Half of U.S. households pay no income tax...So the obvious question is what happens

I do live in the real world where income and wealth disparities are increasing while at the same time labor productivity has been increasing, yet the uber rich have been capturing our labor productivity.

This is what Bastiat calls legalized plunder, yet some rw kooks think that the poor are becoming the new rich.

The world I live in is truly mad.

Of course the point being that instead of tearing down those who have more why not invest all this hate into bring bring those who have less up?

There isn't a society in history that's survived having a few support the many as the left is advocating for.

Why does "conservatism" rely on the theories of Russians and Frenchmen? What's wrong with our own founding fathers? o_0

Maybe if you were to claim that you were abducted by Aliens from another realm and confused our realm with yours, your argument would be more believable. Why do you make such ridiculous statements?

Thoreau's Path led away from Totalitarianism, You seem to be heading towards it in leaps and bounds. Just an observation. ;)

[44] They who know of no purer sources of truth, who have traced up its stream no higher, stand, and wisely stand, by the Bible and the Constitution, and drink at it there with reverence and humanity; but they who behold where it comes trickling into this lake or that pool, gird up their loins once more, and continue their pilgrimage toward its fountainhead.

[45] No man with a genius for legislation has appeared in America. They are rare in the history of the world. There are orators, politicians, and eloquent men, by the thousand; but the speaker has not yet opened his mouth to speak who is capable of settling the much-vexed questions of the day. We love eloquence for its own sake, and not for any truth which it may utter, or any heroism it may inspire. Our legislators have not yet learned the comparative value of free trade and of freed, of union, and of rectitude, to a nation. They have no genius or talent for comparatively humble questions of taxation and finance, commerce and manufactures and agriculture. If we were left solely to the wordy wit of legislators in Congress for our guidance, uncorrected by the seasonable experience and the effectual complaints of the people, America would not long retain her rank among the nations. For eighteen hundred years, though perchance I have no right to say it, the New Testament has been written; yet where is the legislator who has wisdom and practical talent enough to avail himself of the light which it sheds on the science of legislation.

[46] The authority of government, even such as I am willing to submit to—for I will cheerfully obey those who know and can do better than I, and in many things even those who neither know nor can do so well—is still an impure one: to be strictly just, it must have the sanction and consent of the governed. It can have no pure right over my person and property but what I concede to it. The progress from an absolute to a limited monarchy, from a limited monarchy to a democracy, is a progress toward a true respect for the individual. Even the Chinese philosopher was wise enough to regard the individual as the basis of the empire. Is a democracy, such as we know it, the last improvement possible in government? Is it not possible to take a step further towards recognizing and organizing the rights of man? There will never be a really free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived, and treats him accordingly. I please myself with imagining a State at last which can afford to be just to all men, and to treat the individual with respect as a neighbor; which even would not think it inconsistent with its own repose if a few were to lie aloof from it, not meddling with it, nor embraced by it, who fulfilled all the duties of neighbors and fellow men. A State which bore this kind of fruit, and suffered it to drop off as fast as it ripened, would prepare the way for a still more perfect and glorious State, which I have also imagined, but not yet anywhere seen.

Thoreau - Webtext on "Resistance to Civil Government"
 
I think you miss the point Tonto. Value for Value, Live within your means, Celebrate the Individual over the Collective. I don't see Rand telling Anyone to bow down to anyone else, in fact, just the opposite. You need to separate the hype from fact. If anything she was Anti propaganda. Maybe growing up in Post Revolutionary Russia, left it's mark on her. Context Antiderivitive. Check your premise.

If you want to talk about context, then I agree with you. Rand was more than justified to see the many flaws in the old Soviet Russia. However, she took her valid fears and misconstrued them on the American society.

She didn't accurately see society in an honest light. She lived in a fantasy world.

I can't disagree with you more about celebrating the individual over the collective. This philosophy opens up the door to trample on your neighbor for your own personal gain (re: the banking crisis). Man is a gregarious creature, not a creature of rugged individualism.

In fact, we should be asking ourselves the question, "How do we improve the lot of our fellow citizens", but of course this question comes second to, "How do we improve the lot for ourselves." Nonetheless, there is room to ask and answer both questions.
 
I think you miss the point Tonto. Value for Value, Live within your means, Celebrate the Individual over the Collective. I don't see Rand telling Anyone to bow down to anyone else, in fact, just the opposite. You need to separate the hype from fact. If anything she was Anti propaganda. Maybe growing up in Post Revolutionary Russia, left it's mark on her. Context Antiderivitive. Check your premise.

If you want to talk about context, then I agree with you. Rand was more than justified to see the many flaws in the old Soviet Russia. However, she took her valid fears and misconstrued them on the American society.

She didn't accurately see society in an honest light. She lived in a fantasy world.

I can't disagree with you more about celebrating the individual over the collective. This philosophy opens up the door to trample on your neighbor for your own personal gain (re: the banking crisis). Man is a gregarious creature, not a creature of rugged individualism.

In fact, we should be asking ourselves the question, "How do we improve the lot of our fellow citizens", but of course this question comes second to, "How do we improve the lot for ourselves." Nonetheless, there is room to ask and answer both questions.

yes! as Locke put it: "Every one, as he is bound to preserve himself... by the like reason, when his own preservation comes not in competition, ought he, as much as he can, to preserve the rest of mankind"
 
When we have more Takers then Givers who support our Society.

In case the left missed it we are rapidly reaching that threshold. I asked a question not long ago "When will the Poor become the new Rich" what do you suppose our Nations future look's like given where we are today.


Giver and Takers

Republican policy created that condition.

Care to enlighten us?
 
"This disposition to admire, and almost to worship, the rich and powerful, and to despise, or, at least neglect persons of poor and mean conditions... is... the great and most universal cause of the corruption of our moral sentiments." Adam Smith


Jeez this hokum gets tiring, as the wealthy figure out ways to pay little or nothing, as corporations outsource and move off shore to avoid taxes, the right wing tools complain about the poor. One wonders whatever happened to America's dream when the dream only exists for those who can take advantage of our system of government and society.

And the poor pay plenty in taxes, often more than the rich in percentage as they pay every other tax attached to everything under the sun. Think about it for a moment before you conservative wingnuts insert second foot. "Do not waste your time on Social Questions. What is the matter with the poor is Poverty; what is the matter with the rich is Uselessness." George Bernard Shaw

Do any of you buffoons know any rich people? They sure as hell don't create a single job, it is only consumer demand and the sharing of the wealth of a society that keeps us from third world status - A place too close if republicans get their wish.

"If The $5.15 Hourly minimum wage had risen at the same rate as CEO compensation since 1990, it would now stand at $23.03.
A Minimum Wage employee who works 40 hours a week for 51 weeks a year goes home with $10,506 before taxes.
Such A Worker would take 7,000 years to earn Oracle CEO Larry Ellison’s yearly compensation.

In 2005, there were 9 million American millionaires, a 62% increase since 2002.
In 2005, 25.7 million Americans received food stamps, a 49% increase since 2000."

A Look at the Numbers: How the Rich Get Richer | Mother Jones

"Responsible Wealth, a project of United for a Fair Economy, is a network of over 700 business leaders and wealthy individuals in the top 5% of income and/or wealth in the US who use their surprising voice to advocate for fair taxes and corporate accountability. If you're in the top 5% (over $200,000 household income and/or over $1 million net assets) and you care about economic justice, please join Responsible Wealth today!" Responsible Wealth | United for a Fair Economy


"For the mature Orwell, Christianity was no more than a "lie, a semi-conscious device for keeping the rich rich and the poor poor. The poor were to be contented with their poverty, because it would all be made up to them in the world beyond the grave, usually pictured as something mid-way between Kew Gardens and a jeweller's shop. Ten thousand a year for me, two pounds a week for you, but we are all the children of God."" George Orwell
 
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I am not tearing them down. I am tearing your fantasy world down which you believe that the poor are becoming the new rich.

I am sorry to break this to you, but wealth has become more concentrated, but you live in this fantasy world where the uber rich are the most victimized segment of society. They are not.

In fact, their effective tax is around 10% and they have done nothing, except capture our politicians and regulators for their own personal gains.



This exemplifies the fantasy world that you live in. First off, I don't subscribe to this view. Second off, this is blatantly false (re: Eisenhower years).

LOL I take it you have utterly no idea what a Rhetorical question is......

Might I point out for you to "tear up" anything you would have to first understand the point that was being made...clearly you have no idea.

I got your point though.

Too often the more brainwashed left really do believe that the best way to help the poor is to make the rich less rich.

While the free market, capitalist, but humanitarian rightwinger knows all too well that the only way to significantly help the poor is to help the poor EARN enough to become unpoor.

There is a huge difference between GIVING and EARNING in this comparison.

The left doesn't want to help the poor... get over that notion right now. if they did, the would not advocate policies that institutionalize poverty and enslave generations.

The left is for the most part, a bunch of miserable, covetous folk hellbent on bringing the rest of us down to their level.
 
Detroit, Newark and California are perfect examples of Liberal "Fuck the Rich" mentality run amok
Amen to that brother!

Here in Cali we were the worlds 7th largest economy. Right up until the liberal idiots and their mass taxation took hold and turned it into a fucking third world economy. Before that, business and industry couldn't move here fast enough for many reasons. A business, corporate friendly environment being the MAIN reason.

Anytime a freeloading liberal idiot chimes in with their ridiculous, uneducated BS, just throw California and the effects they have had on it squarely in their ignorant god damn faces. I have yet to see one of these loons dispute what their beloved fellow liberal morons have done. They can't dispute it.

Want just one very clear example of the liberal lunacy in this state, beyond their job killing, economy destroying TAXATION?

Try driving a semi older than ten years old into the port of L.A........You can't do it. It's that enviro loon BS. You are turned away. The sheer numbers of local independent, and small trucking companies that have been forced out of business by these whackjobs is just plain sad.

And then of course, the enviro loons have killed the farming industry in the central valley by turning off the water supply to protect a god damn fish. A god damn guppy. A god damn guppy that could be just as easily farm raised.

Lib's are a cancer on our great country. And they must be fought tooth and nail at every turn.

No mercy!
 
wait wait - 150 americans dont pay any taxes???

ok - what income level does this mysterious "other half that doesnt pay" encompass?

is it 20 grand or 30 grand a year? do they not pay their fair "share" of taxes?

50 a year- do they pay no income taxes?

60?

100K - do they pay income taxes???


the implication is that some group of people at some economic level is not doing their fair share = so who is it?

name names dammit - ....or er um numbers...
 
wait wait - 150 americans dont pay any taxes???

ok - what income level does this mysterious "other half that doesnt pay" encompass?

is it 20 grand or 30 grand a year? do they not pay their fair "share" of taxes?

50 a year- do they pay no income taxes?

60?

100K - do they pay income taxes???


the implication is that some group of people at some economic level is not doing their fair share = so who is it?

name names dammit - ....or er um numbers...

I bet I know who 2% of them are...
 
When we have more Takers then Givers who support our Society.

In case the left missed it we are rapidly reaching that threshold. I asked a question not long ago "When will the Poor become the new Rich" what do you suppose our Nations future look's like given where we are today.


Giver and Takers

From your article:

WASHINGTON – As Monday's tax filing deadline nears, ponder this: The super rich pay a lot less taxes than they did a couple of decades ago, and nearly half of U.S. households pay no income taxes at all.
The Internal Revenue Service tracks the tax returns with the 400 highest adjusted gross incomes each year. The average income on those returns in 2007, the latest year for IRS data, was nearly $345 million. Their average federal income tax rate was 17 percent, down from 26 percent in 1992.

---------------------------

Clearly the wealth has been "redistributed".

The newly wealthy have the money to buy mostly Republican politicians who rewrite the laws (similar to the way they rewrite history) to favor those super rich. In fact, they are not above blackmail and hostage taking to force the current president to extend tax cuts simply so millions of unemployed could receive their benefits. We witnessed this just before the last election. I don't understand how the Republican base supports such harmful policies. Apparently they are even less bright than I assumed. My bad.
 
When we have more Takers then Givers who support our Society.

In case the left missed it we are rapidly reaching that threshold. I asked a question not long ago "When will the Poor become the new Rich" what do you suppose our Nations future look's like given where we are today.


Giver and Takers

From your article:

WASHINGTON – As Monday's tax filing deadline nears, ponder this: The super rich pay a lot less taxes than they did a couple of decades ago, and nearly half of U.S. households pay no income taxes at all.
The Internal Revenue Service tracks the tax returns with the 400 highest adjusted gross incomes each year. The average income on those returns in 2007, the latest year for IRS data, was nearly $345 million. Their average federal income tax rate was 17 percent, down from 26 percent in 1992.

---------------------------

Clearly the wealth has been "redistributed".

The newly wealthy have the money to buy mostly Republican politicians who rewrite the laws (similar to the way they rewrite history) to favor those super rich. In fact, they are not above blackmail and hostage taking to force the current president to extend tax cuts simply so millions of unemployed could receive their benefits. We witnessed this just before the last election. I don't understand how the Republican base supports such harmful policies. Apparently they are even less bright than I assumed. My bad.

Yet its amazing how 1% pay 39.5% of all federal tax receipts umm but wait didn't you just say they don't pay anything in taxes? Maybe you missed that part?

Those Evil People
 
When we have more Takers then Givers who support our Society.

In case the left missed it we are rapidly reaching that threshold. I asked a question not long ago "When will the Poor become the new Rich" what do you suppose our Nations future look's like given where we are today.


Giver and Takers

Republican policy created that condition.

No actually it was the democrat controlled congress and senate that attempted to make the former administration look bad and amazingly the only thing they did was to cripple this administration right out of the gate as well as losing the Congress and more then likely the senate on the next go around. But do drop by again

Republican policies lowered taxes to the point where 47% of households pay no taxes.
 
When we have more Takers then Givers who support our Society.

In case the left missed it we are rapidly reaching that threshold. I asked a question not long ago "When will the Poor become the new Rich" what do you suppose our Nations future look's like given where we are today.


Giver and Takers

This poster's other thread today is complaining that taxes are still too high.

Ironically.
 
wait wait

if half of the people eligible to pay taxes really pay no taxes - then how are Cons claiming that we are all being taxed too much???

the conniebot riddles are ever maddening .....

we all pay too much in taxes but apparently only half of us only pay enough in taxes the rest are free loaders

wait anyone have that income level that falls into the " you dont pay income taxes " group yet????
 
When we have more Takers then Givers who support our Society.

In case the left missed it we are rapidly reaching that threshold. I asked a question not long ago "When will the Poor become the new Rich" what do you suppose our Nations future look's like given where we are today.


Giver and Takers
The poor and middle class pay on every dollar of their paychecks in the form of withholding taxes, not to mention sales tax etc.
Many of the wealthy pay a rate of 15% capital gains...less percentage than those above.

when a tax credit results in a check being sent back to them, they recoup some of that, you know, the money that is supposed to pay for their SS and medicare....
 
Republican policy created that condition.

No actually it was the democrat controlled congress and senate that attempted to make the former administration look bad and amazingly the only thing they did was to cripple this administration right out of the gate as well as losing the Congress and more then likely the senate on the next go around. But do drop by again

Republican policies lowered taxes to the point where 47% of households pay no taxes.

so they ARE tax cutters for the middle and lower class?:eusa_eh:
 

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