Haditha. Not the first. Won't be the last

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by Psychoblues, May 30, 2006.

  1. Psychoblues
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    Psychoblues Senior Member

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    Young soldiers kill people for a living. They are encouraged by their higher ranking officers. They kill for self protection, for the name of some high minded military objective, they kill for each other, some even kill for sport. Let the courts work all this out?

    Young soldiers kill as ordered. Otherwise they fear they may not reach old age. Young soldiers kill and many kill again. Most don't know why, some just like killing. Either way, killing on the battlefield of a war justified or not is just battlefield killing to them.

    Young soldiers die young. They may live on physically for decades. They may spiritually die quite young. There is no confidence in the questions of WARTIME KILLING. Either way, the American populace demonstrates over and over again, WAR VETERANS are not veterans at all unless they are dead. Many are, one way or another.


    Psychoblues


    Psychoblues
     
  2. CSM
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    CSM Senior Member

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    I am really trying to make sense of this post. Despite the generalities, I think I see what you are trying to say. Yes, war is a horrible thing and yes some pay a horrible price and yes, sometimes it appears that citizens of this country are unappreciative of service members contributions (alive or dead).
     
  3. Mariner
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    Mariner Active Member

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    been an army in history that committed no war crimes. The excellent book "Achilles in Vietnam" analyzes the "berserk" state, and old English word that captures the loss of moorings that can lead to very courageous behavior at times, and very wrong behavior at other times, weaving Vietnam Vets' stories with the Iliad.

    Unfortunately, in our current war, our current official justification for being there is a moral one--to bring peace and democracy to a country after removing its dictator from power. Hence the moral aspects of our actions as warriors are much more important than in the average war; it's paramount that we project moral authority.

    Hence the severe damage that Abu Ghraib, Haditha, Bagram (in Afghanistan, where we tortured at least two entirely innocent men to death), and Guantanamo (which even high-ranking military officers are now saying should be closed) to our reputation and purpose.

    Mariner.
     
  4. GotZoom
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    GotZoom Senior Member

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    One day you might post something that actually demonstrates that you know what you are talking about.
     
  5. rtwngAvngr
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    rtwngAvngr Guest

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    Severe damage? Everyone knows abu graib is farce. Thinking this is doing SEVERE DAMAGE to our image is just liberal wishful thinking.
     
  6. dmp
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    dmp Senior Member

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    I'm not dead. I promise.

    :)
     
  7. nukeman
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    nukeman Active Member

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    Unfortunately we can see through the deception and know for a fact what is real. When you have other countries that only hear the bad of the US and how evil we are than I have to say that yes this can be severe damage to our image.. Is it justified damage?? Hell no.... It only takes one incident of bad to overwhelm a year of good.. \

    Look at it this way if something good happens to you, you will tell maybe 5 people but if something bad happens you will tell everyone that listens. So any bad press in the international environment is bad for the US.

    It is a shame that we are held to a higher standard than the rest of the world.. What our government needs to start telling these outraged countries is

    1. Look in the mirror.
    2. Get over it
    3. GO FUCK YOURSELF:dev1:
    4 Try and handle all the evil in the world without the US...
     
  8. Mariner
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    Mariner Active Member

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    Can you explain what you mean that Abu Ghraib is a farce and that other countries should "just get over it"?

    If we're good, we're good because our actions are good. Are you arguing that we did nothing wrong at Abu Ghraib, or that other should be able to read our minds and see that we are "good" despite our actions to the contrary?

    Or are you arguing that our actions at Abu Ghraib are so small compared to all the good we do that they should just be ignored?

    If Americans were the victims of similar treatment by any other countryor entity in the world, would you be similarly forgiving? If your relatives were victims of such behavior, would you say, "oh, that was just a farce," or "get over it"? I very much doubt it.

    IN any case, you must know you're in a pretty small minority in your opinions--the vast majority of Americans, including military people and political leaders of both parties, have condemned Abu Ghraib and acknowledged that it stained our reputation permanently and did untold damage to the moral underpinnings of our occupation of Iraq.

    Mariner.
     
  9. 5stringJeff
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    5stringJeff Senior Member

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    The Jews did it, right?
     
  10. Annie
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    Annie Diamond Member

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    I wouldn't call it a 'farce', but not atrocities either. Too much was made of the incidents, those that perpetrated them should be and were punished. Of course with what the media did, other than chopping off their heads, no punishment would have been enough.
    'We' or even 'our military' did not perform those acts. A few people that never should have been working in a prison; several had already been disciplined in civilian jails for similar misdeeds; were the ones who did those acts. If blame should be shared with 'higher ups' it's that those abuses of earlier instances were not noted and the people removed from those positions.
    We have been and we did 'get over it' with punishments meted out.

    http://history.acusd.edu/gen/st/~ehimchak/death_march.html

    As I said, there is no quibbling that they deserved punishment, especially those that used dogs, but too much was made of it, with blanket condemnation of the military.
     

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