearnings.

Naturally, liberal totalitarian enablers in the West choose to ignore basic facts in favor of so-called, ahem, reasoned criticism of Israel — unhinged Jew-hatred in disguise.

Thus, it’s nice to hear a Muslim cleric, in the “moderate” Arab state of Qatar, give voice to the frothing Jew-hatred that is a core belief of Islam.

The following is an excerpt from a Friday sermon delivered by Qatari cleric Sheik Muhammad Al-Muraikhi, which aired on Qatar TV on January 9, 2009.

Sheik Muhammad Al-Muraikhi:

We do not treat the Jews as our enemies just because they occupied Palestine, or because they occupied a precious part of our Arab and Islamic world. We will treat the Jews as our enemies even if they return Palestine to us, because they are infidels. They rejected Allah and His messengers.


The Jews Are Our Enemies Because They Are Infidels Not Because They Occupied Palestine
 
Which is it Mojo?

Such accusations should be investigated..


Excellent.

Not criminals then. Just accused by their enemies.
I'm pleased we agree. :)

Let it be noted that your quote is inaccurately attributed to Daniyel.

I've done my best to right things though. I hope it is accurate.

Also, please note the pattern.

Liberal fucks things up.

Conservatives do their best to fix the mess left by the Liberals.
 
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Such accusations should be investigated..

In fact they are already sentenced in Israel, death from above due to their current actions and future actions based on long criminal history, or prison once they surrender, unless in trial they prove differently past their arrest.
Like I said, except war crimes, which is not Israel's job to investigate, but the UN or to be precise ICC.
 
Waa waa waa.

Stop complaining that people don't like Israel Mojo.

Israel is a fascist state for crissakes! It is stealing land in defiance of the UN! It bombs hospitals and schools, and has nukes to defend itself.

You are NOT the victim you are the perpetrator and the thief. No one likes thieves.

As to your translations, I would not trust them as far as I could throw a fatted cow.

People definitely want to kill Israelis and the IDF because they perpetrate crimes on those they occupy, on a daily basis. Why do you struggle to understand that?

As to what they would do if Israel were utterly utterly crushed: well they are angry and there would be suffering, BUT NO ONE HAS ANY CHANCE OF DOING THAT!

Israel WILL rot from within. Israel IS rotting from within.

That is the thing you should fear. Pointing at your victim and complaining "Waa waa! He hates us!" Is just laughable. :)
 
Hamas has dropped its call for the destruction of Israel from its manifesto for the Palestinian parliamentary election in a fortnight, a move that brings the group closer to the mainstream Palestinian position of building a state within the boundaries of the occupied territories.
The Islamist faction, responsible for a long campaign of suicide bombings and other attacks on Israelis, still calls for the maintenance of the armed struggle against occupation. But it steps back from Hamas's 1988 charter demanding Israel's eradication and the establishment of a Palestinian state in its place.

The manifesto makes no mention of the destruction of the Jewish state and instead takes a more ambiguous position by saying that Hamas had decided to compete in the elections because it would contribute to "the establishment of an independent state whose capital is Jerusalem".

The shift in emphasis comes as Hamas finds itself under pressure from the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, and from foreign governments to accept Israel's right to exist and to end its violence if it wants to be accepted as a political partner in a future administration.

The group is expected to emerge as the second largest party after Mr Abbas's Fatah in the next Palestinian parliament. Opinion polls give it more than a third of the popular vote, built on a campaign against Fatah's endemic corruption and mismanagement and failure to contain growing criminality, and by claiming credit for driving the Israeli army and settlers out of Gaza.

But the manifesto continues to emphasise the armed struggle. "Our nation is at a stage of national liberation, and it has the right to act to regain its rights and end the occupation by using all means, including armed resistance," it says.

Hamas drops call for destruction of Israel from manifesto World news The Guardian

That puts an end to that then. :)

Now, does Israel recognise Palestine's right to exist as a state, or not?




YES and this is a matter of common knowledge

Oslo Accords - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Only after Israel's acceptance of the PLO as negotiation partner, serious negotiations could start. In their Letters of Mutual Recognition of 9 September 1993,
 
Let it be noted that your quote is inaccurately attributed to Daniyel.

I've done my best to right things though. I hope it is accurate.

Also, please note the pattern.

Liberal fucks things up.

Conservatives do their best to fix the mess left by the Liberals.

Nope.
Post #79 above.

You have made a complete mess of that Mojo.
You are a 'Conservative' are you?
 
....
plus they are criminals, no justice made with them so far, whether they apologize, regret or what else but they still have to pay for their crimes.

What crimes has Hamas been convicted of?



What crimes have Israel been convicted of.

But to answer your question thousands of hamas members have been convicted of terrorist attacks, murder of children, attempted murder and inciting murder.
 
... As long as it remains an Arab ISLAMIC organization there is no question of Hamas' racist Anti-Semitic character and creed.

Hamas' objection to the Zionists IS about religion.

But, yes, it is also about the land!


So that is interesting Mojo.

It seems to be almost the exact same as Israel's racist anti-everything-except-Jews character & creed.

Israel's objection to Palestinians is about religion, of course, as well as about trying to steal their land,


In condemning one, surely you would be consistent and condemn both of these, as they are the same?
Or you would agree that both must be permissible.

Which is it Mojo?





Then were are the links from non partisan sources that state Israel's intentions of " racist anti-everything-except-Jews character and creed ". Then we come to your next BLATANT LIE that has never been proven that the Israelis objection to Palestine is based on religion and is about trying to steal their land. ( please remember that the arab muslims had no legal claim to any land until 1988 )

The Palestinians many charters clearly state that the land is arab muslim and they will take it from its rightful owners by force.
 
Humanity, et al,

One has to be very careful when interpreting what the latent meanings are behind HAMAS Policy Statements. And again, watch the timeline, it is very (extremely) important.

Challenger, et al,

This is another one of those "teach me" moments.

Hello

I Tend to believe disagreement is most of the time a lack of knowledge, which is why I decided to talk about Hamas Charter, upon which Hamas was founded.
Feel free to read it, I highly recommend articles 6, 7, 11, 13, 15, 22, 32, 33, as they discuss their perspective and as result, their goals implemented by their actions.

Ah yes, that would be the Charter they abandoned in 2006, but for some unfathomable reason is used by the pro-Israel lobby to demonise them and keep them on the "terrorist" list.

(QUESTIONs)
  • Where is it recorded that HAMAS abandon the Covenant?
OR
  • Did HAMAS merely replace it with an updated version that systematically follows the Covenant.
(COMMENT)

I remember the time when the Palestinian Authority said it would rescind the Palestinian National Charter, but the Executive Committee never did.

Most Respectfully,
R

Hamas drops call for destruction of Israel from manifesto World news The Guardian
(COMMENT)

The Guardian Article is from 2006 ( The Guardian, Wednesday 11 January 2006 ), which does not take into consideration the New HAMAS Policy Statements of more resent time (see the HAMAS Position paper above).

Khaled Meshal said:
No recognition of the legitimacy of the occupation whatever; this is a principled position, political and moral, and therefore do not recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, and recognition of "Israel" and the legitimacy of its presence on any part of Palestine no matter how long; and it will not be long, God willing.

SOURCE: Item #3
I can see how you can be confused, but let us do a comparison in "written" manifestoes (Charters, Covenants, or whatever) relative to the position under discussion:

2013

Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim.

The unity of the Palestinian land: The West Bank (including Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip and the occupied land of 1948, one land with all its geography, it is one unit, not part separated from the other, which is a whole nation of the Palestinian people. The situation in Gaza now is exceptional and imposed on us, and not a natural situation, we can not accept that Gaza is separate...​

How does this position vary in comparison to the 1988 Position of HAMAS?

It is craftily worded, but in the end, what does it mean?

HAMAS may appear to be softening, but in reality, it is only projecting an interim appearance of recognition.

Most Respectfully,
R


 
Waa waa waa.

Stop complaining that people don't like Israel Mojo.

Israel is a fascist state for crissakes! It is stealing land in defiance of the UN! It bombs hospitals and schools, and has nukes to defend itself.

You are NOT the victim you are the perpetrator and the thief. No one likes thieves.

As to your translations, I would not trust them as far as I could throw a fatted cow.

People definitely want to kill Israelis and the IDF because they perpetrate crimes on those they occupy, on a daily basis. Why do you struggle to understand that?

As to what they would do if Israel were utterly utterly crushed: well they are angry and there would be suffering, BUT NO ONE HAS ANY CHANCE OF DOING THAT!

Israel WILL rot from within. Israel IS rotting from within.

That is the thing you should fear. Pointing at your victim and complaining "Waa waa! He hates us!" Is just laughable. :)

Remember the film, Shawshank Redemption?

Morgan Freeman's character, Red, kept going before the parole board with hopes of early release and to prepare for the hearing he would prepare some rationale and routine which might have convinced others of its sincerity, but did little to persuade the board to release ol Red.

Then, he finally gave up trying and lying to achieve what he most wanted.

And that is when the board okayed him for parole.

Until he gave up his false pretenses and faced reality he wasn't ready for freedom.

Seems neither are the Palestinians who feel as you do.

They aren't ready for freedom.

At least that is what you are proving to the world.

How much more sophisticated and beautiful and convenient and pleasurable life could be for the Palestinians if the money that's been given to the Palestinian people but criminally re-directed to the leader's own bank accounts, had been used for their rightful purposes?

Look at what israel has done instead of spending money to kill they spent it to improve life for her people.

Why couldn't the Palestinians be living more comfortably?

Ask Arafat and the ruling thugs since 1980 what they did with the foreign aid they'd been illicitly receiving?
 
Let it be noted that your quote is inaccurately attributed to Daniyel.

I've done my best to right things though. I hope it is accurate.

Also, please note the pattern.

Liberal fucks things up.

Conservatives do their best to fix the mess left by the Liberals.

Nope.
Post #79 above.

You have made a complete mess of that Mojo.
You are a 'Conservative' are you?

"Conservatives do their best to fix the mess left by the Liberals."
 
Which is it Mojo?

Such accusations should be investigated..


Excellent.

Not criminals then. Just accused by their enemies.
I'm pleased we agree. :)

Let it be noted that your quote is inaccurately attributed to Daniyel.

I've done my best to right things though. I hope it is accurate.

Also, please note the pattern.

Liberal fucks things up.

Conservatives do their best to fix the mess left by the Liberals.

First you post fomr an orthodox jewish website, then you say "
Liberal fucks things up.
Conservatives do their best to fix the mess left by the Liberals."

How can one be pro Ziionist and pro conservative at the same time, Might be time for a new thread.
 
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Which is it Mojo?

Such accusations should be investigated..


Excellent.

Not criminals then. Just accused by their enemies.
I'm pleased we agree. :)

Let it be noted that your quote is inaccurately attributed to Daniyel.

I've done my best to right things though. I hope it is accurate.

Also, please note the pattern.

Liberal fucks things up.

Conservatives do their best to fix the mess left by the Liberals.

First you post fomr an orthodox jewish website, then you say "
Liberal fucks things up.
Conservatives do their best to fix the mess left by the Liberals."

How can one be pro Ziionist and pro conservative at the same time, Might be time for a new thread.
I can easily explain that to you, pro-Zionism and pro-Conservative - The same way you are anti-war and pro-terrorism.
 
Which is it Mojo?

Such accusations should be investigated..


Excellent.

Not criminals then. Just accused by their enemies.
I'm pleased we agree. :)

Let it be noted that your quote is inaccurately attributed to Daniyel.

I've done my best to right things though. I hope it is accurate.

Also, please note the pattern.

Liberal fucks things up.

Conservatives do their best to fix the mess left by the Liberals.

First you post fomr an orthodox jewish website, then you say "
Liberal fucks things up.
Conservatives do their best to fix the mess left by the Liberals."

How can one be pro Ziionist and pro conservative at the same time, Might be time for a new thread.
I can easily explain that to you, pro-Zionism and pro-Conservative - The same way you are anti-war and pro-terrorism.

There is nothing conservative about Zionism and I'm not anti war and pro terrorist. How ridiculous. We just have a different opinion about what terrorism entails.
 
Humanity, et al,

One has to be very careful when interpreting what the latent meanings are behind HAMAS Policy Statements. And again, watch the timeline, it is very (extremely) important...

...I can see how you can be confused, but let us do a comparison in "written" manifestoes (Charters, Covenants, or whatever) relative to the position under discussion:

2013

Palestine from the river to the sea, and from north to south, is a land of the Palestinian people and its homeland and its legitimate right, we may not a waiver an inch or any part thereof, no matter what the reasons and circumstances and pressures.

Palestine - all of Palestine - is a land of Islamic and Arab affiliation, a blessed sacred land, that has a major portion in the heart of every Arab and Muslim.

The unity of the Palestinian land: The West Bank (including Jerusalem) and the Gaza Strip and the occupied land of 1948, one land with all its geography, it is one unit, not part separated from the other, which is a whole nation of the Palestinian people. The situation in Gaza now is exceptional and imposed on us, and not a natural situation, we can not accept that Gaza is separate...​

How does this position vary in comparison to the 1988 Position of HAMAS?

It is craftily worded, but in the end, what does it mean?

HAMAS may appear to be softening, but in reality, it is only projecting an interim appearance of recognition.

Most Respectfully,
R


I could not agree more. The first thing to learn is never use a pro-Zionist web or blog site and especially not You-tube. Most of the time, if these sites don’t lie outright; they distort what may have been said in order to promote their agenda. To be fair, equivalent Pro-Palestinian sites do much the same thing so navigating through both sides can be a challenging experience.

Here’s a site that translated the position paper http://elderofziyon.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/hamas-official-position-paper-on.html#.VAScM6N_Tde

The Position document, although dated, goes on a lot further than the “19 points” most commonly found in Pro-Zionist translations. Here’s a tract that seems miraculously never to appear in translation where he refers to a vision of a post Zionist, free Palestine that implies at least, a Jewish presence:

“18. The unity of the nation with all its components; religious, ethnic and sectarian; they are one historic nation, with a present and future, destiny and interests and we deal with it on that basis. While acknowledging the pluralism and diversity in the nation, we see the need to prevent everyone in our nation from inciting differences (religious, ethnic and sectarian) and avoid discrimination on the basis of these differences, but to live together as throughout the past centuries with every citizen knowing their limits and upholding their rights without infringing on the rights of others, and putting the common good of the nation above any partisan or factional interests.”

A bit 1776 in it's own way, don't you think?

Position papers are just that, an expression of a political or intellectual opinion (the position) held at a specific moment in time which is open to discussion and debate for a specific audience and most importantly, can be altered if the position changes. This position paper was written during the time of the “Arab Spring”, I think, as he spends a lot of effort in this paper analysing the potential effects on the region. Perhaps we should ask Khaled Meshaal for an update.

As for the Hamas charter, it remains as a bargaining chip, much like the PIRA constitution clause regarding “revolutionary armed struggle”. As you are well aware, the Palestinian side has precious few bargaining chips and it won’t give up the “Hamas Charter chip” without extracting some major concessions from the Zionists.

Hamas always has, and will continue to be, pragmatic about the political situation as it continually evolves. The Zionists know this full well and as a result backed away from destroying them this time. After all, if the Zionists killed their favourite whipping boy, they’d have to go to the trouble and expense of finding another one to justify their continuing oppression of the Palestinians.

Most respectfully,
C
 
I could not agree more. The first thing to learn is never use a pro-Zionist web or blog site and especially not You-tube. Most of the time, if these sites don’t lie outright; they distort what may have been said in order to promote their agenda. To be fair, equivalent Pro-Palestinian sites do much the same thing so navigating through both sides can be a challenging experience. Here’s a site that translated the position paper http://elderofziyon.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/hamas-official-position-paper-on.html#.VAScM6N_Tde
The Position document, although dated, goes on a lot further than the “19 points” most commonly found in Pro-Zionist translations. Here’s a tract that seems miraculously never to appear in translation where he refers to a vision of a post Zionist, free Palestine that implies at least, a Jewish presence:
“18. The unity of the nation with all its components; religious, ethnic and sectarian; they are one historic nation, with a present and future, destiny and interests and we deal with it on that basis. While acknowledging the pluralism and diversity in the nation, we see the need to prevent everyone in our nation from inciting differences (religious, ethnic and sectarian) and avoid discrimination on the basis of these differences, but to live together as throughout the past centuries with every citizen knowing their limits and upholding their rights without infringing on the rights of others, and putting the common good of the nation above any partisan or factional interests.” A bit 1776 in it's own way, don't you think? Position papers are just that, an expression of a political or intellectual opinion (the position) held at a specific moment in time which is open to discussion and debate for a specific audience and most importantly, can be altered if the position changes. This position paper was written during the time of the “Arab Spring”, I think, as he spends a lot of effort in this paper analysing the potential effects on the region. Perhaps we should ask Khaled Meshaal for an update. As for the Hamas charter, it remains as a bargaining chip, much like the PIRA constitution clause regarding “revolutionary armed struggle”. As you are well aware, the Palestinian side has precious few bargaining chips and it won’t give up the “Hamas Charter chip” without extracting some major concessions from the Zionists. Hamas always has, and will continue to be, pragmatic about the political situation as it continually evolves. The Zionists know this full well and as a result backed away from destroying them this time. After all, if the Zionists killed their favourite whipping boy, they’d have to go to the trouble and expense of finding another one to justify their continuing oppression of the Palestinians.
Funny auto-wash.
 
There is nothing conservative about Zionism and I'm not anti war and pro terrorist. How ridiculous. We just have a different opinion about what terrorism entails.
Zionism is not conservative, but overall American conservatives are most supportive of Israel.
 

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