Haiti - Child Traffickers or Do-Gooders?

[Yurt]

i bet if acorn had done this the far lefty libs would be dancing in the street, rising up to defend them, but good lord, they happen to be christians, the evil doers!

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

So tell me just exactly how did you determine that "IDAHOANS" are such hate mongers Contessa_Sharra?

When exactly did taking children that are in an already existing orphanage the church already maintains over the border on an Island to a resort until another orphanage could be built to accommodate the children so they will be safe become so bad?

Know a whole bunch of folks from there, read news from there, lived on the Idaho Washington border---- DOES THAT COVER IT FOR YOU?


Taking children out of an "alleged" orphanage, with alleged documents, and NOT going through government channels in the midst of this stuff was crazy stupid. And do-gooders do NOT HAVE THE RIGHT in situations like this, unless under the auspices of a certified organization that is willing to cross all the "t"s and dot all the "i"s and maybe some extra ones, and knowing that these children were already in a bad way, and just because they said "resort," I mean even in The D. C. section of the island, renting a whole hotel???? Gimme a fuckin' break, what kind of money does that take?

The church statement is not what they told the news or Haitian police, I guess:

News Update

A ten member church team traveled to Haiti to help rescue children from one or more orphanages that had been devastated in the earthquake on January 12. The children were being taken to an orphanage in the Dominican Republic where they could be cared for and have their medical and emotional needs attended to. Our team was falsely arrested today and we are doing everything we can from this end to clear up the misunderstanding that has occurred in Port au Prince.

Click here to continue to our home page...

CVBC News Update
​

It is odd that their basic website does not mention the connection to the Haitian orphanage.....

New LIfe operations are big enough one would think this church would list it on their site. New Life Advance International | Welcome!

As for the part about them being in the Middle East, I do have some doubts there as I know they are very touchy about Christians proselytizing in Middle Eastern countries. Even their populations that are Christian are Eastern Orthodox for the most part.....

And in situations of these disasters, outsiders don't just go in and start removing what they suppose are unattached children, --for their own good."

They want to do something, they should be in their clearing rocks, helping bury the dead, washing little feet, tending the sick, passing out water, and working WITHIN Haiti.....

The New Life people show on their own site that they "give tech support" to Haitian Crusade Ministries whatever that is...

Haitian children, for the most part really should be cared for in Haiti, and educated there, and helped there, so that Haiti is not robbed of one of its most important resources for the future, its people!​

 

[froggy]

Americans arrested taking children out of Haiti | Reuters

How would americans like it if some other country came here and started taking children back with them.Just because these people are in Haiti volunteering help, doesn't mean they get to bring back a trophy with them.

They were not taking the children off the island. They removed them because it was becoming too dangerous at the orphanage they have been maintaining for years. They were taking them to the Dominican Republic side of the island to a resort for the children's safety until they can get another orphanage built. Roving bands with machetes are all over the place over there. What are the roving bands with machetes doing over there? Stealing kids along with murdering whoever gets in their way and various other forms of mayhem.

Yea, thats there defense story anyway.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

PORT-AU-PRINCE (Reuters) - Haitian police have arrested 10 U.S. citizens caught trying to take 33 children out of the earthquake-stricken country in a suspected illicit adoption scheme, authorities said on Saturday.

The five men and five women were in custody in the capital, Port-au-Prince after their arrests on Friday night. There are fears that traffickers could try to exploit the chaos and turmoil following Haiti's January 12 earthquake quake to engage in illegal adoptions.

One of the suspects, who says she is leader of an Idaho-based charity called New Life Children's Refuge, denied they had done anything wrong.

Americans arrested taking children out of Haiti | Reuters

How would americans like it if some other country came here and started taking children back with them. Just because these people are in Haiti volunteering help, doesn't mean they get to bring back a trophy with them.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, very well said!

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Roving bands with machetes are all over the place over there. What are the roving bands with machetes doing over there? Stealing kids along with murdering whoever gets in their way and various other forms of mayhem.

source??????????????????

 

[RetiredGySgt]

They probably got caught because they weren't trying to hide what they were doing thinking they were doing the right thing and they weren't paying off the cops. The ones who are truly trying to traffic children know how to do it under the radar and would have paid off the cops well in advance.

Nice post but where the fuck do you get your info?

Common sense.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

These are IDAHOANS, and if there is anything Idaho is known for, it is an abiding hatred and negative attitude for minorities, period, one has to wonder at the motivations of that sort, when, if they really wanted to help Haitian children, or Haitians period, they would have been on the ground, at the scene, taking care, doing what the children needed in their own country among people who spoke their own language, and not traumatizing them more....


My thought, if they had a "place" all set up in the D. R., who else was in on the scheme there, what were the pay-offs, and so on, and what kind of money does it take to field an operation like this where there were plans to steal a much larger number of children.

Realizing, of course, that Idaho white people would not get that true history, and whatever it may be, culture and language for these children is important and if they want to really help, then following Haitian government procedures is important.

This smacks of the sort of thing where Samoan children were stolen from their families, and why, all because "white" people think that they of no particular cultural heritage can steal from others, manage their lives, and do "for their own good" when these "managers" have no clue either what would be truly best, or what anyone's, starting with their own lives, own good actually is.

Apparently this is common in foreign adoptions, and the absolute thoughtlessness of some of those involved, including the adoptive parents... India, and how many other places are also involved!

Example: In India a child was stolen, his parents sold everything and did everything in order to find the kidnapped child.

This is the reaction on the part of the Americans who bought this child:

Carney traveled to Wisconsin to meet with Subash/Ashraf's adoptive parents, who for the moment aren’t interested in opening up relations with the boy's biological parents. Responding to a follow-up e-mail, Subash's adoptive father asked Carney to pass on his “condolences” to his adopted son's parents. LINK

​

That is about as nasty as it gets!

Haiti has enough problems without having to deal with predators stealing children.

Once again, some will excuse anything, rationalize anything with "Well, GAWD SAID!"

I think a nice fine of about $50,000 apiece would go a long way to helping these Haitian children, and others, in their own country!

So tell me just exactly how did you determine that "IDAHOANS" are such hate mongers Contessa_Sharra?

When exactly did taking children that are in an already existing orphanage the church already maintains over the border on an Island to a resort until another orphanage could be built to accommodate the children so they will be safe become so bad?

To be fair the Pan handle is full of Hate groups and isolationists. It is a pretty well known fact. However that does not make her post true.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Roving bands with machetes are all over the place over there. What are the roving bands with machetes doing over there? Stealing kids along with murdering whoever gets in their way and various other forms of mayhem.

source??????????????????

Source? You post your accusations with nothing more then, " well cause I know" and then demand a source for a fact most people know about? Give it a rest.

 

[Conspiracist]

PORT-AU-PRINCE (Reuters) - Haitian police have arrested 10 U.S. citizens caught trying to take 33 children out of the earthquake-stricken country in a suspected illicit adoption scheme, authorities said on Saturday.

The five men and five women were in custody in the capital, Port-au-Prince after their arrests on Friday night. There are fears that traffickers could try to exploit the chaos and turmoil following Haiti's January 12 earthquake quake to engage in illegal adoptions.

One of the suspects, who says she is leader of an Idaho-based charity called New Life Children's Refuge, denied they had done anything wrong.

Americans arrested taking children out of Haiti | Reuters

How would americans like it if some other country came here and started taking children back with them.Just because these people are in Haiti volunteering help, doesn't mean they get to bring back a trophy with them.

This is the point I agree with totally. It does appear they had no regard for legalities and felt they had a right to do this. I do believe they had no harmful intentions to the children, but their holier than thou attitude got them in this mess. I do agree with Contessa in the fact these people should be fined in some way and made an example of. Stealing kids is sick business no matter what your intentions are.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Roving bands with machetes are all over the place over there. What are the roving bands with machetes doing over there? Stealing kids along with murdering whoever gets in their way and various other forms of mayhem.

source??????????????????

Source? You post your accusations with nothing more then, " well cause I know" and then demand a source for a fact most people know about? Give it a rest.

Well, umm ooops there goes YOUR "common sense" argument, LMAO.....

And I sourced my information, including looking into this alleged mission's bona fides..... They are bogus!

No website of their own, and no link to anything on the church website..... that is a little shaky.....

Well, umm ooops there goes YOUR "common sense" argument, LMAO.....

as for what "most people know" ppppfffftttt: that is a logical fallacy:

Appeal to Popularity

Explanation

Appeals to popularity suggest that an idea must be true simply because it is widely held. (MOST PEOPLE KNOW...) This is a fallacy because popular opinion can be, and quite often is, mistaken. Hindsight makes this clear: there were times when the majority of the population believed that the Earth is the ... centre of the universe, and that diseases are caused by evil spirits; neither of these ideas was true, despite its popularity.
Example

(1) Most people believe in a god or ‘higher power’.
Therefore:
(2) God, or at least a higher power, must exist.
This argument is an appeal to popularity because it suggests that God must exist based solely on the popularity of belief in God. An atheist could, however, accept the premise of this argument (the claim that belief in God is widespread) but reject its conclusion without inconsistency. http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/appeals/appeal-to-popularity/


​

The reality is that on very many things, "most people DO NOT KNOW," LOL...

 

[Sunshine]

I know a lawyer who has publicized that he will do a pro bono adoption of a Haitian child. He is doing it for the publicity which will be free advertising for him.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

source??????????????????

Source? You post your accusations with nothing more then, " well cause I know" and then demand a source for a fact most people know about? Give it a rest.

Well, umm ooops there goes YOUR "common sense" argument, LMAO.....

And I sourced my information, including looking into this alleged mission's bona fides..... They are bogus!

No website of their own, and no link to anything on the church website..... that is a little shaky.....

Well, umm ooops there goes YOUR "common sense" argument, LMAO.....

as for what "most people know" ppppfffftttt: that is a logical fallacy:

Appeal to Popularity

Explanation

Appeals to popularity suggest that an idea must be true simply because it is widely held. (MOST PEOPLE KNOW...) This is a fallacy because popular opinion can be, and quite often is, mistaken. Hindsight makes this clear: there were times when the majority of the population believed that the Earth is the ... centre of the universe, and that diseases are caused by evil spirits; neither of these ideas was true, despite its popularity.
Example

(1) Most people believe in a god or ‘higher power’.
Therefore:
(2) God, or at least a higher power, must exist.
This argument is an appeal to popularity because it suggests that God must exist based solely on the popularity of belief in God. An atheist could, however, accept the premise of this argument (the claim that belief in God is widespread) but reject its conclusion without inconsistency. http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/appeals/appeal-to-popularity/


​

The reality is that on very many things, "most people DO NOT KNOW," LOL...

Ya cause well there sure haven't been any stories about machete weilding Haitians now has there? Opps there goes YOUR claim. As for Your other claim to Idaho you have absolutely no evidence this group is a hate group yet you spout off about it. Go ahead provide us some proof there Dumb ass. Cause the claim that every person in Idaho is a white Supremacist just is not going to fly dear.

 

[RodISHI]

Roving bands with machetes are all over the place over there. What are the roving bands with machetes doing over there? Stealing kids along with murdering whoever gets in their way and various other forms of mayhem.

source??????????????????

Do the research you stupid twit. As much as you would like to spew your hatred toward people who truly care for these children you most likely don't know shit about them. Put your own money and effort where your loud nasty mouth is and go take care of some of these abused children. While you and people like you try to sling shit, these people were already there, sending their own money over there, their family members and neighbors were already there helping. You know those white Christian people who you proclaim hate blacks that are from Idaho that put themselves at risk already to try to help others.

Haiti?s Child Slave Trade: In the midst of destruction & chaos, what will happen to the children? - Writer's Digest Community

225,000 Haitian Children Forced to Work as Slaves - BV Black Spin

https://www.doctorswithoutborders-usa.org/news/article.cfm?id=2135

Haitian children sold as cheap labourers and prostitutes for little more than £50 | World news | The Guardian

This white woman has been in Haiti taking care of these babies for a long time. Damn she must hate them
http://www.thanksmama.com/v/vspfiles/images/childrenofthepromise.jpg

 

[RodISHI]

I know a lawyer who has publicized that he will do a pro bono adoption of a Haitian child. He is doing it for the publicity which will be free advertising for him.

There was already 380,000 orphans in Haiti prior to this earthquake. They need all the help they can get.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

I know a lawyer who has publicized that he will do a pro bono adoption of a Haitian child. He is doing it for the publicity which will be free advertising for him.

I have some issues with these international adoptions. It is a subject for another thread.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

...Cause the claim that every person in Idaho is a white Supremacist just is not going to fly dear.

To be fair the Pan handle is full of Hate groups and isolationists. It is a pretty well known fact. ...

You did say it.... so make up your mind....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

...Cause the claim that every person in Idaho is a white Supremacist just is not going to fly dear.

To be fair the Pan handle is full of Hate groups and isolationists. It is a pretty well known fact. ...

You did say it.... so make up your mind....

I never claimed the entire State was racist, YOU did. Back it up with some proof if you are going to start demanding proof from others. By the way my comment does not say all of the Panhandle is racist either. Dumb Ass.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Baptist group denies trafficking in Haitian kids
Charity official tells NBC that one girl said she still has parents

NBC News and news services
updated 4:59 a.m. PT, Mon., Feb. 1, 2010


PORT-AU-PRINCE - Ten American Baptists were being held in the Haitian capital Sunday after trying take 33 children out of Haiti at a time of growing fears over possible child trafficking.

The director of the charity now watching the children told NBC News that one child said she still had parents and was only expecting a brief vacation. He added that a policeman believed the group was trying to sell the children for $10,000 each, an allegation denied by the church members.

"As far as we know they would have been, I say it clearly, sold for $10,000 each," said Georg Willeit, who runs the SOS Children's Village outside Port-au-Prince. "That's what one of the policemen told us. Every child was very desperate, hungry, thirsty. They all were in a bad condition."

"One of the elder girls told us, 'I'm not an orphan. I still have my parents,'" he added. "She thought she was going on a summer holiday vacation given by friendly people from America and the Dominican Republic."

The church members, most from Idaho, said they were trying to rescue abandoned and traumatized children. But officials said they lacked the proper documents when they were arrested Friday night in a bus along with children from 2 months to 12 years old who had survived the catastrophic earthquake.

The group said its "Haitian Orphan Rescue Mission" was an effort to help abandoned children by taking them to an orphanage across the border in the Dominican Republic.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35162046/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake/

Now the group has ANOTHER NAME: "Haitian Orphan Rescue Mission"????

The "story" keeps changing....

 

[chanel]

Yes it does.

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti — A lawyer for 10 U.S. missionaries detained in Haiti says parents of the children they're suspected of kidnapping told a judge they freely handed over their kids.

Aviol Fleurant argues the parents' testimony means no law was broken and "we can't talk any more about trafficking of human beings."

Fleurant said Tuesday he's "confident" the judge will dismiss the case.

Haitian Parents Testify They Gave Kids to Americans - The Americas - FOXNews.com

Under those circumstances, I might do the same.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Jailed Haiti missionaries' lawyer quits - UPI.com

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti, Feb. 8 (UPI) -- A Haitian lawyer representing 10 Americans accused of trying to take 33 orphans out the country says he has resigned.


Before he resigned, Coq reportedly said court hearings for the missionaries -- who have been split up into two groups -- were set for Monday and Tuesday. CNN said that while he was trying to get them released, Coq also blamed their leader, Laura Silsby, for their legal troubles.


"Except for Laura -- the group's leader, who took the responsibility to displace these 33 children, fully knowing she didn't have any legal document that would allow her to do so -- the other nine American citizens didn't know anything about what was going on and I remain convinced that they would not have given their accord," Coq told CNN.

5 Americans appear in court in Haiti kidnapping case